The "enlightened" Europeans...

[ironglow]

  A pity we Americans do not have such powers of common sense..
   A few years ago the Netherlands took the easy way out and legalized all the mind-warping drugs..so they have "needle parks" in the centers of Amsterdam, Rotterdam
  and small towns across the country. "Coffee shops" are a hangout for the marijuana & hashish addicted crowd...

   According to this morning's Fox News, now the Dutch lawmakers are doing the politically correct (and culturally stupid) thing ! They have outlawed smoking tobacco
   in public establishments..fines or imprisonment await the errant cigarette, cigar or pipe smoker.
       No smoking !  ..that should slow the drug use in the coffee shops, right ?   WRONG..smoking drugs will not be "infringed" upon ! In fact, some dopers have been
   mixing a bit of tobacco in with the noxious weed, hoping to not overstress brain cells.
    That is no longer permitted, folks that used to "lighten the load" with a bit of tobacco must roll 'em full strength !

   What brilliance ! ...And we have some politicians and judges that think we should emulate the Europeans in whatever they do..maybe they're smoking the same stuff !!

[rockbilly]

I spent a bit of time there while in the military.  The Dutch people are a very liberal bunch and condone things that would be totally unacceptable in Ameriican society. 

[BBF]

Just because the Netherlands are part of the EU doesn't mean all of the EU has these ultra liberal laws and views.

[nomosendero]

Yes, we forgot about the Lapplanders.

[crustaceous]

Your global vigilance never waviers, but I fear you've sounded the alarm too late!
Colorado's had a public smoking ban for two years and Mayor Hinkelooper (does that sound Dutch to you?) and the Denver City Council recently told the police to cease arresting citizens for minor possession!
Considering the impending mix of liberals, wackos, politicians and black guys this was no doubt a concession to the Demonrats who intend to have drug crazed orgies at their convention.
Thanks again for the heads up. I'll be keeping an eye out for wooden shoes in Colorado this summer!

[beemanbeme]

IMO a Denverite is merely a Californian in a down jacket.

[woodchukhntr]

The Europeans will someday wake up to find that they are Dhimmi's, non-Muslims subject to Muslim rule.  Boy, will all of the liberal, politically-correct politicians have a rude awakening!  They are giving their countries away to people who don't give a damn about political correctness.  Imagine, from total tolerance of any perversion to total intolerance!  Will the U.S. be willing to follow them then, or will it be too late for us?

[ironglow]

  Crusty;
  It seems you missed the point entirely ! There was no complaint about the tobacco smoking ban, even though I think forcing a ban on a public establishment where
   the owner, employees and customers all are in favor of smoking (tobacco) is a bit oppressive..
   ..And if Hickenlooper isn't Dutch, so what ! Still bet he's a Dem/Lib...eh ! ..
   
    It was an observation of more "liberal logic" in action.  The Dutch liberals like liberals in other places have chosen tobacco as a hate item, while having a love affair
    with the mind-bending stuff.  While tobacco has it's own hazards to present with at least 2 or 3 noxious chemicals, even though it has not been tested nearly
   so thoroughly, "loco weed" has some 40 as a starter . If the Dutch lawmakers had not made the stupid decision to legalize yet another dangerous smoking habit,
   then they would not have to choose between the two now !   Obviously my point was not any point against the Dutch...so much as a warning that the disease of
  liberalism may be spreading !   
         ...And while I consider your assertions that "Demonrats" may have "drug crazed orgies" at their convention a bit of hyperbole; I will leave it to the reader to
   decide for themselves which of the two major parties would be most amenable to wacky-weed parties !...   

    WChnter;
   You are very close to the conclusions drawn in Mark Steyn's new book "America Alone" (Regnery Publishing). He figures, after geo-political and demographic studies,
    that some countries in Europe have between 1 and 2 decades before they slide into just such a fix. Something tells me that it is possible that some day these liberal   
    lawmakers (or their children) will wake up with a "Sharia surprise"..that is close to the magnitude of the surprise today's Muslim terrorists wake uto in their overheated,
  firey, "land of virgins".
       From Steyn's research:

   What's the percentage of Muslims in Rotterdam ?...40%

   What is the most popular name for boys born in Belgium ?.....Mohammed !

