Author Topic: Bergara 300 Win Mag going back. Has this happened to anyone else? (Read 4153 times)

JerryKo · « **Reply #30 on:** July 09, 2008, 05:34:36 PM »

Well, I kind of figured this thread would go this route, but I also wanted to share and learn from others.

What I have found that after shimming the latches I was able to put 4 out of 5 shots into nice .5" group. Granted this was at 50yds, but also this is not a tweeked load at all. Only the first shot failed to kiss the others. I managed to cool the barrel between shots for about 5mins. I then shot 5 shots with no cool down and the group opened up to 1.25". This is to be expected as the heat from the barrel was getting intense.

I of course am going the route of getting the TC 26" SS barrel as a replacement. I can't wait to see how the two will compare.

I am pretty sure I have my die screwed in too far. I could visually see the shoulder bumped forward on the fired case as compared to a Full length sized case.

Thanks for the help guys,...I'll keep you all posted on the TC in August.

Jerry

Davemuzz · « **Reply #31 on:** July 10, 2008, 02:00:11 AM »

What I have found that after shimming the latches I was able to put 4 out of 5 shots into nice .5" group. I never had to shim a latch on a T\C barrel.

Dave

yooper77 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 10, 2008, 02:29:36 AM »

I have never had to shim any of my T/C barrels either.

Its impossible to screw your die in too far. If the chamber is over spec then the brass will fail sooner.

Is the press handle overcamming?

What make of press and dies are your using, not that it make a difference anyway?

yooper77

30-06man · « **Reply #33 on:** July 10, 2008, 07:49:16 AM »

What I don't understand is why some have to come bash a product just because they don't like it? The other threads that have to do with Bergara barrels end this way and it looks as this one will too.

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 10, 2008, 08:38:18 AM »

I think that the reason that they end up like this is because:

People decide to buy a discount or cheaper product to save money or because they feel that the original factory part is too expensive.

They waste a bunch of money and time on ammo, load development, etc, only to discover that the item isn't performing to the standard that is expected from feedback that they've gotten or read about the original factory part.

Then guys come on saying that if they'd just spent the money on a better product to begin with, they wouldn't be on here complaining about the cheaper part.

Then everyone who's a fan of the cheaper item says that we're bashing it because we don't like it.

It doesn't only happen about Bergara, it happens on all of the forums.

BUT, on this one, it does come down to the fact that the issues people are having with Bergara don't seem to be issues that people have with the T/C factory barrels. Yes, any barrel can be super accurate and any barrel could be a junker. I see and read a lot more complaints about the functionality of Bergara barrels than I do about T/C barrels.

JerryKo · « **Reply #35 on:** July 10, 2008, 12:36:59 PM »

Quote from: Davemuzz on July 10, 2008, 02:00:11 AM

What I have found that after shimming the latches I was able to put 4 out of 5 shots into nice .5" group. I never had to shim a latch on a T\C barrel.

Dave

Why couldn't you simply have stated this fact nearer the beginning of my post. Like I said this is a search for problems like this in a Bergara or TC barrel, but again thanks for the info.

As far as a cheaper product. Yes I saw a deal I liked and got burned this time. I took it upon my self to see if these barrels have any merit. I will end up with a TC 300 26" barrel at a slightly discounted price. Not my intention, but that is how it will come out. I still like the Bergara barrel at this point, but who knows maybe the TC will blow it out of the water. Like I said I will find out and put it to rest at least for my self.

Thanks for the info on the die. Also
Jerry

Davemuzz · « **Reply #36 on:** July 10, 2008, 03:38:15 PM »

Quote from: JerryKo on July 10, 2008, 12:36:59 PM

Why couldn't you simply have stated this fact nearer the beginning of my post. Like I said this is a search for problems like this in a Bergara or TC barrel, but again thanks for the info.

Jerry,

Did you quote the right post here??? Cause I'm confused. Your post began with the fact that you already bought this barrel and it came with a problem. Then your gun store guy made it right by swappin the problem Bergara barrel for a factory T\C barrel.

