Who will you be voting for for president?

[30-06man]

Internet commandos are a dime a dozen,.. and that's all you yap yap armchair warmongers are.

Well hell you can't say much either. You say it to me while you are doing the same. Hypocrite.

How often do you see me in these treads attacking others?

Now why don't we stay on topic.

[Fazak]

Internet commandos are a dime a dozen,.. and that's all you yap yap armchair warmongers are.

Well hell you can't say much either. You say it to me while you are doing the same. Hypocrite.

How often do you see me in these treads attacking others?

Now why don't we stay on topic.

So are you gonna put in for a job in Iraq or are you just gonna sit home and yap about it on the internet?

The pay is good, man!

The only thing keeping you from it is your lack of nerve,...

If you believe in the mission, the only thing keeping you from it is that puckered up butt of yours.

Do the right thing!,... be ALL that you can BE!

Or just sit home runnin' ya yap and hoping that others do what you don't have the nerve to do,..... it's your choice.

[Fazak]

Y'all make me sick man,.. I ain't kiddin,..

Sittin' there watchin' that crap on TV,...encouraging those young boys to ship out and get involved in that mess,.. when you ain't got the first hair on your butt enough to make you do it yourself.

You're worse than a waste,... you work to waste others,...while you're hiding under ya mammies skirts,..

That's a fact,... deal with it.

[30-06man]

Internet commandos are a dime a dozen,.. and that's all you yap yap armchair warmongers are.

You can't even walk a straight enough line to go by what you said a few minutes ago.

Y'all make me sick man,.. I ain't kiddin,..

Sittin' there watchin' that crap on TV,...encouraging those young boys to ship out and get involved in that mess,.. when you ain't got the first hair on your butt enough to make you do it yourself.

You're worse than a waste,... you work to waste others,...while you're hiding under ya mammies skirts,..

That's a fact,... deal with it.

If I could I would. If it happens your way it will but them we will be fighting them here.

Now like I said earlier lets get back on topic as this has nothing to do with Who you will be voting for President.

[Fazak]

Internet commandos are a dime a dozen,.. and that's all you yap yap armchair warmongers are.

You can't even walk a straight enough line to go by what you said a few minutes ago.

Y'all make me sick man,.. I ain't kiddin,..

Sittin' there watchin' that crap on TV,...encouraging those young boys to ship out and get involved in that mess,.. when you ain't got the first hair on your butt enough to make you do it yourself.

You're worse than a waste,... you work to waste others,...while you're hiding under ya mammies skirts,..

That's a fact,... deal with it.

If I could I would. If it happens your way it will but them we will be fighting them here.

Now like I said earlier lets get back on topic as this has nothing to do with Who you will be voting for President.

You haven't had time to get to Iraq since your last post,.. you need to shut up until you're there.

[ironglow]

  Fazak;
      I am too old to be in Iraq,but a fellow church member was a civilian contractor (Truck driver) working there back in 2004 until his truck caught 23 slugs
   ..and he caught 3 of them .
       My grandson and several of my neighbors have been there, most more than one deployment. To a man, they disagree with both you and John Kerry;
     
          They never felt like they were "STUK IN IRAK "     ..

[SHOOTALL]

FAZAK,  BS !
More truck drivers die on the road than U S soilders die each year . more construction workers die each year than U S soilders and there are others . So if you requie being in a job that can get ya killed to make a statement then many have it in spades . Tax payers foot the bill so I can't see sending the troops unless the deed needs to be done . As far as buying into Bush . He has a bigger following than you ! But unlike you his statements are before the world and not behind the cover of the internet !

[30-06man]

  Fazak;
      I am too old to be in Iraq,

You are not the only one. Plus I have a family I have to take care of.

FAZAK,  BS !
More truck drivers die on the road than U S soilders die each year . more construction workers die each year than U S soilders and there are others . So if you requie being in a job that can get ya killed to make a statement then many have it in spades . Tax payers foot the bill so I can't see sending the troops unless the deed needs to be done . As far as buying into Bush . He has a bigger following than you ! But unlike you his statements are before the world and not behind the cover of the internet !

I agree.

Oh yes, and if you can't go over to Iracq and get a fat job and belief in saving the world the Bush way,,,,,you could also voluntarily send more taxes to Uncle Sap.  I know they and their contractor pals would really really like that a whole bunch....probably send you a thank you card or somethin.  So how much you puttin up for the W OF T..?

...TM7

Somehow I knew you would say something.

