Deer cartridge only ??????

[Country Boy]

Winchester 88 .308 or .284 with good handloads.

[High Brass]

280 Rem or 280 Ackley Improved

[Freezer]

    Boy that was a lot of reading for nothing.  The subject is deer cartridge only!  Why would you want to shoot a shoulder busting, teeth rattling, ear splitting, magnum or big bore for deer?  
    I still contend that a mild recoil medium bore rifle is all that is required for deer.  Anybody that wants one cartridge for deer only has a limited agenda.  He probably doesn't visit the range as much as he would like, doesn't hand load so when he does go it gets expensive.  He won't need a cartridge that is hard to find at a gas station and will probably find one brand of ammo in one bullet weight then use that exclusively.  That said I don't like the 243 for that hunter.  243 on deer requires good shot placement and with limited pratice it's just not a good choice.  30-06 would be fine but there is less recoil and flatter trajectory with the 270.  Should this hunter ever change his mind and take a shot at a black bear or Elk the 270 will serve him well.  Equipped with a 3x9 Leupold this man could live out the old saying, "Beware the man who owns one gun...".
     Banen,  I agree with you about the 3x9 scope for most cases but, my 308 Savage lever wears a 2x7 Leupold, my Rem 700 in 280 is my distance gun so it wears a 4x12.  I believe with these two rifle/scope combos I have the lower fourty-eight covered.

[Swampman]

".30-06 would be fine but there is less recoil and flatter trajectory with the 270."

On paper maybe but not in the real world.  The .30-06 is better than all it's off spring.

[WyoStillhunter]

Five pages on this topic...I may have responded already...but tonight I am thinking "for deer only" .257 Roberts with 2-7X33 scope or equivalent.

[jasonprox700]

.270. .280, or .30-06.  My pick would be the .280, it will shoot heavier bullets than the .270, and is flatter than the .30-06. 

[Freezer]

    I like the 280 better than 270 and 06 but....
    Swampman, the reason the 270 has less recoil is because it shoots liter bullets.  Usually 130 gr bullets are the most accurate and most common deer weights in a 270 whereas 165 and up are usually the most accurate in an 06.  Weight of the rifle, weight of the powder charge and weight of the bullet are the factors used in calculating recoil.  For this man I would prefer a 260 of 6.5x55 but bullets selection and availability of commercial ammo is a factor here.

[Swampman]

I am quite familar with the .270 & .280.  I wouldn't own either.  I already have a .30-06.

[Freezer]

   OK....Good caliber choice!

[poncaguy]

I have 3  I use, 270 for many years and many deer, then the 270WSM which I love for the real long shots. and my 18 1/2 " Stevens 200 7-08 which is light and very handy to carry. All 3 are great deer rounds and accurate. This year  I'm using 3 different rounds, 260 Rem ,338 Federal and 35 Whelen...

[Coyote Hunter]

120gr bullet in a 7mag?  You are kidding, right? 

Nope.  The 120g TTSX shoot very well out of my Ruger 7mm RM, running a tad over 3400fps.  Wouldn't use it for elk but for deer and antelope, no sweat.

[Coyote Hunter]

Deerhunter10 –

Given your parameters (1600-1800fpe at 350 yards with mild to moderate recoil, nothing larger than large whitetail), you might as well pick what I consider to be the best deer-only cartridge available – the .270 Winchester.  A 130g bullet will give you around 1700fpe at 350 yards.

The fact that you have a 7mm Rem Mag eliminates the need, however, as it can easily be downloaded to equal performance and recoil levels.  And, as your long range confidence and skill increases, the 7mm RM can easily go further.  I’ve been shooting a 7mm RM since 1982 and although I have three .30-06’s and other rifles to choose from these days, I appreciate the 7mm RM more than ever.

That said, I don’t think you need 1600-1800fpe to kill large whitetail.  At 350 yards a .308, 7mm-08, .260 or .25-06 will do nicely.

[Coyote Hunter]

".30-06 would be fine but there is less recoil and flatter trajectory with the 270."

