Author Topic: Bergara 300 Win Mag going back. Has this happened to anyone else? (Read 4159 times)

JerryKo · « **on:** June 24, 2008, 03:28:23 PM »

I haven't seen any recent posts about Bergara barrels for the Encore, so I decided to share, my unfortunate experience.

I was one the fence about them when one day I noticed 4 Bergara barrels on the clearance rack at my local shop. At $168.98 I figured I couldn't go wrong. I picked the 26" 300 Win Mag over the 28" fluted 30-06. The first couple of outings the barrel was really starting to show promise. I was in the breaking in phase with cleaning and waiting between shots. It was hanging around MOA with just a starting load and 130gr SSP I also got on clearance. After the 40th shot (10 round string) I finished this session and took the barrel home for a good cleaning. I noticed a fair amount of play up and down when the action was closed. I removed the barrel and found that the "locking lugs" had a gap between the top of lugs and bottom of bore. I did notice some flyers at this session, but figured it was the affects of 10 rounds. I now believe it was the lugs causing my flyers. I contacted my dealer, and he said he will refund my money and return the barrel. But I really liked that barrel, I may ask for a replacement, but first wanted to see if anyone else has experienced this with either a TC barrel or Bergara.

Thanks for the help.

JerryKo · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2008, 04:30:34 PM »

I had a thought after posting. I have used gauge feelers before as shims with a handi rifle. I found that with a .007" shim wedged below the locking lug lock up is tight, but had to lube with One Shot dry lube to allow lugs to still move freely in and out. Still waiting to see if this is a common problem. I may continue shooting a while just to see. But I'll also see if I can have replaced if no further loosening occurs.

Jerry

SLAVAGE · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2008, 07:28:18 AM »

send it back if thers that kinda play in it its not worth the hassle or trouble.. especialy if its new i would take it back to the dealer have him send it back

Dave

JerryKo · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2008, 03:17:56 PM »

Thanks Slavage, My dealer said he will replace with a blued TC 300 Win Mag barrel. Thats about a $70 difference. I may ask to pay the remaining difference and make it a SS one if possible. Thats what the Bergara was.

Jerry

Davemuzz · « **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2008, 03:50:59 PM »

If your dealer is going to replace it with a T\C barrel, I would jump all over that. IMHO...and I've stated this on another post in a heated debate, you get what you pay for and I would never buy one of these Bergara's.

Dave

30-06man · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2008, 05:50:22 PM »

Nope haven't heard this one. CVA stopped having the 300win for their Optima Elite because of Quality Control issues but I have a 308 Bergara Barrel for my Encore and it shot 1.5 inches at 100 yards with 165 Federal Fusions. It hasn't been to the range after that one box of ammo. I need to get it out and work up loads for it. I would contact Bergara for a replacement. On the CVA forum a member had to return one and he got the barrel replaced fast and I believe with an upgrade. I here they have good CS. The TC barrel is still an option and I would opt for the free blued one if you don't return it to Bergara.

SLAVAGE · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2008, 03:52:11 PM »

jerr
how did it work out you end up geting the stainless??
i have a stainless 7mm mag in the back room i got a while back i still havent put on the frame and shot yet lol
Dave

JerryKo · « **Reply #7 on:** July 07, 2008, 12:49:03 AM »

I'm still waiting to get back to the range since I shimmed the latches. I spoke with my dealer again, and he said I can bring it back anytime for the T/c replacement so I wanted to at least shoot again for my own knowledge. I'll update when I get the chance.

Like I said this barrel was shooting very good from the get go. Better than most new rifles I've purchased (Rugers and Rems).

Jerry

30-06man · « **Reply #8 on:** July 07, 2008, 11:08:57 AM »

Have you tried other barrels on the frame? I have had good luck with mine and Bergara has great CS as I have heard so I would call them now and tell them of the situation and not that you have shimmed anything.

tlyne · « **Reply #9 on:** July 07, 2008, 02:04:48 PM »

I had a friend that tired out a Bergara 243 barrel. The pin size was smaller than T/C's. It had other fiting problems. The group sizes were large. We where not happy with the Bergana barrel. I would not buy one. Just my opinion.