[Graybeard]

Fazak I know this is gonna come as a shock to ya  but you really ARE NOT authorized to tell folks when it's time for them to shut up on this site. That authorization is limited to folks that have ADMIN attached to their user names. Iffen ya gonna play then play nice.

Internet commandos are a dime a dozen,.. and that's all you yap yap armchair warmongers are.

You can't even walk a straight enough line to go by what you said a few minutes ago.

Y'all make me sick man,.. I ain't kiddin,..

Sittin' there watchin' that crap on TV,...encouraging those young boys to ship out and get involved in that mess,.. when you ain't got the first hair on your butt enough to make you do it yourself.

You're worse than a waste,... you work to waste others,...while you're hiding under ya mammies skirts,..

That's a fact,... deal with it.

If I could I would. If it happens your way it will but them we will be fighting them here.

Now like I said earlier lets get back on topic as this has nothing to do with Who you will be voting for President.

You haven't had time to get to Iraq since your last post,.. you need to shut up until you're there.

[Fazak]

Generally speaking, I *do* play nice,.. but when I see a buncha armchair warmongers telling a soldier in Iraq how he's supposed to think about it, I have to confess,.. it tends to get my goat.

[Fazak]

Also,.. I've seen the "gas house gang" regularly say things to others that's far worse than anything I've ever said.

It's pretty much a daily occurance for most of them.

[Graybeard]

The "Play Nice" comment applies to all. I don't get to these political or religious arguments often as those are two topics I feel are best done face to face. For that reason I tend to avoid them but from time to time I'll drop in just to see how out of line folks are getting.

[Cabin4]

Just because someone believes the war in Iraq is "just" and or you support the efforts of the troops, does not make you an internet commando or a war monger.

Just because someone is opposed to the war in Iraq, does not automatically make that person a terrorist supporter or anti-American.

I would venture to say that, by in large, people who support the war effort are sick and tired of innocent Americans being targeted for death in the name of Islam.

I would also venture to say that, by in large, people who do not support the war effort simply believe we should not have American troops abroad for any reason, especially when they are being killed in action.

In my opinion, the real problem are the people that don't fit into either above category but put one of the above masks on to hide their real ambitions. I think we know who they are.....

[DakotaElkSlayer]

Just because someone believes the war in Iraq is "just" and or you support the efforts of the troops, does not make you an internet commando or a war monger.

Just because someone is opposed to the war in Iraq, does not automatically make that person a terrorist supporter or anti-American.

Just thought I would repeat your words so hopefully it would sink in some melons around here.

Jim

[Dee]

  Fazak;
      I am too old to be in Iraq,

You are not the only one. Plus I have a family I have to take care of.

My son has a family to take care of as do MOST soldiers deployed in Iraq. Your remark sickens me.
My son is NOT a desk jockey, isn't in the motor pool, or any of that. He is a Sgt. with the 82nd Air Borne. He has so far, one deployment in Afghanistan, and TWO in Iraq. He sees the war in Afghanistan as a JUSTIFIED WAR. He sees the war in Iraq, as a WASTE OF TIME. He is not one of the hand picked soldiers that Fox and friends interviews, and he is not anti-American. He is a soldier that goes where he is sent, whether he likes it or not.
If we left Iraq, we would NOT be fighting them over here. That is a stupid statement that has long since been dis proven. I too am an old man now, but have seen more than my share of killing. At the end of the day it's still just killing. I would GLADLY take his place if they would let me.
Iraq does not want us there. Never did, and has recently demanded a departure date. THEY HATE US. Pure and simple. When we leave ANOTHER dictator will claw his way to the top, and they will be right back where they started.
They are Muslim. The Muslim religion is a theocracy. This theocracy will not ALLOW democracy. Until everyone educated themselves they will continue to make dumb statements about liberating Iraq, and fighting terrorist. Iraq DID NOT have weapons of mass destruction, EVEN THE PRESIDENT ADMITS THE INFO WAS BAD. So give it up already. AND, Iraq did not attack us.
WE, put Hussein into power, and WE put Noriega (Panama) into power AFTER TRAINING THEM "BOTH" IN THE "SCHOOL OF AMERICAS" at Ft. Benning, Ga. Their REAL OFFENSE? They quit doing business with the U.S. SO! We took them out. Vendetta! Plain and simple.
There is much to be said about men whom cry for war, but are unwilling or unable (as they claim) to actually fight it. That son's and grandsons have fought in a war does not COUNT, for one's fighting in it THEMSELVES. These sons and grandsons are soldiers. REAL SOLDIERS, not internet soldiers, that set back and make macho statements about what these REAL SOLDIERS should do. You guys talk about them as if they have no face, no family, no future, no plans, no goals, no desires, and NO FUTURES. They are there merely there to DO WHAT "YOU" BELIEVE IS RIGHT, but you are unwilling to do it yourself.
I do not wish my son, nor anyone else's son to fight a war with no direction, and no threat to the U.S. AND THERE WAS NONE in Iraq. I support my son, and ALL OTHERS that are in both Afghanistan, and Iraq. BUT, I recognize that Iraq is a POLITICAL VENDETTA WAR, as do over 70% of Americans. It has nothing to do with GUTTS. It has everything to do with common sense. Call me gutless if you wish, but I served my country for 20 years in uniform. Not from behind a desk, or on the Internet, but on the streets, protecting others rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If it were not for  men like me, some one bigger, and badder than you, would have came and took your stuff away from you. Think Not? Two old Texas cliches, I learned to be very true over a 20 year law enforcement career. NEVER MET A HORSE THAT COULDN'T BE RODE, AND NEVER MET A MAN THAT COULDN'T BE THROWED. And; MORE GOOD BULL RIDES ARE DONE FROM THE FENCE, THAN IN THE ARENA. Think about. You'll figure them out.
As for the truck driver getting shot up in Iraq. The dumb ass went over there to make a bunch of money, and found out what they think about Americans over there.