On paper maybe but not in the real world.  The .30-06 is better than all it's off spring.

In the real world, using rifles of equal weight and bullets of equal sectional density, and similar design (Partitions, for example), the .270 does in fact shoot flatter than the .30-06 and does so with substantially less recoil.

Let’s use Nosler 6th data and assume a rifle/scope weight of 8.3 pounds:

.270 , 130g Partition, .416 BC, 3158fps, 54g powder
.30-6, 150g Partition, .387 BC, 3056fps, 58g powder
.30-06, 165g Partition, .410 BC, 3002fps, 63g powder

Now let’s zero for Maximum Point Blank Range for a 6” diameter target (the bullet is never more than 3” above or below line of sight):
Cartridge/Bullet Weight = Zero range/MPBR
.270 Win/130g = 263/309
.30-06/150g = 254/298
.30-06/165g = 251/295

Recoil?
.270 Win/130g = 16.9fpe
.30-06/150g = 20.4fpe
.30-06/165g = 23.9fpe

The fact of the matter is that “better” is a subjective assessment and requires specific parameters to be used as the basis for comparison.  In this case the stated parameters included  mild to medium recoil with 1600-1800fps at 350 yards.  The .30-06 can provide the energy but generates significantly more recoil to even get close in terms of trajectory.  Looking only at the parameters provided, the .270 is a “better” fit for this particular application.

[Swampman]

Perhaps a tad flatter on paper, but never as accurately.  The recoil will feel exactly the same to the shooter.  The sub-.308 calibers should be avoided on deer sized game unless you can watch them run until they drop. 

[Coyote Hunter]

Perhaps a tad flatter on paper, but never as accurately.  The recoil will feel exactly the same to the shooter.  The sub-.308 calibers should be avoided on deer sized game unless you can watch them run until they drop. 

Never as accurately?  What kind of fantasy world do you live in?  Do you realize the 6.5's have won a number of 1000-yard matches, against .30's and oher calibers?  Do you believe this is because they are LESS accurate???

The "tad flatter" may or may not be important but the difference between 16.9fpe recoil for the .270 Win versus 20.4fpe or 23.9fpe for the .30-06 can easily make the difference between tolerable and intolerable recoil for some. 

The reduced recoil of the .270 Win also aids many people in shooting it more accurately.  Even if the .30 was more inherently accurate, the human factor must be considered as well when evaluating what really happens in the field.

You seem to be in love with the expression "on paper" as a means of dismissing the facts but you can't provide any specifics that prove your case.  In fact, the only place that a .30-06 can shoot as flat as a .270 with as little recoil is in that vast empty space between your ears.


 

[RaySendero]

Perhaps a tad flatter on paper, but never as accurately.  .....

Careful there Swamp,

For a minute there, I thought you were saying that a 270 isn't as accurate as a 30/06!?

[john keyes]

I am quite familar with the .270 & .280.  I wouldn't own either.  I already have a .30-06.

Swampman you are really painting yourself into a corner.  You hate everything but Remington, and now you hate .270 and .280.  That doesn't leave you with a whole lot.

I saw on Marlinowners that you hate the Model 7 and would not own another 7mm-08.

You're down to about none 'cept  a 700 in .30-06.

 

[kevthebassman]

Guys, Swampman has been doing this same act for as long as I've been here and probably longer.  He's got an uncontrollable case of verbal (or written, in this case) diarrhea when the subject is any cartridge besides the 30-06.

[Swampman]

I see no use for the 7mm-08, the .270, and the .280.  I never have.  They aren't 1/2 the cartridge the .30-06 is.

The Model 700 in .30-06 is the perfect hunting rifle.

[Old English]

Dang! So much for hunters sticking together. Let's act like adults and not squabble about models of rifles and calibers. I am sure that nobody has anything against an industry standard like the Rem 700 in 30-06 but it is not the only choice we have. Vive la difference as our European neighbors say.
I will use several calibers this season, just coz I can!

