Author Topic: Deer cartridge only ??????  (Read 10830 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #180 on: September 04, 2008, 03:17:45 AM »
There is no better rifle than the 700 Remington in .30-06.  The novice will cling to the Mauser extractor but it amounts to nothing.  The same can be said for controled round feed.  The 700 Remington will operate perfectly upside down.  When you get some big boy pants, let us know what you think.

With all due respect to Sam Falada, his is just one more opinion and his conclusions are based on the context he chooses, primarily retained energy, which is irrelevant in many situations.  If retained energy was the only significant factor, people would be choosing something else entirely, like a .300 Win Mag or maybe a .375 RUM.

Sam ignores the fact that dead is dead, or that the difference in retained energy is often so small as to be insignificant.  His discussion is not about a “deer only” cartridge but rather a general purpose cartridge, which changes things significantly.  He also glosses over the fact that the .270 Win delivers less recoil and ignores the fact that this is important to many people who find the .30-06 recoil more than they want to endure.

Yes, the .30-06 can deliver more energy downrange, but it does so at the cost of increased recoil.  If the bullets are punching through deer and expending much of that retained energy in the landscape beyond the deer, do minor differences in retained energy really make a big difference?  No.  Does a 20-25% increase in recoil make a difference to shooters?  In many cases, yes.

The fact is that the .270 Win will shoot flatter than the .30-06 and do so with 20-25% less recoil, while still delivering 1000fpe past 500 yards.  That is more than adequate for 99.9% of all deer killed, and where it is inadequate a .30-06 won’t make a significant difference.  If you want to beat your shoulder up for no gain, feel free.

My preference for Mauser-style extraction, and yes, controlled round feed as well, has nothing to do with dangerous situations but rather ease of use at the bench.  I tend to draw the bolt back slowly and angle the brass out where it can be easily plucked from the receiver, all with a single hand.  My Remington requires two-handed extraction to keep the brass from flying.  The controlled-round feed is less important to me but still comes in handy on occasion.  In either case, I have rifles with and without both features and manage to shoot them equally well.  At 57 I guess I’ve been in “big boy pants” for some years now and am quite capable of determining what I prefer, whether you agree or not.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline SuperstitionCoues

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 366
  • Gender: Male
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #181 on: September 04, 2008, 04:05:22 AM »
I would have to say a .25-06 with a 115 - 120 grain projectile; a premium bullet like a Hornady or Sierra.  I don't think the combination can be beat.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Offline Brithunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #182 on: September 04, 2008, 06:56:32 AM »
Hi All,

     Now today has been quite depressing, poor weather and high winds, so much for September. It's more liek November  >:( Then I logged on and read this and nearly choked on my Ham Sandwich I was laughing so much  ;D.

Personal attack removed by Graybeard. Don't make me have to do this again. If you can't stop the name calling and personal attacks go elsewhere to post. GB

    Excuse me I have to go bang my head on the Alter to the Mauser action  :P it needs darastic action to stop the laughing!

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #183 on: September 04, 2008, 07:12:53 AM »
I like to sacrifice a few Mausers on the alter myself.  I've never seen one that was accurate enough for precison shooting.  They are ok for vey big game at close range though.  They function, is about all you can say.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline federali

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #184 on: September 21, 2008, 08:38:57 AM »
I wouldn't be too concerned with blood trails unless you plan on wounding a lot of deer. The.270 is one of the all-time greats on deer sized game. It shoots dead flat and the 130 grain bullet rarely allows a whitetail to go more than a few feet assuming it was hit properly.

The Late Jack O'Connor put this cartridge on the map and he hunted with it all over the world. You might check your local library or perhaps pick up his tomes at reasonable cost on ebay or amazon. The new Winchester 270 WSM should do anything the older 270 Win can do.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #185 on: September 21, 2008, 02:56:48 PM »
Jack was a great salesman.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline kyotekiller25

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #186 on: September 21, 2008, 05:45:23 PM »
Nice to see all the quarterbore fans!!! Thought I was the only one.

I love the 25-06 for deer w/115g NBT's at 3200fps.  Might try a new load this year with the 115g VLD at 3260fps.  Then again, I also think the 7 RM w/140g NBT at 3250 is a superb LR deer getter.  Since being I own and use both though, I guess they dont count....

For an unbiased opinion, the .257 WM is one of the best LR deer cartridges out there, 115g NBT at 3400+fps is a deathray for deer.  I"m just to poor to afford a nice one or else I woudl have bought one a long time ago.  However due to funds, I went with the 25-06 and it hasn't let me down out to 600 yards on several mulies/whitetails.