FAZAK,  BS !
More truck drivers die on the road than U S soldiers die each year . more construction workers die each year than U S soldiers and there are others . So if you requie being in a job that can get ya killed to make a statement then many have it in spades . Tax payers foot the bill so I can't see sending the troops unless the deed needs to be done . As far as buying into Bush . He has a bigger following than you ! But unlike you his statements are before the world and not behind the cover of the internet !

I agree.

Oh yes, and if you can't go over to Iracq and get a fat job and belief in saving the world the Bush way,,,,,you could also voluntarily send more taxes to Uncle Sap.  I know they and their contractor pals would really really like that a whole bunch....probably send you a thank you card or somethin.  So how much you puttin up for the W OF T..?

...TM7

Somehow I knew you would say something.

[Redhawk1]

Fazak, I have sat here and read all the crap you wrote. And that is all it is CRAP.

Myself I was in the Military for 10 years and was on a mission in the Indian ocean when Iran had our hostages in the 80's, my wife did 20 years of service, my father did 26 years, and served two tours in Vietnam. My son was in Iraq for 18 months, my Son in law is shipping out as a convoy commander in August to Iraq. We are a proud Military family. My son in law lost his brother in Afghanistan, and yet he still serves with pride.

My family has done and is doing it's part, what are you doing? You come to this site and run your mouth day in and day out about everyone, and act like you are the king of the hill, all high and mighty. You are just a pathetic person.

[hardertr]

My son has a family to take care of as do MOST soldiers deployed in Iraq. Your remark sickens me.
My son is NOT a desk jockey, isn't in the motor pool, or any of that. He is a Sgt. with the 82nd Air Borne. He has so far, one deployment in Afghanistan, and TWO in Iraq. He sees the war in Afghanistan as a JUSTIFIED WAR. He sees the war in Iraq, as a WASTE OF TIME. He is not one of the hand picked soldiers that Fox and friends interviews, and he is not anti-American. He is a soldier that goes where he is sent, whether he likes it or not.
If we left Iraq, we would NOT be fighting them over here. That is a stupid statement that has long since been dis proven. I too am an old man now, but have seen more than my share of killing. At the end of the day it's still just killing. I would GLADLY take his place if they would let me.
Iraq does not want us there. Never did, and has recently demanded a departure date. THEY HATE US. Pure and simple. When we leave ANOTHER dictator will claw his way to the top, and they will be right back where they started.
They are Muslim. The Muslim religion is a theocracy. This theocracy will not ALLOW democracy. Until everyone educated themselves they will continue to make dumb statements about liberating Iraq, and fighting terrorist. Iraq DID NOT have weapons of mass destruction, EVEN THE PRESIDENT ADMITS THE INFO WAS BAD. So give it up already. AND, Iraq did not attack us.
WE, put Hussein into power, and WE put Noriega (Panama) into power AFTER TRAINING THEM "BOTH" IN THE "SCHOOL OF AMERICAS" at Ft. Benning, Ga. Their REAL OFFENSE? They quit doing business with the U.S. SO! We took them out. Vendetta! Plain and simple.
There is much to be said about men whom cry for war, but are unwilling or unable (as they claim) to actually fight it. That son's and grandsons have fought in a war does not COUNT, for one's fighting in it THEMSELVES. These sons and grandsons are soldiers. REAL SOLDIERS, not internet soldiers, that set back and make macho statements about what these REAL SOLDIERS should do. You guys talk about them as if they have no face, no family, no future, no plans, no goals, no desires, and NO FUTURES. They are there merely there to DO WHAT "YOU" BELIEVE IS RIGHT, but you are unwilling to do it yourself.
I do not wish my son, nor anyone else's son to fight a war with no direction, and no threat to the U.S. AND THERE WAS NONE in Iraq. I support my son, and ALL OTHERS that are in both Afghanistan, and Iraq. BUT, I recognize that Iraq is a POLITICAL VENDETTA WAR, as do over 70% of Americans. It has nothing to do with GUTTS. It has everything to do with common sense. Call me gutless if you wish, but I served my country for 20 years in uniform. Not from behind a desk, or on the Internet, but on the streets, protecting others rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If it were not for  men like me, some one bigger, and badder than you, would have came and took your stuff away from you. Think Not? Two old Texas cliches, I learned to be very true over a 20 year law enforcement career. NEVER MET A HORSE THAT COULDN'T BE RODE, AND NEVER MET A MAN THAT COULDN'T BE THROWED. And; MORE GOOD BULL RIDES ARE DONE FROM THE FENCE, THAN IN THE ARENA. Think about. You'll figure them out.
As for the truck driver getting shot up in Iraq. The dumb ass went over there to make a bunch of money, and found out what they think about Americans over there.