JerryKo · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2008, 01:47:02 AM »

Quote from: 30-06man on July 07, 2008, 11:08:57 AM

Have you tried other barrels on the frame? I have had good luck with mine and Bergara has great CS as I have heard so I would call them now and tell them of the situation and not that you have shimmed anything.

The only other barrel I have at this time is a used TC 45/70. It locks up tight, and has shot ok at 50yds with iron sights. My dealer is handling the CS part of it. Depending the outcome at the range. My only other complaint is I see a possible headspace issue with Full length sized brass only getting 3 reloads. They grow considerably after firing . Of course it could also be my die set-up, which I haven't checked yet.

Jerry

yooper77 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2008, 02:48:59 AM »

I wouldn’t deal with wasting anymore ammo on the Bergara barrel. They are not worth the headaches from what I have heard compared to the T/C's. I only have T/C factory rifle and pistol barrels and I never had to contact T/C for any issues because I haven’t experienced any yet since I started with my Encore in 1997. If you go with the T/C brand barrels you won’t be sorry.

Case life obviously depends on your loads, the 300 Winchester Magnum isn’t a cartridge that you are going to get a lot of reloads from if you are at or near max charges. The big belted magnums also like to bulge just ahead of the belt which also weakens and shortens case life.

Have you had any problems with the belt catching on the extractor, I have heard that’s a problem with the belted magnum cartridges in the Encore. I only have rimmed pistol or beltless rifle cartridges, so never a problem here.

yooper77

30-06man · « **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2008, 08:27:56 AM »

Quote from: yooper77 on July 08, 2008, 02:48:59 AM

I wouldn’t deal with wasting anymore ammo on the Bergara barrel. They are not worth the headaches from what I have heard compared to the T/C's. I only have T/C factory rifle and pistol barrels and I never had to contact T/C for any issues because I haven’t experienced any yet since I started with my Encore in 1997. If you go with the T/C brand barrels you won’t be sorry.

Case life obviously depends on your loads, the 300 Winchester Magnum isn’t a cartridge that you are going to get a lot of reloads from if you are at or near max charges. The big belted magnums also like to bulge just ahead of the belt which also weakens and shortens case life.

Have you had any problems with the belt catching on the extractor, I have heard that’s a problem with the belted magnum cartridges in the Encore. I only have rimmed pistol or beltless rifle cartridges, so never a problem here.

yooper77

I have only heard of 3 bad reviews out of the Begaras. From what I have heard and experienced they are just as good if not better than TC barrels.

yooper77 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 08, 2008, 08:42:31 AM »

OK, well I haven't ever heard anything good about them, and they are most certainly not even in the same realm as T/C. I have heard of poor finish, poor lockup, and poor accuracy.

I am not saying T/C doesn’t have their problems, but to my experience when ever my T/C Encore doesn’t shoot well it always because of me and not the equipment.

yooper77

30-06man · « **Reply #14 on:** July 08, 2008, 08:46:28 AM »

Why don't you check out the CVA forum?

yooper77 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 08, 2008, 08:50:41 AM »

Why, for what purpose?

yooper77

30-06man · « **Reply #16 on:** July 08, 2008, 04:25:06 PM »

Quote from: yooper77 on July 08, 2008, 08:42:31 AM

OK, well I haven't ever heard anything good about them, and they are most certainly not even in the same realm as T/C. I have heard of poor finish, poor lockup, and poor accuracy.

yooper77

No use in bashing something because you have heard of 1 or 2 bad experiences with them. You said you haven't heard anything good about them so I assume you don't have logical grounds to back up what you said.