Then you tell me you got it to shoot good groups from shimming the latches....too which I said I've never had to shim a latch on a T\C barrel...and now you ask me why I didn't state this at the beginning of the post?

Look, if you want some independent reviews of Bergara barrels, just go to Midway and type in "Bergara" in their search box. Then read the reviews. IMHO you will find way too many bad reviews for the kind of money your spending on these barrels. Spend a few dollars more and save yourself the trouble.

Now, if you want to call that product bashing, fine. But....go read the reviews and form you own conclusions. I don't think it's "product bashing". I think it's "product knowledge".

Dave

Ladobe · « **Reply #37 on:** July 11, 2008, 09:39:06 AM »

To me, product knowledge is having personal, hands on experience, and not with just one but with many examples of the product. All the rest is just hearsay. To compare brands with any credibility, that product knowledge has to be with every brand being compared by an individual or it too is just hearsay.

Keith L · « **Reply #38 on:** July 11, 2008, 10:15:20 AM »

You are right, but I just can't seem to shake all the grief I had with the old CVA black powder crap that the market was flooded with when I was heavily into that sport. I know a lot of people that gave up on front stuffing because of the trouble they had, and it wasn't really the sport, it was the poorly made equipment they had been talked into getting. At this point Bergara may be made of solid gold, and come with a puppy and I still wouldn't want one.

Ladobe · « **Reply #39 on:** July 11, 2008, 11:14:12 AM »

Keith,

We do end up basing our most accurate opinions on personal experience, and to a point you get what you pay for. Anybody that buys cheap and then expects it to equal or exceed long proven more expensive products is just fooling themselves. So I understand your being soured on the CVA's. I on the other hand have had very good luck with the CVA side locks, even though most of their models were intended to be only entry level firearms. Probably because all of mine are very early ones made long before they got into the in-lines, cheapened then discontinued the side locks. Recently sold the 32 Squirrel, a 45 Kentucky and a Philly 45 derringer, but still have the 36 Squirrel, an early 45 Mountain rifle with the Douglas barrel and a simply awesome Sieber 45 pistol they imported from Germany. All are excellent quality for the dollar spent and none have ever given me a lick of trouble. Same with all the TC sidelocks I have or have owned, but they were all considerably more dollars spent.

Everybody has made bad barrels for the TC frame's, to include TC themselves and every single custom barrel maker. And that's a fact. To me that makes the best sources the ones who produce the highest percentage of good barrels, the lowest of bad, stand firmly behind their products and have a track record of always doing so.

Bergara has its place, and in time will either prove to be an acceptable alternative or not to those who buy into them. But until they have been around the block a few times in the hands of folks with long experience with other brands, the jury is still out for most TC users probably. Having yet another alternative is not a bad thing if they eventually pan out though, especially for the budget minded.

In the 40 years since I got my first Contender I have owned a truck load of TC factory barrels, and near that many custom barrels from 5 different shops. So I can speak of those from very long personal experience. I have never owned a Bergara barrel, so I have no informed opinion of them. I will never have an informed opinion either as I will never own one. Not because of the hearsay about them, good or bad, because hearsay carries no weight with me. But because every TC factory barrel and every barrel from two of the custom shops I have owned have performed flawlessly and as advertised. So they are the only barrels I will own now, and at this late date I have no need to try those from the new kids on the block.

L.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #40 on:** July 11, 2008, 03:46:50 PM »

Quote from: Ladobe on July 11, 2008, 09:39:06 AM

To me, product knowledge is having personal, hands on experience, and not with just one but with many examples of the product. All the rest is just hearsay. To compare brands with any credibility, that product knowledge has to be with every brand being compared by an individual or it too is just hearsay.

Well, when I buy a "new to me" product from Midway or Cabela's, I always read the reviews. If it's a higher dollar item I'll even do a Google search and find out what I can.

You can call it hearsay. I call it research. Pay attention to the guys who buy the new stuff and tell you all of it is great. Generally they don't like to be shown that they have spent their money foolishly.

