let's start a heated argument

[wyohandi]

So for this "one rifle" deal, I don't want it to be "substantially" bigger than needed 80% of the time, yet big enough for all NA game.
Yes, Wyohandi, your round actualy will fill that bill nicely. I have a rifle that for me at least is even better, even though I own way too many rifles & will not use just one. One of my considerations is to be able to hand my guns down to my 3 boys & I am leaning more toward my main rifles being able to shoot factory rounds & esp. rounds that will always be available. For my use that rifle hands down would be my Win Mod. 70 30-06AI. It started off as a featherwt. & then a Brown Pre. stock was added. Due to the fact that I can seat a 180 out pretty far, coupled with the AI case I will roughly equal the 300SAUM velocities, in fact the SAUM & 30-06AI case cap. is a dead heat. Yet I can shoot fact ammo, yet with my loads with a 180 at 2,950 it is a flat shooter indeed.

See great minds think alike           ( that was supposed to be a quote?^^)

[Mike Britton]

As far as I'm concerned, my '03-A3 sporter in .30-06 will do everything I need from coyote on up.
If I have access to sabots, I might be able to use it for small game at close ranges.
And I can probably buy ammo at the drug store, it's  so popular. Mike

[Mike Britton]

Wyohandi !
You can't have too many rifles!!!

[wyohandi]

Wyohandi !
You can't have too many rifles!!!

I keep telling the wife that.

[stimpylu32]

Being a Tradesman , I have found that 1 tool will not do every job , if all your hunting is Deer and Elk then you have made a good choice , I would even consider using it for Moose and Black Bears with  the right bullet and shot placement .

For big Brown Bears , your under gunned , any true hunter will use the proper weapon to give a quick , effective kill to the game that they hunt .

So the question is will one gun do it all  --- never .

just my take on the whole thing .

stimpy

[Mike Britton]

My wife says "You can have too many guns, or guitars, or hot rods, but you can never have enough"

[Glanceblamm]

One rifle and I have to get rid of the others

I would keep my .50 cal black powder rifle and the 175gr patched ball for anything from Squirrels (yeah I head shoot em) to the whitetail deer. The larger stuff could be taken with the 370gr conical maxi-balls.
My .50 cal qualifies as a medium bore because it is one half of 100 ....or dare you argue?

[beemanbeme]

Everytime I see one of these "if you can only have one gun" things, I want to lie down and put a cold rag on my head.  But I'll approach it this way: When I was fishing bass tournies, conventional wisdom was to rig for the heaviest fish you hoped to catch in the worst conditions you might encounter.
 
So when you start talking about deer "and up", even in the new world, you are talking about a pretty big slice of stuff.  Some of which can turn you into long, brown tubes, packed in with berry seeds and alder twigs.  Others can do their imitation of Fred Astaire on you while they're waiting to keel over.  So you can forget about the pop guns that drive a light for calibre boutique bullet at warp speeds when Ole Griz comes calling. Those book numbers don't mean a thing to him 'cause he can't read.  The combo may send him to heaven, but there's a good chance you'll beat him there.

IMO, In the "one gun only" scenario, the rifle has to start at 30 calibre. 30-06 minimum. With a heavy for calibre bullet.  If I could only have one rifle and wanted to hunt the entire North America and walk unafraid, I would have as a minimum, a 300WM loaded with a 200gr bullet.
 

[gstewart44]

Marlin 1895 in 45-70 slicked up by Brockman.    6 rounds in the tube.  For everything on North American continent.   Easy to carry.   Ammo available everywhere.  Standard load for venison.  Hotrod loads from Garrett for the BigNNasty stuff.   I like mine. 

[LONGTOM]

Dm is probably right.

All I can say is just don't stand in front of me when I have in my hands a "GUN THAT ALMOST WORKS"
You might get a suprise!


LONGTOM

[AtlLaw]

well, I believe I did argue those were med. range rounds.

Medium range?  MEDIUM RANGE!!  You classify 180 gr. bullets driven at 3000 fps from the 338/06 and 2800 fps from the 35 Whelen MEDIUM range loads!     Well, there's obviously no reasoning with you.  You ignore published ballistics to tout your own pet wildcat...  And we haven't even gotten into bullet diameter!   

<sigh>  I'm sorry, I can't go on with this...  I'd like to help out wyohandi and hate to disappoint him, but as much as I try I can't get into this heated discussion thing.   I guess I just respect other people's opinions to much and am not so locked int my own preferences that I can't appreciate another's point of view.    Sorry Wyo, I tried Pal, I just don't have it in me to argue, especially heatedly.     Well, actually I do... but like I said before, when I do I'm being paid for it!   

[SHOOTALL]

300 WIN MAG .
why- like it ! ammo is aval. most places , selection of ammo is good , easy to shoot .
whats not to like ?

[SHOOTALL]

AtlLaw, know what it feels like !