From one "pathetic backstabber" to another    , tell your son I said THANK YOU....and he did make a difference!  I'll gladly meet up with him and buy him a beer (or several) once we redeploy back to Bragg.  We work a lot with the 82nd down here in Souther Iraq, and really appreciate all they have done as far as security.

Like I said, even if this "war" is pointless, these Soldiers can take pride in protecting each other until they finally pull the plug.

And YES.... that excuse about "family to take care of" sickens me to the core too!  We have single parents in our company that had to choose to either get out of the Army, or leave their young child with family for 15 months..... they chose to honor their contract.

Hell, I have an 8 month old that was born 2 months after I deployed....and met him for the first time on my 18 day R&R leave.  My wife (also in the Army) is doing an excellent job of holding down the fort until I return.  We both expect her to deploy (probably to Afghanistan...the REAL war) within 2 years of me getting home.

BACK ON TOPIC...... Obama plans to pull as many troops out of Iraq and send them to Afghanistan as he can.  Wasn't this Obama's original stance from the VERY BEGINING??  I don't want my family to be broken apart again if she has to come HERE to Iraq.  Afghanistan is a completely different story.

[Cabin4]

BACK ON TOPIC...... Obama plans to pull as many troops out of Iraq and send them to Afghanistan as he can.  Wasn't this Obama's original stance from the VERY BEGINING?? 

Obama is Changing his position all the time so who knows whats he's going to do. His campaign slogan "Time For Change" is apparently the slogan about his method of decision making as opposed to direction for our country.

He originally said he would have all troops out of Iraq in I think is was 16 or so months. Now he's saying he will talk to commanders on the ground to fine tune the withdrawl plan. Well, HELL, what is this moron doing making a commitment for 16 months if he had no idea if it was realistic??? Know he's saying redeploy to Afghan !!!! I suppose 16 months is out the window too since he's not been to Iraq!!!

The guy is inexperienced, stupid and a far left wing idiot who say anything to his base supporters they want to hear. Who the hell goes around making commitments the size and scope of pulling 150,000 troops out of a foreign conflict and now he's admitting he really had no idea what he was talking about to begin with?? And this guy wants to be president. God help us all..if this moron is elected..

At Hillary had the right idea on this point( I'm no Hillary supporter). She never commit ed to a pull out time frame because she knew ANY time frame commitment would only be a guess.  Obama fell into the trap on this one and its going to hurt him during the final phase of the campaign with McCain. GOOD.

[Dee]

hardertr, Clay was in Baghdad fighting house to house on his last tour. His bunch was working with Rangers. He had a nine man team under him, and they didn't loose a man. Some wounded but none lost. Your right, it takes team work whether one agrees on the mission or not. After his first tour, he was home 4 days, and the big push was about to take place, and his unit was sent right back with only a 24 hour notice to get ready.

[30-06man]

  Fazak;
      I am too old to be in Iraq,

You are not the only one. Plus I have a family I have to take care of.