Dave

Ladobe · « **Reply #41 on:** July 11, 2008, 04:02:31 PM »

That's all fine and good Dave, and I agree with doing the best research you can. Problem is who knows how qualified those reviews really are. Folks both rant against and rave for products all the time on-line whether they really know much of not, including on blogs of companies like you mentioned and on forums like this one. And its also readily apparent that lots of folks could care less if they appear foolish on-line. They are unknown to you and you have less ability to qualify them on those blogs than on one of these gun forums where you can at least check a persons history to get some idea if they are qualified to make the review.

A review from folks you know well and trust is a great possibility though.

30-06man · « **Reply #42 on:** July 12, 2008, 05:36:04 AM »

Quote from: Davemuzz on July 11, 2008, 03:46:50 PM

Quote from: Ladobe on July 11, 2008, 09:39:06 AM
To me, product knowledge is having personal, hands on experience, and not with just one but with many examples of the product. All the rest is just hearsay. To compare brands with any credibility, that product knowledge has to be with every brand being compared by an individual or it too is just hearsay.

You can call it hearsay. I call it research. Pay attention to the guys who buy the new stuff and tell you all of it is great. Generally they don't like to be shown that they have spent their money foolishly.

Dave

I wouldn't say that. I own one and have good luck with it. I am shooting 150grain Federal Fusions into 1.5 inch groups a 100 right now. I have still to find a load it likes but I haven't tried anything yet. I guess in your world there is no good reviews of them and you will bash them no matter what. If you think that then it should apply to every review on the site. Midway has about 6 bad reviews on them and I would say that is average for any barrel maker including TC for the amount of good barrels they produce. For all we know the reviews on there are from people like you that don't like Bergara because they are not a TC barrel or a custom barrel.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #43 on:** July 12, 2008, 07:32:35 AM »

Quote from: 30-06man on July 12, 2008, 05:36:04 AM

For all we know the reviews on there are from people like you that don't like Bergara because they are not a TC barrel or a custom barrel.

Yeah. That's it. Well, you've certainly hit the nail on the head there.

Dave

Keith L · « **Reply #44 on:** July 12, 2008, 10:49:31 AM »

The wonderful thing about living in America is that we all have the right to spend our money the way we want to. We also have the right to our opinions. If you want to spend your money on a Bergara barrel knock yourself out. If you don't thats OK too.

JerryKo · « **Reply #45 on:** July 13, 2008, 06:14:45 AM »

Dave,

I agree with your reply. I mean more to the effect of latches working loose. I know I didn't say anything about Shimming but meant problems in general with what I was describing. If all your TC barrels have been perfect, you could have simply stated that too. But maybe you did Iand I missed it in all the other posts here. I am well aware of your stance on these barrels. I got that from the other posts of Bergara barrels. I must state when I was going to start this thread I had reservations about it, but had hoped to gain and give some knowledge "firsthand" on the subject. I believe a lot more members may also have the same reservations of posting because of the fire this topic brings. I have owned a few high dollar USA made firearms most were great but 1 particular Kimber I had performed miserably, even after having it sent back to factory. I finally sold it to a fella for less than half of what I paid for it, because I would not simply sell it without disclosing the problems I was having with it. Not to mention the 800 rounds of FACTORY ammo that I was told to cycle thru it to break it in.

That being said,.. to the others you don't always get what you pay for. Sometimes you get more sometimes you get less. That Kimber was over $1100 dollars, plus shipping back to Factory, and ammo. To me I expected flawlessness. To ME that was a whole lot of money. But I don't going around telling people NOT to buy Kimbers. I simply tell them my first hand experience with them, and let them make there own minds up. I'll back them either way. We buy want we want to anyway.

But, for All the replies, thanks especially if it may have helped someone else along the way.