                                                     "       "    " Malmo, Sweden ?...Mohammed !

                                                     "       "    "  Amsterdam, NL ?...Mohammed !

              The UK lags a bit, with Mohammed being the 5th most popular !

          Three things that helped fuel this demographic shift is the Muslim wish to dominate and the Euros liberal use of ...abortion (another liberal brainstorm), and the Euros
     turtning away from their Christian faith !  A philosophy cannot fight a faith.."Iron sharpens iron" (Prov 27:17). An evil faith can only be fought with another (true) faith. Fatih is on a
  higher plane than simple, man-made philosophies !

                                                   

   Steyn sees an America virtually an island alone, toward the end of the 21st century.....
 
     On the contrary If such a trend continues, I see the trend itself as a fulfilment of Biblical prophesy..I won't elaborate, but those familiar with Biblical prophesy will
   understand. The anti-Christ will need to have his "organization" in place when that occcurs...and it is almost ready...

   45-70;
   The Dutch are the ones that legalized all kinds of dope use, however...having lived in Europe years ago (for 2.5 years), I have found all west European couintries to be very
   liberal compared to us. My use of the term "Euro" is not indicating their monetary system, but rather a term I use to describe the Western European nations..

[AtlLaw]

   What is the most popular name for boys born in Belgium ?.....Mohammed !

                                                     "       "    " Malmo, Sweden ?...Mohammed !

                                                     "       "    "  Amsterdam, NL ?...Mohammed !

              The UK lags a bit, with Mohammed being the 5th most popular !

Is you ser-ous!?     what's your source?  Is this name that popular among non-moslims or are there that many moslims?

[deltecs]

ironglow

What is the most popular name for boys born in Belgium ?.....Mohammed !

                                                     "       "    " Malmo, Sweden ?...Mohammed !

                                                     "       "    "  Amsterdam, NL ?...Mohammed !

              The UK lags a bit, with Mohammed being the 5th most popular !   

IG, an update.   A few months ago I wrote in Today's Important News topic whereby the second most popular name in Great Britain is Mohammed.      http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,133127.0.html 

[zombiewolf]

Netherlands Has not legalized any of this stuff.
If you want to review their drug policy, here's the link.http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/Com-e/ille-e/library-e/dolin1-e.htm#C.%20%20Current%20Legislation%20and%20Enforcement
And here's some of it for those of you who are linkaniod.

 1.  Overview of Penalties

 

                        The possession of all scheduled drugs is an offence, but possession of a small quantity of “soft” drugs for personal use is a minor offence.  Generally, it is tolerated by law enforcement, particularly within the regulated coffee shop system, discussed in the following section.  Importing and exporting are the most serious offences under the Act.  The maximum penalty for importing or exporting hard drugs is 12 years’ imprisonment and a fine of Dfl. 100,000 (guilders).([3])  Anyone found in possession of a quantity of hard drugs for personal use is liable to a penalty of one year’s imprisonment and a fine of 10,000 guilders.  The maximum penalty for importing or exporting soft drugs is four years’ imprisonment and a fine of 100,000 guilders.  Habitual offenders are liable to a maximum penalty of 16 years’ imprisonment and a fine of 1,000,000 guilders.  Moreover, offenders may be deprived of any money or property gained from their offence.

                        The Netherlands also has guidelines for sanctions that the Public Prosecutor is directed to seek, based on:  the type of drug involved, the amount of the drug, and the specific offence.  The following tables set out the current (1996) guidelines.([4])

 

SCHEDULE I SUBSTANCES (“HARD DRUGS”)

Offense
   

Amount
   

Sanction to be Sought([5])

Possession
   

< 0.5 g or < 1 user unit
   

Police Dismissal

0.5-5 g or 1-10 user units
   

1 week - 2 months

Possession with Dealer Indication (i.e., intent to sell)
   

