Author Topic: Having trouble on deciding on caliber  (Read 1803 times)

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Offline mdyer

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Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« on: June 24, 2008, 05:03:14 PM »
I just bought a new pro hunter frame with pistol grip and forearm. I have never hunted with a handgun before although I shoot all the time as a LE Officer. I want a caliber that is comfortable to shoot that I can mabey deer hunt with and shoot the occasional varmint. I was thinking .223 any suggestions?

Offline jhalcott

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 05:35:15 PM »
What are the legalities of using a 22 center fire where you plan to HUNT? Many people think the .223 is to puny to use on deer. The Encore frame will handle some REALLY big rounds. They come with really big recoil though! The 7 TC/U is the smallest cartridge I would reccommend. Even that is restricted in some areas because it is NOT a factory loaded round. Rifle and HAND gun rules are different in SOME states ! A .357 mag isn't a bad round in a 14/15" barrel, a 243 will do great work on deer, ground hogs and coyotes. Then you have the 260 and 7-08 that will do it all except the big bear and maybe Elk. The .223 WILL do for deer IF you use a QUALITY bullet. The barrel should be twisted for the bullets you are going to use though. The new 70 and 80 grain slugs need a faster twist to be accurate.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=665774     These and other 55/60 grain bullets CAN be used on deer .

Offline Grumulkin

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2008, 01:28:48 AM »
If you haven't done so, make sure you know about the legality of various cartridges for deer hunting in your area.

Assuming a 223 Rem. is legal where you hunt, the recoil in a handgun is very low.  I have a scoped Contender 223 Rem. AI handgun barrel that puts 3 shots at 100 yards into well under an inch off the bench.  I've also taken a deer with one chest shot with a 222 Rem. so would say a 223 Rem. should work if your shot placement is correct.

Now, as far as other choices are concerned, if you're used to shooting handguns, maybe you could take a bit more recoil?  For instance, I have a braked 7mm/08 Encore barrel that is very pleasant to shoot.  I also have a braked 460 S&W Mag. Encore barrel that is quite accurate (the last 3 shot group I shot with it at 100 yds. went into about 1/2 inch).  The 7mm/08 would be excellent for deer and from personal experience, I know the 460 S&W Mag. will take anything up to Zebra easily.

The cure for recoil timidity; shoot a 500 S&W Mag. for awhile.  After that the recoil from everything else won't seem so bad.

Offline yooper77

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2008, 03:46:01 AM »
I use a 7mm-08 Remington or 454 Casull with excellent results.  It depends on if you want a pistol or rifle cartridge.

As a minimum for deer I would only recommend something in .243 caliber, like the 243 Winchester.

yopper77

Offline mdyer

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2008, 04:33:40 AM »
I am a big fan of the .243 I deer hunt with it often. How bad is the recoil in the 15 inch barrel? Here in WV we can deer hunt with with a .22 cal down to the hornet I believe.

Offline yooper77

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 05:08:49 AM »
My 7mm-8 Remington with a 15" barrel isn’t bad for me.  The 243 Winchester shouldn’t be too hard recoiling.  I know some people do, but I would never use any 22 caliber center fire cartridge for big game hunting.

My 454 Casull is a little more abrupt, but still manageable.  I use the new Pachmayr grip and forend also, because my walnut grip cracked from recoil on my 454 Casull.

http://www.lymanproducts.com/pachmayr/

yooper77

Offline WayneS

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 06:45:50 AM »
Do you hand load or have someone you trust that does reload ??  knowing that would help in selecting a round

Offline mdyer

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2008, 09:04:29 AM »
I shoot factory ammo.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008, 01:50:37 PM »
243 or a 7mm08  barrel will work great for you.  ;)
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Offline kennisondan

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2008, 04:00:32 PM »
I love my 308 fifteen inch barrelled encore... the recoil is not bad for an experienced handgunner..
it is quite effective too... factory rounds even perform well on deer sized game and it is quite accurate.
dk

Offline 30-06man

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2008, 04:05:28 PM »
260 or 243. Both will do what you need them to do.
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

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Offline jhalcott

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2008, 06:40:38 AM »
  Just use good GAME bullets NOT varmint bullets. Practice enough to have confidence in putting the shot where it needs to go. I KNOW the .223 will kill deer at reasonable ranges!