My son has a family to take care of as do MOST soldiers deployed in Iraq. Your remark sickens me.
My son is NOT a desk jockey, isn't in the motor pool, or any of that. He is a Sgt. with the 82nd Air Borne. He has so far, one deployment in Afghanistan, and TWO in Iraq. He sees the war in Afghanistan as a JUSTIFIED WAR. He sees the war in Iraq, as a WASTE OF TIME. He is not one of the hand picked soldiers that Fox and friends interviews, and he is not anti-American. He is a soldier that goes where he is sent, whether he likes it or not.
If we left Iraq, we would NOT be fighting them over here. That is a stupid statement that has long since been dis proven. I too am an old man now, but have seen more than my share of killing. At the end of the day it's still just killing. I would GLADLY take his place if they would let me.
Iraq does not want us there. Never did, and has recently demanded a departure date. THEY HATE US. Pure and simple. When we leave ANOTHER dictator will claw his way to the top, and they will be right back where they started.
They are Muslim. The Muslim religion is a theocracy. This theocracy will not ALLOW democracy. Until everyone educated themselves they will continue to make dumb statements about liberating Iraq, and fighting terrorist. Iraq DID NOT have weapons of mass destruction, EVEN THE PRESIDENT ADMITS THE INFO WAS BAD. So give it up already. AND, Iraq did not attack us.
WE, put Hussein into power, and WE put Noriega (Panama) into power AFTER TRAINING THEM "BOTH" IN THE "SCHOOL OF AMERICAS" at Ft. Benning, Ga. Their REAL OFFENSE? They quit doing business with the U.S. SO! We took them out. Vendetta! Plain and simple.
There is much to be said about men whom cry for war, but are unwilling or unable (as they claim) to actually fight it. That son's and grandsons have fought in a war does not COUNT, for one's fighting in it THEMSELVES. These sons and grandsons are soldiers. REAL SOLDIERS, not internet soldiers, that set back and make macho statements about what these REAL SOLDIERS should do. You guys talk about them as if they have no face, no family, no future, no plans, no goals, no desires, and NO FUTURES. They are there merely there to DO WHAT "YOU" BELIEVE IS RIGHT, but you are unwilling to do it yourself.
I do not wish my son, nor anyone else's son to fight a war with no direction, and no threat to the U.S. AND THERE WAS NONE in Iraq. I support my son, and ALL OTHERS that are in both Afghanistan, and Iraq. BUT, I recognize that Iraq is a POLITICAL VENDETTA WAR, as do over 70% of Americans. It has nothing to do with GUTTS. It has everything to do with common sense. Call me gutless if you wish, but I served my country for 20 years in uniform. Not from behind a desk, or on the Internet, but on the streets, protecting others rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If it were not for  men like me, some one bigger, and badder than you, would have came and took your stuff away from you. Think Not? Two old Texas cliches, I learned to be very true over a 20 year law enforcement career. NEVER MET A HORSE THAT COULDN'T BE RODE, AND NEVER MET A MAN THAT COULDN'T BE THROWED. And; MORE GOOD BULL RIDES ARE DONE FROM THE FENCE, THAN IN THE ARENA. Think about. You'll figure them out.
As for the truck driver getting shot up in Iraq. The dumb ass went over there to make a bunch of money, and found out what they think about Americans over there.

FAZAK,  BS !
More truck drivers die on the road than U S soldiers die each year . more construction workers die each year than U S soldiers and there are others . So if you requie being in a job that can get ya killed to make a statement then many have it in spades . Tax payers foot the bill so I can't see sending the troops unless the deed needs to be done . As far as buying into Bush . He has a bigger following than you ! But unlike you his statements are before the world and not behind the cover of the internet !

I agree.

Oh yes, and if you can't go over to Iracq and get a fat job and belief in saving the world the Bush way,,,,,you could also voluntarily send more taxes to Uncle Sap.  I know they and their contractor pals would really really like that a whole bunch....probably send you a thank you card or somethin.  So how much you puttin up for the W OF T..?

...TM7

Somehow I knew you would say something.

Yeah Dee put words in my mouth and twist them around.

" You guys talk about them as if they have no face, no family, no future, no plans, no goals, no desires, and NO FUTURES. They are there merely there to DO WHAT "YOU" BELIEVE IS RIGHT, but you are unwilling to do it yourself."

I don't remember saying this or treating anyone like this.


"My son is NOT a desk jockey, isn't in the motor pool, or any of that. "
Don't remember saying this either or saying anything against your sons service.

''THEY HATE US. Pure and simple."

Most everyone does.





''I too am an old man now, but have seen more than my share of killing. At the end of the day it's still just killing. I would GLADLY take his place if they would let me.''