<15 g or <30 user units
   

Up to 6 months

15-300 g or 30-600 user units
   

6-18 months

> 300 g or > 600 user units
   

18 months - 4 years

Street or Home Dealing
   

< 1 g
   

Up to 6 months

1-3 g
   

6-18 months

>3 g
   

18 months - 4 years

Middle-level Dealing
   

<1 kg
   

1-2 years

> 1 kg
   

2+ years

Wholesale Trade
   

> 5 kg
   

6-8 years

Import and Export
   

< 1 kg
   

Up to 3 years

> 1 kg
   

3-12 years

 

SCHEDULE II (“SOFT DRUGS”)

Offence
   

Amount
   

Sanction to be Sought([6])

Possession, Preparing, Processing, Sale, Delivery, Supply, Transporting or Manufacturing
   

Up to 5 g
   

Police Dismissal

5-30 g
   

Fine of Dfl. 50-150

30 g-1 kg
   

Fine of Dfl. 5-10 per g

1-5 kg([7])
   

Fine of Dfl. 5,000-10,000 and 2 weeks per kg

5-25 kg
   

Max. fine of Dfl. 25,000 and 3-6 months

25-100 kg
   

Max. fine of Dfl. 25,000 and 6-12 months

> 100 kg
   

Max. fine of Dfl. 25,000 and 1-2 years

Cultivation
   

Up to 5 plants
   

Police Dismissal

5-10 plants
   

Dfl. 50 per plant (repeat offenders:  Dfl. 75 per plant)

10-100 plants
   

Dfl. 25 per plant and/or ½ day per plant

100-1,000 plants
   

Max. fine Dfl. 25,000 and 2-6 months

>1,000 plants
   

Max. fine Dfl. 25,000 and 6 months - 2 years

Import & Export
   

The Act does not distinguish between quantities, but in practice the prosecutor’s sentence recommendation will correspond to the quantity divisions for possession.
   

Sanctions for possession may be doubled to a maximum of 4 years and a maximum fine of Dfl. 100,000

 

      2.  Cannabis

                        Possession of small amounts of cannabis for personal use has been decriminalized in Holland.  The sale of cannabis is technically an offense under the Opium Act, but prosecutorial guidelines provide that proceedings will only be instituted in certain situations.  An operator or owner of a coffee shop (which is not permitted to sell alcohol) will avoid prosecution if he/she meets the following criteria:

·        no more than 5 grams per person may be sold in any one transaction;

·        no hard drugs may be sold;

·        drugs may not be advertised;

·        the coffee shop must not cause any nuisance;

·        no drugs can be sold to minors (under age 18), nor may minors enter the premises; and

·        the municipality has not ordered the establishment closed.

 Oh and btw U.S drug use per capita is way more than the Netherlands!

[zombiewolf]

More current...

Holland / The Netherlands

The Dutch Drugs Situation and Policy

 The Netherlands government adopted a liberal attitude to cannabis use and the use of drugs, in the 1970's. They allowed cannabis to be sold from youth centres and coffee shops, predominantly in Amsterdam and did not prosecute for possession. This was also an attempt to divorce the supply of cannabis from that of drugs. The coffee shops left the hard drug dealers out and kept them out. Meanwhile the liberal attitude to drug takers and addicts manifested by considering such people as patients rather than criminals, giving them true education and a clean supply. This did not wean many drug users off drugs, but it did clean up the supply, take it out of the hands of heroin dealers and reduce risks of overdose or death or illness from impurities.
The result of the Dutch experiment was to see that whilst the number of cannabis users initially increased it soon levelled off in about 1983. The use of hard drugs did not increase as fast in Holland as it did in neighbouring countries such as France, Germany and the UK. One thing which did develop was the appearance of the 'cannabis tourist', people from other countries visiting Holland for cannabis. This actually brought revenue to the Dutch and was welcome. Of course if the same situation existed in other countries this may never have happened. The Dutch report that cannabis use causes no social problems.
In 1996 international pressure forced the Dutch to reduce the amount of cannabis permitted for personal use from 30 to 5 grams; this is what decriminalisation can do.