JerryKo · « **Reply #17 on:** July 08, 2008, 04:52:27 PM »

Yooper,

I am only shooting a starting load with 130gr jacketed. I have gotten over 7 reloads in my now departed 7mmRM and they WERE hot. I hard a fella say a case WILL strech more with reduced loads than full power because of only the neck and shoulder making contact with the chamber, whereas a full power load will use the entire case and hold the case in place with min elongation. Seems logical, but not probable. I think brass is soft enough to expand at most psi levels seen in a 300WM. As far as the belt sticking, no not really. the whole case was catching on the extractor by alittle honing took care of that.

I have been fooling with Handi rifles nearly every weekend for the past year, and when this problem arose, it was only natural for me to "tinker" with it.

I have 1 TC barrel and 1 Bergara barrel. Like I said before everything looked great at first, fit, finish, and accuracy. I noticed the case streching and finally the loose lock up. I am still very pleased with the barrel, and probably would have it repaired, but my dealer is making me a deal that is hard to pass on. I for one really like the finish on the barrel. Matches the receiver very well.Pro Hunter.

Thanks,

Jerry

30-06man · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2008, 05:43:42 PM »

The finish on the Stainless barrels are a heck of a lot better than on the TC's. The blued barrels have a baked on finish.

yooper77 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2008, 08:10:18 PM »

30-06man , you assumed wrong! I experience things; I don’t talk about things like some armchair expert. I am not saying you do either.

I cannot truly 100% compare Bergara vs. T/C, because I don’t see any pistol barrels or a custom shop.

I am willing to bet, most problems are the user and not the equipment at all whoever makes them.

Aren’t Bergara made in Spain and T/C made in the U.S.A?

yooper77

Davemuzz · « **Reply #20 on:** July 09, 2008, 12:50:55 AM »

Bergara's are made in Spain and T\C's are made right here in the USA by people who have kids in school and mortgages 'n stuff. For me, and the X-tra $70 price difference, I will always buy the T\C and get a product that I know is backed up by a quality company with a lifetime warranty.

MHO

Dave

yooper77 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 09, 2008, 02:28:09 AM »

There isn't a price difference for me. I shop around for the best price and have always beat Bergara prices for every new in box barrel I have bought.

I have other firearms made in Germany, Italy, Japan, but from now on I will only purchase U.S.A. made products.

yooper77

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 09, 2008, 04:57:29 AM »

Do you mean that ALL of the products you buy will be made in the U.S? I, for one, would love you know where you can get a computer (or just about any other electronics) that's made in the USA.

About the barrels, when I was an Encore shooter, I also could usually beat the prices on the Bergara barrels by shipping around for the T/C barrels. I've even beat the prices on the Bergara's at gunshows. One time, a show I went to had a guy that had a whole table of Encore and Contender stuff, and I bought 3 new stainless T/C barrels for $150 each, after a little dickering around. I'm a patient person, I know what I want, I know what I want to pay for it, and I know that sometimes means that I'm not going to be able to get it immediately. It's always worth the wait though.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #23 on:** July 09, 2008, 05:07:57 AM »

Quote from: kyelkhunter3006 on July 09, 2008, 04:57:29 AM

Do you mean that ALL of the products you buy will be made in the U.S? I, for one, would love you know where you can get a computer (or just about any other electronics) that's made in the USA.

I know this question wasn't directed at me....but I'll give you MHO on it anyway. That (MHO) and $1.50 will get you a coffee at the local gas station. (And no, I don't buy at Starbucks).

I buy made in the USA products whenever I can. Obviously, computers and electronics are something that can't be 100% USA made. However, if I KNOW I have a choice, and the product is quality (Yeah...I'm not going to buy junk....who would do that?). I buy Chevy's and Fords. Yeah, we could have a discussion about where they are made and yada, yada...but I've been to Detroit and I've seen the depression there. At least I know that the profits from the sale of the Chevy's and Fords are ending up here in the USA for direction and allocation. I also know that the profits from Toyota and Honda are ending up in Japan to do with what they want.

That's how I see it.