Offline Catfish

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2008, 12:24:21 PM »
I live in Oh. where we have to use straight walled rounds. I`ve been useing a .357 max. ,15 in barrel, for acouple of years and it does a good job on deer. With centerfire I would use nothing smaller than a .243. I have killed several beef over 1,000 lbs. with a .22 rimfire, but you can`t get as close as I was.

Offline mdyer

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2008, 11:45:49 AM »
Thanks for all the helpful info. I ordered a .223 for a couple of reasons. Since this is my first hunting type handgun I want to get used to the recoil of a smaller round and learn to shoot it well. Second we have a nice supply of .223 at the department so if I need an extra box for some practice its easily accessible. Once I get good with this caliber ill move to a little bigger I guess you cant have too many.

Offline poncaguy

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2008, 01:05:05 PM »
I use Hornady 139 grain Lite Mags in my 7-08 Encore for deer, 15" barrel. For yotes, I use my 15" Contender 223...............

Offline blhof

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2008, 02:59:49 AM »
The good/ or bad news is once you start shooting one; you have to get more calibers.  I'm up to 5 now, but still looking.

Offline Preacherman

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2008, 02:33:18 PM »
I am a big fan of the .243 I deer hunt with it often. How bad is the recoil in the 15 inch barrel? Here in WV we can deer hunt with with a .22 cal down to the hornet I believe.
I think if you will check the laws in WV for pistol 6mm is min.in bottle neck 357 straight wall.
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Offline mdyer

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2008, 05:41:42 AM »
.243 is the smallest you can go with handgun Im glad you said something. .223 is legal for rifle season

Offline tred1956

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2008, 08:03:06 AM »
6mm, 6.5mm, & 7mm Benchrest are also very pleasant to shoot and amazingly accurate. :)
Doug
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Offline PaulS

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2008, 05:37:24 PM »
In the Contender I have found that it is easier to get accuracy with a rimmed cartridge than with a rimless. If you are looking for an easy to shooting round check to see if the 7-30 Waters is available in your area. Barring that you can use the pistol magnum cartridges, 357mag and max, 41 mag, 44 mag and the 45 Colt can all be loaded for decent hunting rounds in a 14 inch barrel. The 30-30 with 130 grain bullets is slightly less comfortable but always a viable choice.
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Offline hunterspistol

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2008, 07:46:55 PM »
  .243 is the standard minimum for deer, that pretty much leaves you with any 6mm or 7mm (284) you care to shoot. The guys are right, that 7-30 Waters is excellent for hunting, it was designed for it. It's a 30-30 necked down to 7mm. Recoil is light for a magnum velocity round, although they aren't actually called magnums.
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Offline ourway77

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2008, 06:14:36 AM »
I have hunted with a 243 for years, so I second the suggestions made by others. I like haveing a Brake on my rifles and handguns, lets you see the hits (or Misses) ;D Only setback with a Brake is with a pistol you must wear some sort of hearing protection. very loud. I got my son a 223 to hunt deer, he lost a couple deer, so I got him a 243. A 223 is on the light side for taking Deer, and only to be used by very good shooters, no exit wounds, so forget the blood trails for 30-50 yards.  Lou
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Offline SD Handgunner

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2008, 11:38:57 AM »
I have been using Speciality Pistols for Hunting Whitetail Deer here in my native South Dakota since 1982. In the years since then I have used several different cartridges some of which have been mentioned here by others.