I would take his place if they would let me. I also know I have a family to take care of and I couldn't go over there and leave them here to lose a  house and be put out by the government. I just can't leave and neglect them.

''I support my son, and ALL OTHERS that are in both Afghanistan, and Iraq.''

I never said I didn't support them. I always have.

Ok Dee. So I didn't go into the Military. I screwed up and its too late to fix that now. I have always supported the troops and always will and that is the least I can do. I regret what I didn't do but I was stupid and hard headed. You take my support for the troops and twist it around and make me a Anti American, war monger, and internet solider. I am betting now more than ever you will call me Anti American, War Monger, and a internet solider.

I will say this tell your son Thanks for his service and wish him well same goes for any veteran and the troops serving this country. The same goes for Hardertr and his family. IG Thanks and tell your son I said thanks also.

Has anyone heard from the member here that is in Iraq now? I think his membership name is Mitchell.

[Cabin4]

cabin, I disagree. What we need in my opinion, is for all registered voters to be informed of current issues and to vote!

Who do you trust to inform them?

Good point. My answer to this is certainly NOT the main stream media outlets. This really is one of the major issue we have politically in our country. The media has taken on the role of advocacy journalism. And since nearly every media outlet is run by left wing liberals, their advocacy is always for the liberal cause.

We cannot trust the media anymore. they are liars and nothing more then an extension of the liberal wing. The only way to combat this is with right wing advocacy journalism. Until this happens, the message will never get out.

All there major networks (ABC, CBS, NBC) have announced that their 3 Prime Time news anchors, Kati Kourik, Brian Williams and the other guy (can't remember his name) are all going with Obama on his visit Europe and then to Iraq. This is unheard of in American politics when all 3 networks prime time anchors travel with a nominee!!! Are these netwoks in the tank for Obama or what??? YES.

Not to mention, Obama is going to give a CAMPAIGN speech in Germany!!! Also unheard of in the history of American politics. Is this guy in the tank of western European socialism or what?? YES

McCain will be here in the states with little to NO media coverage during this whole time. So much for objective reporting.

At least maybe Obama can "fine tune" his Iraq strategy. Since he's never put a strategy together of any kind on anything worth noting so far his entire adult life, Iraq will make a good first step for him....LOL

[Dee]

  Fazak;
      I am too old to be in Iraq,

You are not the only one. Plus I have a family I have to take care of.

My son has a family to take care of as do MOST soldiers deployed in Iraq. Your remark sickens me.
My son is NOT a desk jockey, isn't in the motor pool, or any of that. He is a Sgt. with the 82nd Air Borne. He has so far, one deployment in Afghanistan, and TWO in Iraq. He sees the war in Afghanistan as a JUSTIFIED WAR. He sees the war in Iraq, as a WASTE OF TIME. He is not one of the hand picked soldiers that Fox and friends interviews, and he is not anti-American. He is a soldier that goes where he is sent, whether he likes it or not.
If we left Iraq, we would NOT be fighting them over here. That is a stupid statement that has long since been dis proven. I too am an old man now, but have seen more than my share of killing. At the end of the day it's still just killing. I would GLADLY take his place if they would let me.
Iraq does not want us there. Never did, and has recently demanded a departure date. THEY HATE US. Pure and simple. When we leave ANOTHER dictator will claw his way to the top, and they will be right back where they started.
They are Muslim. The Muslim religion is a theocracy. This theocracy will not ALLOW democracy. Until everyone educated themselves they will continue to make dumb statements about liberating Iraq, and fighting terrorist. Iraq DID NOT have weapons of mass destruction, EVEN THE PRESIDENT ADMITS THE INFO WAS BAD. So give it up already. AND, Iraq did not attack us.
WE, put Hussein into power, and WE put Noriega (Panama) into power AFTER TRAINING THEM "BOTH" IN THE "SCHOOL OF AMERICAS" at Ft. Benning, Ga. Their REAL OFFENSE? They quit doing business with the U.S. SO! We took them out. Vendetta! Plain and simple.
There is much to be said about men whom cry for war, but are unwilling or unable (as they claim) to actually fight it. That son's and grandsons have fought in a war does not COUNT, for one's fighting in it THEMSELVES. These sons and grandsons are soldiers. REAL SOLDIERS, not internet soldiers, that set back and make macho statements about what these REAL SOLDIERS should do. You guys talk about them as if they have no face, no family, no future, no plans, no goals, no desires, and NO FUTURES. They are there merely there to DO WHAT "YOU" BELIEVE IS RIGHT, but you are unwilling to do it yourself.
I do not wish my son, nor anyone else's son to fight a war with no direction, and no threat to the U.S. AND THERE WAS NONE in Iraq. I support my son, and ALL OTHERS that are in both Afghanistan, and Iraq. BUT, I recognize that Iraq is a POLITICAL VENDETTA WAR, as do over 70% of Americans. It has nothing to do with GUTTS. It has everything to do with common sense. Call me gutless if you wish, but I served my country for 20 years in uniform. Not from behind a desk, or on the Internet, but on the streets, protecting others rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If it were not for  men like me, some one bigger, and badder than you, would have came and took your stuff away from you. Think Not? Two old Texas cliches, I learned to be very true over a 20 year law enforcement career. NEVER MET A HORSE THAT COULDN'T BE RODE, AND NEVER MET A MAN THAT COULDN'T BE THROWED. And; MORE GOOD BULL RIDES ARE DONE FROM THE FENCE, THAN IN THE ARENA. Think about. You'll figure them out.
As for the truck driver getting shot up in Iraq. The dumb ass went over there to make a bunch of money, and found out what they think about Americans over there.

