let's start a heated argument

[nomosendero]

Indeed, diff. strokes for diff. folks.

[Drilling Man]

Folks differ but I don't get my jollies shooting at a game animal at 500 yards.

  Me either, i've never been so lazy or had the lack of skills, that i couldn't stalk closer to be sure to make a humane kill.

  DM

[nomosendero]

Folks differ but I don't get my jollies shooting at a game animal at 500 yards.

  Me either, i've never been so lazy or had the lack of skills, that i couldn't stalk closer to be sure to make a humane kill.

  DM

I have probably taken as many Whitetails up close & personal with a bow as most on this forum, so if I have the "skills" to harvest an animal
over 300 yards With a rifle & I want to, I will. Lazy has nothing to do with it, you have to go get the animal after you shoot it, whether 10 yards or 500.

I could hunt WY. with my bow & never shoot far & take some animals, that's a funtion of the amt of time I have to hunt & being content with taking those animals. I have hunted many places in WY. that has a lot of sage with draws & terrain features & you could shoot with a rifle
Mule Deer & Antelope inside of 250-300 yards in every situation we encountered.

But the ranch I hunt on now in WY. has a lot of short grass & a close stalk just isn't possible in some cases. So just saying we hunt in WY, MT or somewhere & you don't have to shoot long because I don't have to where I hunt is not a well thought out statement. If my shot needs to be longer than some on this forum think it should be, but in a range where I can make a humane shot, well tough I guess. I am not talking about the yardages like some long range forums discuss, rather very doable shots for the equipment I use, which sure aren't combo guns.
But if a combo gun works for your hunting, great & should be discussed. On the other hand, they don't work for me & we are talking about one of the primary reasons here, no problem & that can be discussed without name calling.

We have an active member here, Sourdough who hunts in the Artic & he shoots animals on a regular basis quite a bit further out than I do.
But HIS conditions is snow with no real opportunity to get closer. Do you want to call him "lazy" too because he can consistantly
reach out further than one of the "combo" guns humanely can. Does he need more "skills" too?

I have many faults, no doubt, but lazy would not be one of them. You would agree if you knew me.

[Davemuzz]

I have many faults, no doubt, but lazy would not be one of them. You would agree if you knew me.

I must say I have had many "on-line discussions" with Mr. Nomo. I'm pretty good at "sniffing out" people who are full of themselves or of cow dung. Ethics mean a lot to me.

That being said, from the post I've read of Nomo's and in my sometimes quality debates with him, I will say that "lazy" is not one of the words that should be used to describe him. I would say he is what he says he is, and although I have never met him, I would find it fascinating to hunt with him and I would say he would be a man of ethics.

MHO

Dave

[nomosendero]

I trully appreciate that!!

[WyoStillhunter]

My Rem. 700 Classic .35 Whelen with Weaver K2.5 is all I need for deer and on up.  I hunt Wyoming and Missouri.  Typical shots for me are well under 200 yards and often in the 50 -75 yd. range.  In fact, I wouldn't really be giving up much if I were limited to my Marlin 444S as long as I put that K2.5 on it.

[beemanbeme]

To keep this from roaming off into another one of those raging "I can shoot further than you can, so neener, neener, neener" exchanges of lotsa heat and not light is why I carefully said, "folks differ".  I was glad, Nomo, to see that your creds hadn't changed from the last several times I read them.

[nomosendero]

No need to change, it is what it is. Naw, we aren't going to let it turn into that, not for long at least, to each his own. 

[SHOOTALL]

I was reading an article on sniper school ( no I am not a sniper ) anyway they shoot to 2000 yards no not all are good at it but most can do it with the tools they have . Then there was the mention that the AR was good to 300 yards ( no cut to the weapon intended ) and most snipers today set up for 800 plus shots ( because of open land with out cover ) . That leaves 200 to 800 yards open in alot of cases , this has caused the squard marksman position to become more important . More traning is being given these men and women . Anyway it seems they are making a big difference with 308's anf 300 win. mags.
The idea that stood out was that as tools get better we extend our range . I have read where snipers in the not to distance pass spent much time getting close so the shot was high % , if that ment crawling to with in 200 yards and spending days to get there and risk not getting out that's what they did . If the same mission can happen with the same % of success at a 1000 yards whats the problem ?
And if this tech. dosen't find its way into the game fields we are slacking .