Thanks again,

Jerry

blacknwhite · « **Reply #46 on:** July 16, 2008, 07:39:56 PM »

I have had really bad luck with TC barrels so far...I would certainly try a Bergara barrel (although I have not at this point). I am considering going to custom barrels only. I have also had a lot of problems with TC's customer service (but I admittedly expect more from my firearms than most do). My biggest complaint is that they are less accurate than many other barrel makers, and it seems like everything has to be perfect to get one to shoot small groups.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #47 on:** July 17, 2008, 05:34:19 AM »

Yeah, I know I get on my "soapbox" about non-american products. But I guess I've just seen too many first hand effects of what foreign imports have done to American jobs. And I know too many people...or I should say I use to know 'em as they have left the area...who worked for VW of America. And when VW decided to yank their investment, so went the jobs...and the money...all back to Germany.

And maybe I've been lucky with my T\C barrels. Actually, my .223 T\C barrel was bought because when my custom .223 barrel came in, it was a POS. It "wiggled" from side to side in my frame. 'Ol Fred tried to tell me it was my frame. Yeah....right. Well, summer was coming and I needed a groundhog barrel...so i bought a factory 23" from Midway and it makes nice little cloverleafs at 100 yards. My longest kill has been 330 yards with it.

But, I'll back off. I've said my piece. Bargara's will still get sold, but maybe I've yapped enough to keep one guy workin for 6 more months or so. I dunno.

Dave

30-06man · « **Reply #48 on:** July 17, 2008, 06:50:54 AM »

Quote from: Davemuzz on July 17, 2008, 05:34:19 AM

Yeah, I know I get on my "soapbox" about non-american products. But I guess I've just seen too many first hand effects of what foreign imports have done to American jobs. And I know too many people...or I should say I use to know 'em as they have left the area...who worked for VW of America. And when VW decided to yank their investment, so went the jobs...and the money...all back to Germany.

And maybe I've been lucky with my T\C barrels. Actually, my .223 T\C barrel was bought because when my custom .223 barrel came in, it was a POS. It "wiggled" from side to side in my frame. 'Ol Fred tried to tell me it was my frame. Yeah....right. Well, summer was coming and I needed a groundhog barrel...so i bought a factory 23" from Midway and it makes nice little cloverleafs at 100 yards. My longest kill has been 330 yards with it.

But, I'll back off. I've said my piece. Bargara's will still get sold, but maybe I've yapped enough to keep one guy workin for 6 more months or so. I dunno.

Dave

Dave I lost my job of 25 years and it went to Brazil. They can't produce enough energy over there to run the plant a week. I was 5 years short of retirement.

Ladobe · « **Reply #49 on:** July 17, 2008, 01:02:07 PM »

Quote from: 30-06man on July 17, 2008, 06:50:54 AM

Dave I lost my job of 25 years and it went to Brazil. They can't produce enough energy over there to run the plant a week. I was 5 years short of retirement.

You can always get a job as the Bergara Barrel Poster Boy.

30-06man · « **Reply #50 on:** July 17, 2008, 01:38:40 PM »

Quote from: Ladobe on July 17, 2008, 01:02:07 PM

Quote from: 30-06man on July 17, 2008, 06:50:54 AM
Dave I lost my job of 25 years and it went to Brazil. They can't produce enough energy over there to run the plant a week. I was 5 years short of retirement.

You can always get a job as the Bergara Barrel Poster Boy.

Yeah or just keep the job I have now cleaning up the environment.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #51 on:** July 17, 2008, 02:30:25 PM »

Quote from: 30-06man on July 17, 2008, 06:50:54 AM

Dave I lost my job of 25 years and it went to Brazil. They can't produce enough energy over there to run the plant a week. I was 5 years short of retirement.

Well, I don't wish bad luck on anyone.....(really?...I think I just told a lie)....but to the management of the company that move operations to Brazil.....HA!!! You bunch of DUMB Arses!!! You mean you didn't check to see if you had a steady supply of power?

HA!! The most fundamental item to run a plant....and you didn't check it?? Ooops!!! What...I forgot?