The .270 winchester with a 140-150g NBT is also a superb LR deer cartridge and will kill them farther then 95% of people could hit them at.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #187 on: September 23, 2008, 02:47:04 AM »
Nice to see all the quarterbore fans!!! Thought I was the only one.
...
For an unbiased opinion, the .257 WM is one of the best LR deer cartridges out there,  ...

There are a lot of quarter-bore fans out there but as an all-around deer-only rifle I would probably choose the .270 Win over the .257 Weatherby.  That said, my favorite rifle is a .25 Roberts.

Was out hunting antelope this weekend.    On hunter in the group missed 4 shots at ranges of 150-275 yards with his braked 7mm Rem Mag.  I dropped mine at 125 yards with my Remington .308, one shot.  Longest and best shot for the day went to an old guy shooting a very nice Sako in  .243 Win – took the top of the heart at 276 lasered yards with a Speer Hot Cor. 

Wasn’t a shot presented where a .30-06 would have made any difference.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #188 on: September 23, 2008, 03:06:38 AM »
"Wasn’t a shot presented where a .30-06 would have made any difference."

There never is.  It does a good job no matter what.  It's boring......
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #189 on: September 23, 2008, 02:00:11 PM »
"Wasn’t a shot presented where a .30-06 would have made any difference."

There never is.  It does a good job no matter what.  It's boring......

"Not a difference for the good" was my point.  The little .243 Win did the job with "boring" efficience and far less recoil than the .30-06.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #190 on: September 23, 2008, 02:47:09 PM »
The .30-06 doesn't have any recoil as far as I can tell.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Brithunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #191 on: September 23, 2008, 03:16:12 PM »
The .30-06 doesn't have any recoil as far as I can tell.

Personal attack removed by Graybeard. Don't make me have to do this again. If you can't stop the name calling and personal attacks go elsewhere to post. GB

Oh the 30-06's noteable recoil was why the US army came up with it's training regim to avoid the new recruits developing flinches and keep them being able to actually hit the targets. Townsend Wheelan I believe involved with this program.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #192 on: September 23, 2008, 03:43:24 PM »
Maybe you blokes (and women) need something milder.  I don't think the .30-06 has any recoil.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #193 on: September 23, 2008, 04:02:37 PM »
Maybe you blokes (and women) need something milder.  I don't think the .30-06 has any recoil.

That you continue to spout such nonsense is why you have no credibility.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Brithunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #194 on: September 23, 2008, 04:13:19 PM »
Maybe you blokes (and women) need something milder.  I don't think the .30-06 has any recoil.

Personal attack removed by Graybeard. Don't make me have to do this again. If you can't stop the name calling and personal attacks go elsewhere to post. GB

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #195 on: September 23, 2008, 11:26:51 PM »
I'm not seeking credibility.  I'm merely stating fact.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Brithunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #196 on: September 24, 2008, 12:13:59 AM »
Dreams swampman .................. dreams not fact  ::)  as the fact is that the 30-06 does have recoil as it's also fact that the US army developed a training programe to get the recruits used to the recoil without flinching. Your just living in cloud cockoo land  ::)

Offline Old English

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Gender: Male
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #197 on: September 24, 2008, 01:44:48 AM »
The 30-06 has about 20ft/lns of recoil energy in an 8lb rifle. I do not consider this excessive, but it is not, "no recoil". I seem to notice that the rifle makes a very loud bang when I pull the trigger also.
Many people find both of these objectionable. I am not among them, but I understand. I am lucky enough to live in the country where I can shoot whenever I wish, familiarity leads to confidence as well as contempt.
I still agree with the majority, it is more gun than is required for deer. Yes it can do it, as can many, many other rounds. However, we all have choices and opinions.
Swampman, I see that you have made 1300+ posts, most seem to be advocating a Rem 700 in 30-06. I think we get the message. I agree you have a fine combo there but please give it a rest!

Offline Brithunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #198 on: September 24, 2008, 01:50:00 AM »
Ahhh but in the Remington Forum he says he is considering buying a CZ 452 rather than a Rem 504  ::) I believe he just tries to be contrary   :P

Offline Country Boy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 932
Re: Deer cartridge only ??????
« Reply #199 on: September 24, 2008, 05:56:14 AM »
Come on guys, let's not dish people and stick to the original question. People are going to believe what they want to. Just put it in the right spot and most  will work. It seems to me a deer rifle(caliber) depends on where you live and hunt.
   For me rifle fit is more important than caliber.