FAZAK,  BS !
More truck drivers die on the road than U S soldiers die each year . more construction workers die each year than U S soldiers and there are others . So if you requie being in a job that can get ya killed to make a statement then many have it in spades . Tax payers foot the bill so I can't see sending the troops unless the deed needs to be done . As far as buying into Bush . He has a bigger following than you ! But unlike you his statements are before the world and not behind the cover of the internet !

I agree.

Oh yes, and if you can't go over to Iracq and get a fat job and belief in saving the world the Bush way,,,,,you could also voluntarily send more taxes to Uncle Sap.  I know they and their contractor pals would really really like that a whole bunch....probably send you a thank you card or somethin.  So how much you puttin up for the W OF T..?

...TM7

Somehow I knew you would say something.

Yeah Dee put words in my mouth and twist them around.

" You guys talk about them as if they have no face, no family, no future, no plans, no goals, no desires, and NO FUTURES. They are there merely there to DO WHAT "YOU" BELIEVE IS RIGHT, but you are unwilling to do it yourself."

I don't remember saying this or treating anyone like this.


"My son is NOT a desk jockey, isn't in the motor pool, or any of that. "
Don't remember saying this either or saying anything against your sons service.

''THEY HATE US. Pure and simple."

Most everyone does.





''I too am an old man now, but have seen more than my share of killing. At the end of the day it's still just killing. I would GLADLY take his place if they would let me.''

I would take his place if they would let me.


I also know I have a family to take care of and I couldn't go over there and leave them here to lose a  house and be put out by the government. I just can't leave and neglect them.

So what your saying is that YOUR FAMILY AND HOUSE are more important than the SOLDIERS FAMILIES AND HOMES. THEY CAN LEAVE THEIRS, BUT YOU CAN'T LEAVE YOURS? Hmmmmm''

I support my son, and ALL OTHERS that are in both Afghanistan, and Iraq.''

I never said I didn't support them. I always have.

Ok Dee. So I didn't go into the Military. I screwed up and its too late to fix that now. I have always supported the troops and always will and that is the least I can do. I regret what I didn't do but I was stupid and hard headed. You take my support for the troops and twist it around and make me a Anti American, war monger, and internet solider. I am betting now more than ever you will call me Anti American, War Monger, and a internet solider.

I will say this tell your son Thanks for his service and wish him well same goes for any veteran and the troops serving this country. The same goes for Hardertr and his family. IG Thanks and tell your son I said thanks also.

Has anyone heard from the member here that is in Iraq now? I think his membership name is Mitchell.

I believe that hardertr IS AT THE PRESENT IN IRAQ. Are you so busy trying to JUSTIFY your stance that you did not notice? HARDERTR is doing your fighting for you internet warriors that so love this Iraq war.

One other thing. I did not POINT YOU OUT, but alas. A bit dog always hollers as they say.

[ironglow]

  "Too much quotin goin on"...this old blacksmith can't keep it straight !..LOL

   Cabin..Last I recall hearing from Mitch..he was at Ft.Hood, had mde the grade into trying for the sniper team and was in training.
   that however, was some time ago..perhaps a year or year & a half..No new info. Sure would l;ike to hear frtom him..

[jimster]

Hardertr wrote  "Like I said, even if this "war" is pointless, these Soldiers can take pride in protecting each other until they finally pull the plug."