[LONGTOM]

I haven't posted in this forum for a while because of some of the hatred shown by a few in an other wise reasonable discussion about everyones one gun for all needs. I also have to admit that I was one of the ones starting to get caught up in it. That being said, with the distances being stated, the referal to "COMBO GUN" most definitely is not angled towards me or mine. Not a meager 30-30 over 12ga. But if I had a combo in a caliber that could do the job at those ranges and I was good enough with it to make the shoot in safety then I would do so.

I did it again.
It was one gun for deer on up, not one gun for all needs!
SORRY

LONGTOM

[yooper77]

I would use my Weatherby Mark V, in 30-06 Springfield w/ Leupold 3-9x40mm VX-II scope.  It can take everything that walks the planet.  100 to 200 grain bullets.  Accurate, cheap and always reliable.  Factory ammo available everywhere if needed in a pinch.

yooper77

[AtlLaw]

some of the hatred shown by a few
LONGTOM

Geeeese LT!  Hatred is a pretty strong word and I really didn't think it applies.  Well, the second post did call Wy an "idiot" but that was in fun, giving him what he asked for, just like the bulk of the posts in the thread.  I thought your target was pretty neat myself, but I've always liked combo guns.

[LONGTOM]

You may be right ATLAW!
I may have been out of line.
I just don't see where bashing something that someone else may like simply because you don't like it or may have had a bad experience with. Personally I do not care for the looks of a VALMIT, but I don't knock it. How could I? I have never owned or even shoot one. I just don't like the barrels being separated like they are. I can see where they would be easy to regulate. The same goes for some of the other calibers mentioned. I am sure that their owners like them. I can't comment on the ones I have never tried.
The target I posted was simply to show that not all combos shoot way out of line.
Contrary to belief a fixed barrel combo in shootgun & rifle can be regulated by means of an off set choke, which I have had done in the past with great results.
Oh well, like I think I read somewhere in one of the posts "DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS".
That is what sell more guns and I am all for that!!!
Thanks for helping to keep me in line.


LONGTOM

[nomosendero]

You may be right ATLAW!
I may have been out of line.
I just don't see where bashing something that someone else may like simply because you don't like it or may have had a bad experience with. Personally I do not care for the looks of a VALMIT, but I don't knock it. How could I? I have never owned or even shoot one. I just don't like the barrels being separated like they are. I can see where they would be easy to regulate. The same goes for some of the other calibers mentioned. I am sure that their owners like them. I can't comment on the ones I have never tried.
The target I posted was simply to show that not all combos shoot way out of line.
Contrary to belief a fixed barrel combo in shootgun & rifle can be regulated by means of an off set choke, which I have had done in the past with great results.
Oh well, like I think I read somewhere in one of the posts "DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS".
That is what sell more guns and I am all for that!!!
Thanks for helping to keep me in line.



LONGTOM

In case it applies to me & if it does, no problem in being specific, nothing to be gained with beating around the bush.

Bashing something that someone else may like? Sure about that? Actually I like combo guns OK & have hunted with them some as a kid in the AR
hills close to where I presently reside. They were a take advantage of every opportunity gun. Birds to Deer & Hogs or whatever, in those days we hunted everything at the same time, with the idea to bring something home that Mom would cook & from one day to the next. We used iron sights,
1X & at most the Weaver 1x3, with the idea when we used scopes was to set on 1X for birds & turn up to 3 for a squirrel or Deer. They are great survival tools & if TSHTF they are still viable for that. We could not afford a Valmet, availabe or not in those days, but if we could have, the application would have been the same for us. And you are right, Long Tom, there was no reference to you or your weapon at all. No, I don't think
a combo was in mind when the original question was asked, but that's cool too.