Smoking Ban Could Close Cannabis Cafes: the Guardian, 29 May 2003

Dutch Parliament For Legalisation Of Soft Drugs: de Volkskrant, 22 April 2003http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n573.a02.html

Facts vs Foreign Pressure: Can The New Dutch Government Close Coffeeshops? March 2003http://www.ccguide.org.uk/nolvanshaikmarch03.php
THE NETHERLANDS CAN LEGALISE INDEPENDENTLY

The question of whether legalisation of drugs would be desirable is often cut short by the idea that legalisation solely in the Netherlands is impossible because international treaties stand in the way. This is a misconception. First of all, the Netherlands could withdraw from these treaties. But this is not even necessary. The drug treaties which the Netherlands have entered into constitute no impediment to the "expediency principle" that applies in our country. This principle entails that the Public Prosecution Department is not obliged to prosecute criminal offences if it does not deem such to be "expedient" or useful. On the basis of this principle the Dutch policy of tolerating the sale and use of soft drugs has been able to develop. At first this policy caused opposition. However, in recent years the appreciation is growing, and in some countries even further steps have been taken.
Some recent developments:
Germany: The Constitutional Court decided on April 28, 1994 that the possession of soft drugs for personal use need no longer be prosecuted. Since then, most German regional governments now tolerate the sale and use of soft drugs. Colombia: on May 5, 1994 the Court of Constitutional Law passed the motion that possession of cannabis and cocaine are considered, in constitutional terms, to be protected by the right to individual freedom.
Switzerland: several cities, including Zurich, dispense hard drugs to addicts already for a year.
France: The advisory commission-Henrion, set up by the former government under president Mitterand, advised to depenalize the use of soft drugs and to do the same at a later stage with the production and sale. The largest possible minority of this committee was in favour of applying the same to hard drugs.
Secretary-general Raymond Kendall from Interpol has proposed to no longer penalise the possession of drugs. He considers drugs to be a health and social problem rather than a judicial issue.
In our opinion the most "expedient" way of regulating the drug problem in the short term is to expand the application of the present "expediency principle" to all drugs in accordance with the system that will be explained in the following chapters. It is remarkable that our system is more in keeping with the treaties than the present Dutch policy of tolerance.
The umbrella treaty concerning drugs is the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs of New York, signed in 1961. It received its name because it encompassed all miscellaneous agreements up until that time. Later treaties, such as the Protocol of Geneva of 1972 and the Convention on drug and psychotropic substances signed in Vienna in 1988, do not infringe on its scope and purpose.
The preamble of the "Single Convention" states that the members are committed to combat the evil of drug addiction (.."Conscious of their duty to prevent and combat this evil").
Article 22 reads: "Whenever the prevailing conditions in the country or a territory of a Party render the prohibition of the cultivation of the opium poppy, the coca bush or the cannabis plant the most suitable measure, in its opinion, for protecting the public health and welfare and preventing the diversion of drugs into the illicit traffic, the Party concerned shall prohibit cultivation".
In other words one could read this as follows: if, on the other hand, a country considers legalisation to be a better option for protecting the public health and the fight against the illegal drug trade, that country need not ban production. In such a case, what should be done is stated in article 23 on poppies (= opium and heroin): the country should then establish a National Opium agency.
Art. 23 sub 1: A Party that permits the cultivation of the opium poppy for the production of opium shall establish, if it has not already done so, and maintain, one or more government agencies (hereafter in this article referred to as the Agency) to carry out the functions required under this article.
Art. 23 sub 2: Each such Party shall apply the following provisions to the cultivation of the opium poppy for the production of opium and to opium:
a: The agency shall designate the areas in which, and the plots of land on which, cultivation of the opium poppy for the purpose of producing opium shall be permitted.
b: Only cultivators licensed by the Agency shall be authorised to engage in such cultivation.
c: (....).
d: All cultivators of the opium poppy shall be required to deliver their total crops of opium to the Agency (....).
e: The Agency shall, in respect of opium, have the exclusive right of importing, exporting, wholesale, trading and maintaining stocks other than those held by manufacturers of opium alkaloids, medicinal opium, or opium preparations (....).
Article 28 stipulates the same for cannabis (marihuana and hash). Similar regulations apply to cocaine and other drugs. The semi-legal production and distribution of soft drugs that has existed in the Netherlands already for more than 20 years does not comply with the condition that there should be a government controlled agency. Our proposal includes the foundation of such a national drug agency.
Legalisation will serve public health in a much better way, and it makes it easier for the police and the public prosecutions department to fight the remaining drug trade, which will mainly be export.
Withdrawal from international agreements or negotiations with treaty partners are therefore not necessary. When the Dutch approach receives international support and recognition, one could consider to amend the treaties to legalise the regulation. Only then will legalisation become formal. Since with our plan drugs would become legal in actual fact, we further refer to this "actual legalisation" as simply: legalisation.
Drug prohibition is increasingly under attack internationally. If the Netherlands switch to legalisation, other countries will not necessarily disapprove. It may well be that amazement abroad will change into interest, just as has happened with the Dutch policy on soft drugs.
There seems to be enough room in international politics for legalisation within the Netherlands, provided that: illegal export from the Netherlands could be fought at least as strongly as at present, and legalisation in the Netherlands should not become a magnet for foreign drug tourists.
If the conditions can be fulfilled, the Netherlands will also comply with the 1990 Schengen Agreement, which leaves the way in which drugs are dealt with to each participating country, but also demands that the policies of the other countries should not be impeded. Our plan satisfies both conditions, as we will show in the following chapters. Our proposal builds on the existing distinction between the distribution of soft drugs and that of other drugs.
Thanks to Mario Lap for the above