I for one would like to say thanks to everyone who has a son, daughter, or relative that is serving over in Iraq now, I know my son is in good company and it helps to know that.
I guess I've had my opinions on Iraq since 1991 when we bombed Bagdad, and crushed the Republican guard, and I had some opinions when during the Clinton administration
while he was blowing up the place as well...and of course I have my opinions about the corrupt worthless United Nations who I blame as much as anyone for not having any teeth, but still
threatening nations and stirring the pot.  UN is doing the same thing now in Iran as in Iraq...worthless resololutions...no teeth.  Probably taking money/bribes from Iran just like they did Iraq.
Well, whatever, we are there and it doesn't matter what led to it, or how many things led to it anymore.

Bottom line is we are there now....no matter why or how.  So at least our son is not alone and surrounded by the best,  hope they all come home pretty soon. 
I don't trust any politicians to watch over my son, but I trust people like you, and your sons and daughters and relatives to take care of him. 
No matter what any of us think is the reason, or if it was a good one, we at least all have the same feelings about our solders.

Jim

[Sturgis]

Ron Paul

[Chilachuck]

I usually ignore campaigns, paying more attention to what was said and done long before the candidate decided to run and started putting his best face on, but Obama is really grinding on my nerves. He has more flip flops than Miami in the summer. I'm going to have to hold my nose and vote McCain, even though I'd rather barf.

[hardertr]

   Cabin..Last I recall hearing from Mitch..he was at Ft.Hood, had mde the grade into trying for the sniper team and was in training.
   that however, was some time ago..perhaps a year or year & a half..No new info. Sure would l;ike to hear frtom him..

Mitch is up in Mosul with 3ACR (got it from some of his posts).  THOSE guys do run across the occassional Al Qaeda that is trying to scoot through to Iran for training and weapons/money. 

It's kinda like catching deer on a small trail between a prime feeding ground and a watering hole..... they'll come across....but the numbers are in the field or at the pond.  Once they figure out we've been hunting the trail, they'll move north through the neighbors' land.

[ironglow]

  Hardertr;
   Thanks for the info on Mitch ! My next door neighbor lad is serving with the Army in Tikrit..while his brother served south of Baghdad, in Babil.
  One of my friend's sons is with the 101st Airborne in Baghdad.
   My grandson served with  Marine's 22nd MEU (Spec Ops) in Al Anbar (2005-2006), he was very active all up and down the Euphrates, especially
  around the Ramadi/Fallujah area, where during the last months of his deployment he trained IA soldiers.
      His second deployment was (2006-2007) after a few short months's break. Back in Al Anbar, except for the first few weeks and one "all volunteer"
   mission, things were much quieter after the surge took hold..IA and tribal leaders began eliminating or rounding up the bad guys by themselves.

   Best wishes for a remaining quiet deployment..

[30-06man]

   Cabin..Last I recall hearing from Mitch..he was at Ft.Hood, had mde the grade into trying for the sniper team and was in training.
   that however, was some time ago..perhaps a year or year & a half..No new info. Sure would l;ike to hear frtom him..

Mitch is up in Mosul with 3ACR (got it from some of his posts).  THOSE guys do run across the occassional Al Qaeda that is trying to scoot through to Iran for training and weapons/money. 

It's kinda like catching deer on a small trail between a prime feeding ground and a watering hole..... they'll come across....but the numbers are in the field or at the pond.  Once they figure out we've been hunting the trail, they'll move north through the neighbors' land.

Thanks for the update.

[Buckhammer74]

We are throwing money out the window when we can least afford it (IRAQ)

We have financed this war and our oil consumption with China. PLEASE CALL ME A LIAR!

We give away money to so many countries when we are in debt up to our necks, aid to this country and that, bribes to other countries for stalling their nuclear ambitions. When will it end? We have MAJOR problems at home.

We sit here and discuss a war that never should have happened.

The problem in the middle east is Israel.

In my opinion, let the Islamics have it. We keep p!$$ing money into a lost cause that only brings US further down.

I say we should go full force into wind,solar, and nuclear power, so we wont need to worry or speculate about what happens in the sandpit. Even if we drill off the continental shelf or wherever else, we wont see any relief for nearly a decade.

Why cant we as americans adopt the philosophy and urgency when it comes to power sources that we had when trying to be the first to obtain the BOMB or the first to reach the moon? Are you telling me that if we put it all into it we cant design a battery that can run a passenger car on electricity when we have made submarines and aircraft carriers that are solely powered by nuclear energy for closed to fifty years?

That being said,
Im still up in the air.

And no Ironglow, College wasnt the reason I spent my years away form MI. I was working.