Dave

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 09, 2008, 06:01:50 AM »

I'm right there with you, I just see a lot of people make that statement and we all know that it's just not possible with todays economy. I read all the time about "Buy American Rifles!! (instead of Sako, Tikka, CZ, and what not). They proudly proclaim the rifle is American Made and that they are supporting America, then they spend $400 on a Bushnell, Ziess, etc, instead of a Leupold (American made). Then they throw their "American" rifle and "foreign" scope into their Toyota Tundra and hook up their Yamaha quad.....I could go on and on.

There's just a lot of hypocrisy involved when that statement is made, in that context. He didn't say that he'd buy American when he can, he said that he'll only purchase American products from now on. That sounded pretty definitive to me.

I know this is off topic and I'll not stay anything else regarding it.

30-06man · « **Reply #25 on:** July 09, 2008, 06:21:42 AM »

Quote from: Davemuzz on July 09, 2008, 12:50:55 AM

Bergara's are made in Spain and T\C's are made right here in the USA by people who have kids in school and mortgages 'n stuff. For me, and the X-tra $70 price difference, I will always buy the T\C and get a product that I know is backed up by a quality company with a lifetime warranty.

MHO

Dave

Bergara was never made in the US. They have been a spanish company from the begging so then I don't have a problem with it. I try to by US products but you can't all of the time. I won't buy from a company that was here and then moved over seas for cheaper production such as my former employer. I lost my job after 25 years there and I was 5 years short of retirement.

yooper77 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 09, 2008, 07:01:07 AM »

I didn't make a blanket statement about only buying U.S.A. made products.
I made the statement in a Rifle Forum (TC Encore and Contender Rifles), this is where my statement applies.

JerryKo,

Wow starting loads in the 300 Winchester Magnum barrel and you are getting headspace issue. The 300 Winchester Magnum like any belted magnums headspace off the shoulder, but can and will headspace off the belt, so you shouldn’t have any headspace issues. Are you experiencing case failures, if so maybe the chamber is made too large and working your brass to failure. Any case head separations or case bulges just ahead of the belt? If it’s only trimming then it should stop after a while, the primer pockets should enlarge before the case fails in my experience.

yooper77

Davemuzz · « **Reply #27 on:** July 09, 2008, 11:04:55 AM »

Quote from: 30-06man on July 09, 2008, 06:21:42 AM

Bergara was never made in the US.

Yup. I know. That would be reasons number 1 thru 1 million why I will never own one. Foreign made. I can get a top quality US made barrel for a few dollars more.

Dave

Ladobe · « **Reply #28 on:** July 09, 2008, 12:01:59 PM »

Quote from: yooper77 on July 09, 2008, 07:01:07 AM

I didn't make a blanket statement about only buying U.S.A. made products.
I made the statement in a Rifle Forum (TC Encore and Contender Rifles), this is where my statement applies.

I think the confusion came because of your last statement in that post pard. Taking it as relative to the forum posted in, while it is certainly possible, I have never heard of or seen TC barrels readily available in this country that were made in Germany, Italy or Japan. Because of that, your entire post was most likely assumed by most to mean all products you buy will be US made. That would be great, but as others have said it's just not possible in today's world.

The whole apples to oranges battle over barrel brands only serves to pull apart rather than unite TC users. What you buy is entirely a matter of personal choice and budget, and should be respected by others. It matters not if someone only wants to buy Bergara barrels, if others only want to buy TC factory barrels, or others prefer to only buy custom barrels from specific aftermarket shops. What does matter is that we are all stricken with TC firearms and can use these forums to share that common ground together. Having a strong opinion is just natural, but how you present that opinion can make a big difference. Live and let live folks. We're all in the cook pot together, and they are turning up the heat.

yooper77 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 09, 2008, 04:46:00 PM »

I don't see the confusion because this is a Rifle Forum, not computers or vehicles, this is where my statement still applies.

Yes, I strayed off subjest of TC Encore and Contender Rifles, but still firearms.
German = Mauser
Italy = Navy Arms Muzzleloader
Japan = Weatherby Mark V rifle

Some people like to read too deep into statements, and obscure there true meaning.

yooper77