More to the point, since you mention you have an Encore, you'll be shooting Factory Ammo and that you want to be able to hunt Whitetail Deer and Varmints with this single Barrel I would personally recommend a 15" T/C Encore Barrel in .243 Winchester. A couple years a buddy of mine won our Shooters Club Raffle and choose a 15" .243 T/C Encore as what he wanted to get. At any rate the Encore arrived and he promptly dropped it off at my house and requested that I mount up a scope, test a few different factory rounds in it and if I had time to work up a good handload that he could use on both Whitetails and Varmints.

In regards to handloads I ended up loading 80gr. Speer Hot Core Spitzers to a muzzle velocity of 2920 FPS. It just so happens for the non handloader this very bullet is available in Factory Ammo from Federal (even though I do not know what velocity this factory load will produce out of a 15" .243).

At any rate after we broke the barrel in on my buddies Encore, found the load that we figured would best suit his needs he insisted I use his Encore to take a Whitetail since I had done all the work on the handgun. Well Jan 1st opening day of our special Antlerless Deer Season I used that very Encore Handgun with the 80gr. Speer Hot Core Spitzers in my Handloads to harvest 2 nice sized Whitetail Does. Both does were slightly over 200 yards when shot and I had a good rest to shoot from.

Upon the shot the first doe dropped in her tracks and never moved with a center chest shot. The bullet entered behind the nearside front shoulder, took out the lungs and exited behind the offside front shoulder leaving a quarter sized exit hole. Complete penetration.

After I shot the first doe the second doe sprinted a few yards and stopped. Again I was on a solid rest but just as I started my trigger squeaze the doe started walking. Yep I messed up and hit her to far back. At the shot she sprinted for almost a hundred yards and stopped under the branches of a russian olive tree. Well I was committed so I again got the Encore up on the rest and when everything was right (crosshairs midway top to bottom on her chest and right up tight behind the front shoulder) I touched the trigger. At the shot the doe dropped in her tracks. Yep I was right, I hit her too far back the first time, but the second shot was right on the money, and the results were much like the first doe. Entrance behind the near side shoulder, destroyed the lungs and exited behind the off side front shoulder leaving a quarter sized exit hole.

Now granted shooting two deer with a single cartridge or load or bullet doesn't prove much. However I have also used this same 80gr. Speer Hot Core Spitzer Bullet out of the 6mm-223 and 6mm T/CU in Contender Handguns over the years and the results have always been the s ame.

You stated you ordered a .223 Remington Barrel. I consider the .223 Remington a little small, but since it is legal in South Dakota to use for Whitetails, yes I have taken a few Whitetails with a 14" T/C Contender in .223 over the years. The one thing I learned quickly is that when some of these .22 Caliber bullets are slowed down as they are from the lessened muzzle velocity from Handguns vs Rifles they react very differently than when they impact something fired at rifle velocities. If it were me and a .223 Handgun was all I had to shoot at Whitetails I would opt for either a Handload or Black Hills Ammo with a 60gr. Nosler Partition Bullet.

Good luck with your quest for Handgunning Whitetails. It is a very addicting sport.

Larry

PS and oh buy the way, like has been stated earlier in other posts you will not have just one barrel for long.
T/C Handguns, one good shot for your moment of truth !

Offline mdyer

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2008, 02:50:44 PM »
Great review of the .243 I have two rifle in .243 and deer hent with them with wonderful results. The deer in wv are not as big as western deer. An average doe is about 90 lbs and a descent buck about 160 lbs of course that will vary here in the state but in the mountain county that I live and hunt in that is about average. I have shot my .223 a few times now to sight it in. It doesnt recoil much at all and I am starting to get use to it. when I become good with it I hope to move up to a .243 barrel I just really like that round. Once again thanks for all the great info.

Offline SD Handgunner

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Re: Having trouble on deciding on caliber
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2008, 07:58:53 AM »
The really great thing about the T/C System is that the next caliber / cartridge is just a barrel away. Heck all's it takes is MONEY, right.

Larry
T/C Handguns, one good shot for your moment of truth !