[Swampman]

And....

Just cause I can is reason enough for most folks.

As I grew older I realized, that I couldn't logically choose anything over the Remington 700 in .30-06 for big game hunting so I got rid of nearly everything else.

I did keep a Glenfield 30A in .30-30, a couple of Handi Rifles in plinking calibers, a Ruger 10-22, A Remington 514 in .22LR, 2 NEF single shot shotguns, and 2 S&W revolvers in .38 Special.

Most of these I kept because they were my father's guns.

Sooner or later the government will take them all,  I just trimmed my collection so I wouldn't lose my money.

[Drilling Man]

  Even though i am a big fan of the 700 Rem., and also the 30-06 cartridge, i have to say...  Anyone who "actually believes" that the .270 or .280 isn't "half" the cartridge the 30-06 is, just isn't a creditable poster.  When someone makes a statement like that, it pretty much makes anything else they say not believable too.

  I've shot  huge amounts of big game with the .280 and the 30-06, (mostly deer, bear, and caribou) so i know this from personal experience.

  DM

[Swampman]

As do I....

I wouldn't own any of the sevens for hunting.  They are a tad better than the .270 which I loathe.

[RaySendero]

And....
Just cause I can is reason enough for most folks.
.....
.....
Sooner or later the government will take them all,  I just trimmed my collection so I wouldn't lose my money.

REASON don't even come close to your thinking and I doubt "most folks" think like that!
Reason could be "that you prefer a 30/06".
Reason it not "loathe of the 270"!

You just can't fix stupid!



DM said it politely as GB forum allows:

Anyone who "actually believes" that the .270 or .280 isn't "half" the cartridge the 30-06 is, just isn't a creditable poster.  When someone makes a statement like that, it pretty much makes anything else they say not believable too.
.....

  DM

[Swampman]

I loathe the .270 because it was created to sell rifles to those who couldn't see that it was inferior to the .30-06 in every way.  Leading folks astray to make money off them just isn't right IMO.

[John R.]

All three are good cartridges. For strickly deer hunting the 270 or 280 shoots a shade flatter, but for bigger game the 06 handles the heavier bullets better. I like the 30-06, but to say the other 2 aren't half the gun is just plain ignorant.

[Freezer]

    Maybe you guys don't understand   Arguing with Swampman is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, before long you figure out the pig likes it

[Swampman]

& you lose.

[Graybeard]

& you lose.

Well not necessarily but you do end up dirty and smelling bad from the experience. Give it up Swampman you are beginning to sound sillier with each post on this subject. Sure the old '06 is an excellent round and not a bad choice for most anything ya want to hunt and hard to beat as an all round one gun one cartridge choice but for deer only there are acutally better. The 7-08 is from experience as good as it gets for deer and has less recoil.

I've used both on a bunch of deer. So far the 7-08 has made 100% one shot kills not only on deer but on all game we've used it on (we being me, my wife and my oldest son Bob) and I have to admit the '06 use by me has been a bit less than 100%. Yeah my fault not the bullet's fault but never the less it's less than 100% and the 7-08 is 100% on even more deer and other animals taken.

For deer ONLY the difference between the 7-08, .308, .270, .280 and .30-06 is not enough to discuss much less fill volumes as it has over the years. It's just something to keep magazine writers in business and give bored hunters waiting on deer season something to argue about or to cuss and discuss around a fire at night at camp.

[Swampman]

For me it boils down to if I'm going to choose a long action rifle the .30-06 does everything and more with the same rifle weight and felt recoil of it lesser siblings and most magnums.

If I were going to choose a short action rifle, the .308 does everything and more with the same rifle weight and felt recoil of it's lesser siblings and most short magnums.

Then it boils down to there no good reason to choose a short action rifle.

After 40+ years of hunting, shooting, and pondering the subject while sitting in blinds & stands all over the country, I could no longer convince myself that there was a good reason for the others to exist except to sell guns.

That's reason enough for most folks.  At 52 I just don't have time for being sold a bill of goods.