[AtlLaw]

300 WIN MAG .
whats not to like ?

Okay, I'll buy that.  Matter of fact the only "Belted Magnum" I own is a 300 WinMag.  Purty thing in a Super Grade stock.     It is also the rifle that got me rethinking my reloading goals back in the day.  When minimum loads drove the same bullet at a velocity I'd been driving myself crazy trying to achieve with an 0ught 6, a light finally dawned...   

[SHOOTALL]

yea i got an 06 that saw some pressure in the safe also ! and marks on the bottom of the bolt from having to TAP it with a wood block to get it open .

[LONGTOM]

This will most likely be my last post on this subject.
I will let the target do the rest of my talking.
This was shoot today:

30 yards with a extra full turkey choke
ammo was:
WIN 150 gr POWER POINT PLUS
12 ga
REM #8 low brass
REM #4 BUCK 3" mag

2 shots 30-30
1 shot each shotgun
The Bs are marked with a black marker.

The buck did shoot a little low and to the right, still not bad for the choke used!
The # 8s and the 30-30 speak for themselves!
All shots were aimed/pointed to the same spot on the target.
I hope this comes through.





LONGTOM

[SHOOTALL]

its talking . whats it saying ?

[AtlLaw]

whats it saying ?

Sounds like a hymn!
"holey, holey, holey"

[SHOOTALL]

witty today !
middle east humor ?

[Drilling Man]

  Well, here's a target from my Valmet 412 in 30-06... 5 shots at 100 yards AND i took the scope off and returned it after each shot. (using the 412 Valmet scope mount)



  As far as the shot bbl, or slugs being regulated spot on...  They are spot on because the owner of the 412 can easily regulate the rifle bbl. with "any" factory or hand load to shoot to the shot bbl... includeing to where the slugs hit.

  Also, my 412 has double triggers, so there's an instant choise of shot or rifle bbl...

  Then there's the fact that i can buy O/U 12 or 20 guage bbls, double rifle bbls or other combo bbls for my action...   

  Anyway, i many years ago i use to use those Savages, and i'm glad you like yours...

  DM

[wyohandi]

well, I believe I did argue those were med. range rounds.

Medium range?  MEDIUM RANGE!!  You classify 180 gr. bullets driven at 3000 fps from the 338/06 and 2800 fps from the 35 Whelen MEDIUM range loads!     Well, there's obviously no reasoning with you.  You ignore published ballistics to tout your own pet wildcat...  And we haven't even gotten into bullet diameter!   

Now I'm gonna pick on you since your the only one pretending to get upset..   (I'm really not this big an a$$)
Unless your shooting a premium bullet the 180gr in 338 and 35 cal. are for light game, a 30cal. 150gr bullet has the same sectional density
so does a 243 with a 100gr bullet. If I was shooting a 338/06 it would have at least a 200gr bullet my Nosler manual says 2700FPS max.
the 35Whelen would have 220gr bullet 2500FPS max. according to the book. (I believe the Nosler manual is a Published source)
But pick whatever load you need to to pad the facts.
Where I live and hunt 300-400yds is medium range (clear that up) if its under 150-200yds its in pistol range,under 75yds is bow range.
AND my 300SAUM isn't a wildcat, Factory load sell em at Wal-mart, how about those 338/06's? I don't even see them in the Cabelas catalog.
Bullet diameter?? well if 3/100ths of an inch are gonna make or break the shot your cutting it pretty close.
   There is my argument sir, I believe my facts are straight. The defense rests.    Pleasure arguing my case with you

The wyo. big game draw results came out today! 13yr old daughter got a moose AND an elk tag I only got an elk tag

[lrs]

I've used my FN Browning 30-06 on whitetails, hogs and elk.  All have been clean 1 shot kills.  If we are staying in the lower 48, I'd be just fine with this as my "one" rifle.  If I were to be in Montana or someplace where I might encounter a grizzly, I'd just go with a 200 gr partition.

[beemanbeme]

Uh Oh, another arm chair Great White Hunter.  But  Mr Griz, according to the book, my whiz, bang .xxx generates the same energy with a super hot boutique bullet as a .300 H&H with a fat and slow bullet. Don'tchaknow.  That's why the .243 is the weapon of choice of the folks doing Cape Buffalo culling.
A big, fat bullet makes a bigger hole and it is rumbling along inside the animal creating trauma longer and when it exits, it leaves a big hole from which the life's blood gushes.   (yes Virginia, kinetic energy is a myth created to sell rifles to people that can't hunt nor shoot)

"Medium range"?? are you hunting or sniping? 

[wyohandi]

Uh Oh, another arm chair Great White Hunter.  But  Mr Griz, according to the book, my whiz, bang .xxx generates the same energy with a super hot boutique bullet as a .300 H&H with a fat and slow bullet. Don'tchaknow.  That's why the .243 is the weapon of choice of the folks doing Cape Buffalo culling.
A big, fat bullet makes a bigger hole and it is rumbling along inside the animal creating trauma longer and when it exits, it leaves a big hole from which the life's blood gushes.   (yes Virginia, kinetic energy is a myth created to sell rifles to people that can't hunt nor shoot)

"Medium range"?? are you hunting or sniping? 