I said the following "very doable shots for the equipment I am using, which sure aren't combo guns". Well, Longtom that was a little more brazen
than necessary & I apologize for that, but I should have made a more gentle point that this type of thing would not be in the normal realm of a combo rifle, which does not make the combo bad, just not suitable for the application. And frankly they aren't, I demand a totally diff. trigger, optics that would make zero sense on a combo & as an all round rifle for Deer & up for all normal ranges it wou't cut it for me. If they fit other folks style of hunting, then why not use it, but I have some heads on the wall that would NOT have occured with one of those, period. Yesterday I said it was good to state your opionion if that gun is your thing & we can do that without name calling, go back and look. So if you are going to comment on another post please read the whole message

Good day Sir!

[AtlLaw]

Gee!  I wrote a reply and it didn't get posted!     Let me try again...
Back in the late 50's I had a M24 in 22/410.  Don't remember much except I liked it.  I often thought about getting another, especially when they came out with HP rifle barrels and larger bore shotgun barrels.  But I never did.  I also admired the Valmit as a quality firearm, but the look turned me off.  Now that's strange since I have a Remington 3200 which also has seperated barrels and I think it looks good.  But to me a double rifle must be a SxS and I have never seen one that didn't make my breath come in gasps!  Like you said, "different strokes for different folks."  And that's in all things!  But I still think you target is neat!   

[nomosendero]

Late 50's  Daaaang, your older than me!!

[LONGTOM]

to nomosendero:

I really didn't mean to point this at you, although I guess it did come off that way.
For that I do apologize!
I guess I should also apologize to drilling man which really was where I was going with this "COMBO"
stuff.
I guess it was his choice of words that kind of hit me wrong. My fault!
I'm not really hung up on the model 24, just didn't care to much for the "AIM OVER THERE TO HIT OVER HERE" and the "ALMOST WORKS".
That was the point of the target.
Anyway, to all who have read these posts I DO APOLOGIZE!
This is to good of a place to let words cause riffs.


LONGTOM

[nomosendero]

to nomosendero:

I really didn't mean to point this at you, although I guess it did come off that way.
For that I do apologize!
I guess I should also apologize to drilling man which really was where I was going with this "COMBO"
stuff.
I guess it was his choice of words that kind of hit me wrong. My fault!
I'm not really hung up on the model 24, just didn't care to much for the "AIM OVER THERE TO HIT OVER HERE" and the "ALMOST WORKS".
That was the point of the target.
Anyway, to all who have read these posts I DO APOLOGIZE!
This is to good of a place to let words cause riffs.


LONGTOM

Longtom, to me there is nothing to apologize for. I should have been more clear to start with, my fault.

[wyohandi]

I was reading an article on sniper school ( no I am not a sniper ) anyway they shoot to 2000 yards no not all are good at it but most can do it with the tools they have . Then there was the mention that the AR was good to 300 yards ( no cut to the weapon intended ) and most snipers today set up for 800 plus shots ( because of open land with out cover ) . That leaves 200 to 800 yards open in alot of cases , this has caused the squard marksman position to become more important . More traning is being given these men and women . Anyway it seems they are making a big difference with 308's anf 300 win. mags.
The idea that stood out was that as tools get better we extend our range . I have read where snipers in the not to distance pass spent much time getting close so the shot was high % , if that ment crawling to with in 200 yards and spending days to get there and risk not getting out that's what they did . If the same mission can happen with the same % of success at a 1000 yards whats the problem ?
And if this tech. dosen't find its way into the game fields we are slacking .

Thank you sir, I am glad to see not everyone is not so set in their ways they can't accept change.

[nomosendero]

Wyohandi, I am interested to see how your rifle does at the range.

[beemanbeme]

"Aim over there to hit over here"  All my rifles shoot like that.  Ain't you pups never heard of Kentucky windage?    I've even got a "drop chart" taped on the stocks like them long range guys do. Only mine sez stuff like: "6" left 4" high" which is how much it shoots off.  Sometimes, when the deer is runnin', it's hard to read and shoot at the same time.