Out to lunch that day? Missed the phone call from the Brazillian embassy that said "Hey...our chipmunks all died on the running cages and we can't get no more". Too bad if your plant cost HAVE JUST QUAD TRIPLED over your estimates. Too bad if your "search team" all got axed because of ..... what should we call it???...Oh yeah....STUPIDITY.

Oh, should I say what I really feel?

Dave

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 17, 2008, 02:56:57 PM »

Come on Dave, you should really let it out..... keeping it all inside just leads to problems in the future.

30-06man · « **Reply #53 on:** July 17, 2008, 03:36:41 PM »

Quote from: Davemuzz on July 17, 2008, 02:30:25 PM

Quote from: 30-06man on July 17, 2008, 06:50:54 AM
Dave I lost my job of 25 years and it went to Brazil. They can't produce enough energy over there to run the plant a week. I was 5 years short of retirement.

Well, I don't wish bad luck on anyone.....(really?...I think I just told a lie)....but to the management of the company that move operations to Brazil.....HA!!! You bunch of DUMB Arses!!! You mean you didn't check to see if you had a steady supply of power? HA!! The most fundamental item to run a plant....and you didn't check it?? Ooops!!! What...I forgot? Out to lunch that day? Missed the phone call from the Brazillian embassy that said "Hey...our chipmunks all died on the running cages and we can't get no more". Too bad if your plant cost HAVE JUST QUAD TRIPLED over your estimates. Too bad if your "search team" all got axed because of ..... what should we call it???...Oh yeah....STUPIDITY.

Oh, should I say what I really feel?

Dave

Yeah. It will just lead to a backup.

JerryKo · « **Reply #54 on:** September 04, 2008, 04:54:20 AM »

Geez,... its September already. I've only made a few range trips so far, and most are only for the hour I'm at lunch, but anyway the T/C barrel is holding its own. I started shooting the same loads as the Bergara barrel but it did not shine there. I know every barrel is an individual. So I went with a general load that my Browning likes and it shot alot better. So I am in the break in phase with less than 50 rounds shot so far. No up and down play like with the Bergara, but I do notice the smallest amount of side play without the forearm. Is that normal? I haven't tried the 45/70 barrel to compare, but I do not remember trying that with the forearm off. The finish is also good. I am not getting as much case growth so there must have been a chamber issue with the Bergara as well.

I got a Mentored Hunter I've been working with on his new Ruger Frontier in 300WSM (Reduced loads of course!!) so my T/C set up is kind of on hold at about 1.25-1.5 inchs at 100yds and the scope set to about an inch high.(hard to tell with that grouping) at the same range. I had hoped to hunt with it and/or a Handi Rifle I did some fun reloading with this season, but that darned Ruger is shooting .632" at 100yds and I'm really starting to fall for it. What a small,and neat rifle, and accuracy that is surprizing me.

I'll post more when it happens.

Jerry

yooper77 · « **Reply #55 on:** September 04, 2008, 05:39:19 AM »

JerryKo,

I am not surprised, but glad your T/C barrel is working better for you than the Bergara.

I don't know about the play with the forend off, because I have never had an issue with forends and my Encore, pistol or rifle.

I just make sure I use a solid base, rings and scope with a steady reliable rest for sighting in then I shoot as I would in the field to practise true hunting accuracy, standing, supported, unsupported, prone, etc.

I am curious does the 300 Winchester magnum belt give you any issues from the extractor, reason I heard people report the belt getting hung up.

yooper77

JerryKo · « **Reply #56 on:** September 05, 2008, 09:58:22 AM »

Yooper77, I forgot to mention that before, but it was on my mind. The TC extractor has hung up on a few rounds but it is not an every round issue. In fact the last range session I do not remember having a hangup on the extractor at all. Could be a brass issue. I always index my brass in single shots. So they may have finally "worn" past the point of hanging up. I'm using the same 15 cases almost every session.

Jerry

yooper77 · « **Reply #57 on:** September 05, 2008, 10:38:11 AM »

OK, I was just wondering, I have heard some people needing to bend the extractor a little so the belt clears.

Thank you,
Andrew
yooper77