[ironglow]

ZW;
  I am not interested in illegal drugs enough that I would make a case study of anybody's ultra permissive laws; I have no use for illicit drugs and never have had !
  Such weakness should be helped by removing the drug source..not by giving in to sniveling addiction !
  There is no secret about the widespread use of drugs in the Netherlands and the autrhorities tolerance for/toward it ! A clear sign of a declining  culture..

  AtlLaw;
    My source, which in turn comes from official demographic records is a current NY Times bestseller "America Alone" by Mark Steyn (chapter 1, page 6).
  It is it is published by Regnery, an Eagle publishing co. Washington, D.C.
  The book can be ordered from    www.worldnetdaily.com/   or you may be able to do as I have done..have your local library get it through the system
  so you can borrow it. There is probably a review at World Net Daily or Amazon..

[SHOOTALL]

Let me offer my out of  the box thinking , the world is over populated . drugs kill . reduced population !
The smart people won't use them ( inteligent people might but not smart people ) . In the end we will have smart people .
SIMPLE !

[beemanbeme]

Let's extend that thinking to why are we warehousing drug dealers, killers, rapist, and people of that ilk because a few hot-button liberals don't want to get their hands dirty and do the needed thing? We build ever bigger prisons and waste ever more money for a lost cause. On the rare occasion when one of those violent people say they are changed for the better and renounce their despicable former lifestyle, the liberals throw their hats in the air and high five and shout hallelujah as if one out of one hundred thousand is worth the millions it has cost. 
Let's extend that thinking to why does it take ten to fifteen years to kill someone on death row?

[SHOOTALL]

having to save up for the juice maybe since the fuel is so high ?

[ironglow]

Beeman;
  You have hit the proverbial nail on the head !
   
  Here again; the major hangup to such progress is by the very people that mislabel trhemselves "progressive".. *^%$#*@ liberals !

  One that really gets me is that monster for instance, that murdered little Jessica Lunsford by torturing her with his evil acts and then burying her alive !
  A snake like that deserves not just a death sentence..but one at least equivalent to the death he caused that innocent little child !
  The people he lived with should get the same, since they obviously knew what the brute was doing..and allowed Jessica to be tortured and killed !

   As far as I know, he has not been given the death penalty..correct me if I am wrong..In any case tyhe monster is likely to die of old age before he gets snuffed !

[beemanbeme]

Rope is cheap.  And environmentally friendly if you use hemp.