My 300RSAUM is the SAME gun as your 300H&H same fat and slow bullet just a couple hundred years younger look it up.

And actually 500yds is medium range according to the instructors at sniper school.
3years Army sniper, Longest CONFIRMED kill  just shy of one mile, with a 50BMG of course.

Sorry to all the truly knowlegable people on this site I know I'm still a wet behind the ears pup
but I ain't just talkin otta my a$$ when it comes to guns or ballistics.

[beemanbeme]

My question stands, are you hunting or sniping??  Has anyone come back from Afghanistan that was just a plain, old grunt?  Is everybody a sniper?  Maybe to your sniper instructor with a lot of specialized eq and nothing to do 24/7 but practice, practice, practice whilst drawing a gov'ment paycheck, a 500 yard shot is a medium shot but to the guys that pull old trusty rusty out of the closet with a 3x9 mounted on it, 500 yards ain't no medium shot.  And I don't care how many "comfirmed kills" your sniper instructor has made at 1 mile with a big 50.  You're talking apples and oranges.

The comments about the whiz bangs weren't directed at the 30 ultras. But I admit to being a luddite.

[AtlLaw]

3years Army sniper, Longest CONFIRMED kill  just shy of one mile, with a 50BMG of course.

Okay FNG...
11 years Army Infantry/Aviation, last CONFIRMED kill just shy of 6 feet, with an M16A1 of course.   

Back in the day we did things a little bit more up close and personal!  Kinda like it should be in BG hunting   

[wyohandi]

My question stands, are you hunting or sniping??  Has anyone come back from Afghanistan that was just a plain, old grunt?  Is everybody a sniper?  Maybe to your sniper instructor with a lot of specialized eq and nothing to do 24/7 but practice, practice, practice whilst drawing a gov'ment paycheck, a 500 yard shot is a medium shot but to the guys that pull old trusty rusty out of the closet with a 3x9 mounted on it, 500 yards ain't no medium shot.  And I don't care how many "comfirmed kills" your sniper instructor has made at 1 mile with a big 50.  You're talking apples and oranges.

The comments about the whiz bangs weren't directed at the 30 ultras. But I admit to being a luddite.

Sorry I let this thread stray, this is my final post on it.
Sniping or hunting? Whatever it takes to do the job. Have shot antelope at well over 500yds, the last elk I shot had powderburns ;
No everyones not a sniper. But you would probably be impressed by the way alot of " just plain ol grunts" can shoot
Specialized equip is VERY spendy...probably why I don't have any. Everyone should "practice,practice,practice"
That Govt paycheck ain't much. I make more now in 4 days than I made a month in service of our country.
Old rusty is a factory Remington with a 4-12x scope and no for the average hunter who shoots 10rds a year if they're lucky
500yds isn't medium range.
Comparing the 50 to about anything isn't apples to oranges, it is BB's to bowling balls

AtlLaw

Sorry if I ruffled feathers, shouldn't have brought it up. Trying to prove maybe I knew something about shooting

[AtlLaw]

Sorry if I ruffled feathers,

You didn't ruffle my feathers Brother; that's just about impossible to do.     And you don't have to "prove" anything to anybody!  If somebody doesn't like what you post, that's their right, but you have as much right to your opinion as they do theirs.  Opinions are like butt holes, everybody has one and most stink.  But keep an open mind and remember, there's not much worth getting in a pissing contest over!  However, you are correct in that we do usually keep our experiences between ourselves.     For not doing so I apologise to you.

[roper]

I"ve been looking for that one caliber does all for a long time just too many good calibers out there.  Problem you have with cases like the Rem or Win short mag case is capacity for the heavier bullets if you look at the tops load with 220gr bullets in a 30-06 and 300RSAUM about 100/150fps diffference and Hornady sells a mag load for the 30-06 with 180gr bullets @ 2900fps and thats about what the Rem short mag gets.   

I don't own a 300RSAUM rifle so be hard for me to talk in real world shooting expericence other than what I see in the reloading manuals I did look at the Rem SAUM case but opt to build a 300WSM seemed like the WSM took appr 2grs more powder for appr 100fps more velocity when comparing same powders/bullets.

[beemanbeme]

I posted in another thread that I wouldn't sell my 300WM to buy one of the shorties but if I was just starting out, I'd give them a good look before deciding.  In the book, they do very well with the top end bullets --as far as I'm concerned, you don't buy a .300 to shoot 150gr bullets-- compared to the full sized cartridges so my only question would be magazine length.

It might surprise some of these young bucks that some of us old farts have scratched out a couple of possibles at 500 yards. With peep sights. On a lucky day, of course.   Folks differ but I don't get my jollies shooting at a game animal at 500 yards.  I hunted WY 15 straight years, antelope, mulies, and elk and, with one exception, never made a shot of 300 yards.