[Drilling Man]

to nomosendero:

I really didn't mean to point this at you, although I guess it did come off that way.
For that I do apologize!
I guess I should also apologize to drilling man which really was where I was going with this "COMBO"
stuff.
I guess it was his choice of words that kind of hit me wrong. My fault!
I'm not really hung up on the model 24, just didn't care to much for the "AIM OVER THERE TO HIT OVER HERE" and the "ALMOST WORKS".
That was the point of the target.
Anyway, to all who have read these posts I DO APOLOGIZE!
This is to good of a place to let words cause riffs.


LONGTOM

  I also NEVER ment to point anything at nomosendero and i was NOT making a personal attack at you either...  I've now read all of the post in this thread, and i still don't see how mine was taken for a personal attack on him.

  You do NOT owe me an appology, as all i did in all of my post is state my personal opinion and that's all.  You stated yours and i see nothing wrong with that at all...

  When i was a kid, my dad bought one of those Savages.  I shot my first flushed rooster with it, along with a LOT of small game.  It was also the gun dad let us use to shoot starlings, and sparrows...  When i got older, i bought a few of them as i've always liked combo guns, as did dad.  I was trying to get one that the bbls shot together...

  The point i was making before is, i want my guns to shoot to the sights...and that means both bbls...  I never owned a Savage combo that did it, and 99% don't...  That doesn't mean that you can't like yours, it just means they aren't for me. 

  I also wanted something with more poop (30-06) than they put in a Savage combo, and when the 2400's came out i bought one.  I saw the quality of Valmets in those 2400's, and that led me to the 412's as i couldn't afford what i really wanted.. (a drilling)

  So, i wish everyone would STOP taking everything so personal, and see everyones post for what they REALLY are... just "personal opinions" !!

  I'm glad folks like different guns, as that's what makes the world go around!!

  DM

[Glanceblamm]

AtlLaw Wrote:w

Like you said, "different strokes for different folks." 

Drilling Man Wrote:

I'm glad folks like different guns, as that's what makes the world go around!!

Good bottom lines and for myself, will put most of the empathis into (matching the hatch) or in other words working with terrain you have along with the firearms that are legal.
Here in IL for instance, the centerfire rifle is illegal for deer hunting so one must use either a shotgun or a black powder rifle and stay within the appropriate ranges. I have to admit
That an inline with a good scope that will blast a powerbelt or saybo type bullet out of the bore at 2,100fps is getting wicked as you can add another 100yds to what can be achieved
With the shotgun. while I dont have anything at all against these guys and the inline does sound attractive, I have done a complete about face and use those pokey old large caliber
Revolvers for the deer for five years running now.

[LONGTOM]

Sounds good to me.
As DM said lets "STOP taking everything so personal".
I will start with me from now on!


LONGTOM

[wyohandi]

Wyohandi, I am interested to see how your rifle does at the range.

If I get any time off in the near future I want to get some shooting in. I will try to post some pictures
if I can figure out how. (I'll ask my 13yr old she'll know how)
I don't have any old targets laying around right now.
I want to put a video on here one of these days? because I can type anything I want, would like
to be able to show you guys.

[nomosendero]

DM, Thanks for the post

[wyohandi]

sorry I have dial-up tried for 20mins. to get pictures to load
gave up
I'll try from work tommorow

[LONGTOM]

to WYO:

I to have dial up, but if you use MY HOSTED PICS from here on GB it doesn't take very long at all.
You upload them to their site and then you can add them to your post which only takes a few seconds once they are on their site. If you haven't already, check it out.


LONGTOM

[soli]

 ;)I would go with a 22LR,auto or bolt.Will kill any thing I would go after,Fly to Bear.

[nomosendero]

;)I would go with a 22LR,auto or bolt.Will kill any thing I would go after,Fly to Bear.

I don't know, we have some pretty big flies!