Question about seeds?

[DalesCarpentry]

I have a question about seeds. Every year I plant Tomatoes, Cucumbers, Green Beans, Green Bell Peppers, Mild Bannana Peppers and I planted some Pumpkins for the first time this year. Every year I have Tomatoes come up from some of the ones that fell on the ground the year before. The thing is when they come up I have no idea what kind of Tomatoes they are because I plant three different kinds of them. It seems it is usually the Roma's and the Cherry tomatoes that come up so I have to go buy some Beef steak plants. I have had cucumbers come up a couple times on their own to. I noticed this year that seeds have gone way up in price. I was wondering if after harvest I took the seeds from what I have grown this year and dried them out if I could plant them next year? I wonder if they would produce ok? Dale

[Old Syko]

Very simple process.  Tomatoes for example; I separate the seeds using a fine wire sieve by rinsing the seeds with water until the seeds are all that is left.  Lay the seeds on a dry towel to dry overnight and put them in a plastic bag until next year.  Peppers, cantalope, watermelon, shoot just about everything works the same way.  I start my seeds in covered seed trays in January or February for planting the last of April or first of May.  I'm planting some of the same strains of produce that have been used for many years.

[jvs]

Dale,

     I often wondered when you would find this forum.  Welcome.

You have to watch when it comes to planting seeds from last years crop.  Hybrid vegetables don't breed true.  A Hybrid is usually a cross between two or more of a vegetable, and when you plant the seeds, they will revert back to the weakest parent.  While tomatoes like Beefsteak grow good for the year they were engineered for, they don't do well at all when you use the seeds the following year.

If you use a seed from a plant that is not a hybrid, it should give you the same results that you had last year.  Cherry Tomato's are a good example of that.   THe cherry tomato seeds left behind in your garden from last year will more than likely sprout and produce just as good as they did last year without buying another batch this year.  Not so with the hybrids though.

[DalesCarpentry]

Thanks for the welcome. I guess that is why it seems only the Cherry Tomatoes and the Romas come up year after year on their own. Thanks Dale

[Old Syko]

I've heard and read of the warnings about hybrids for longer than I can remember and still to this day cannot confirm them.  In fact I've found that as long as you save seed from a specimen with the strongest traits you wish to obtain, they will repeat year after year.  As an example I now grow a huge pink and yellow tomato that is touted as a low acid hybrid that is now larger and sweeter than the original I obtained 30 years ago.  I know this goes against all thought to be correct wisdom, but when I set down to the table what i produce tastes much better than the pages all of this accepted wisdom is printed on.  I guess I'm just a strong believer in the theory that strong genetics win out.

[jvs]

You could be right too Old Soyko.  I have related what I have heard any number of times.  But that doesn't mean it's right.

I do know, as Dale related, that Cherry Tomatoes will produce like crazy, just from the small tomato seeds left in your garden over winter.   As a matter of fact, I just found two Grape Tomato Plants growing in my garder that I didn't plant.

Years ago I did try saving seeds from Big Boys and Beefsteak, with no luck at all.  The plants were small and scrawny and never bloomed nor produced.  Maybe cross bred is different than Genetically altered, which I am sure the Pink and White tomato's are. 

I suppose it will be a trail and error exercise.  Dale can fill us in on what works.

[DalesCarpentry]

The reason I asked the original question was about 10 years ago I had a neighbor that bought Green Bell Peppers from the store. He dried the seeds and planted them in the spring. They grew nice and big but but never flowered hence no peppers. From what you guys have said maybe those peppers he bought were some type of Hybrid. I know about the same time I bought some of the best tasting Red Delious Apples I have ever eaten. It is sometimes hard to find a real good tasting apple. Anyways I dried the seeds from a couple of them and germinated them. I planted them and they grew. I moved away from there before they got big enough to bear fruit. So I have no idea weather they ever produced or not. Dale

[Old Syko]

Funny you should mention bell peppers.  This year I have bell pepper plants that came from Bonnie plants out of Alabama that are producing fist sized + fruit on plants that are at best 12" tall.  My own seedlings were messed up because of a mistake on my part and had to be restarted late.  My plants are presently 2 1/2' tall like normal and full of blooms but will produce late this year.  Best i can tell ya is that strange things happen sometimes. 

I planted sweet corn this year (seed that was new to me) that goes by the name of Bodacious.  Was told it would average 7' tall and produce like crazy.  It has presently tasseled out and is producing at 3 to 4' in height.  Strange things happen.

Just for giggles, pick up an assortment of fruit and save the seeds for next year and see what grows and what don't.  Save the best of what works and dump the rest.  Nature has a way of taking care of itself.  If something doesn't work it may be because it wasn't supposed to in the first place.  Survival of the fittest.   

[Ranger J]

You also have to watch out if you plant two open pollinated verities close to each other.  They will sometimes naturally cross pollinate and produce hybrids.  Gourds are a good example of this.  All the large thick shelled gourds are the same species and are grown for a given shape just as all dogs are the same species and are bred for a shape.  Just as 'pure bred' dogs will cross if given a chance (three out of 4 of my dogs are proof of this) so will the gourds.  Unlike the dogs the change in shape will not show in the first year's crop.  If you plant the seeds from those gourds you may get the same shape as the gourd you took the seed out of or more likely you will get some shape in between the two parent gourd shapes.  In other words you will get a mutt gourd.  Not that is necessary bad as the shapes of these gourds can be interesting just as a mutt dog can be a good dog.  This can hapen to most verities of vegetables if they are not separated from each other.  In gourds you need to keep them 200 yards apart to preserve a given shape.  Dogs are even more difficult.

RJ

[Old Syko]

Good point Ranger.  BTW, don't have to tell me about the dogs.  I have 6 "hybrids" to feed as we speak.     Never dealt with gourds much but I had to start over with my cantaloupe seed a few years ago because they crossed with some cucumbers.  Absolutely nasty outcome.  They looked like really nice melons but the taste was the shock of a lifetime.

[DalesCarpentry]

Good point Ranger.  BTW, don't have to tell me about the dogs.  I have 6 "hybrids" to feed as we speak.     Never dealt with gourds much but I had to start over with my cantaloupe seed a few years ago because they crossed with some cucumbers.  Absolutely nasty outcome.  They looked like really nice melons but the taste was the shock of a lifetime.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! I have to say I am learning more from this question than I ever dreamed. I had no idea that could happen. I did plant some hot peppers to close to my mild peppers one year and it made the mild ones hot. Dale

[jvs]

Uh oh....... I have Hot Peppers planted next to Zuchinni.  This could be interesting.

One thing I will pass on is something I read about years ago concerning Apple Seeds.  Apple seeds MUST go through a dormant period before germination.  The way it was explained to me is that you should plant the seeds about an inch deep, and water the soil in the pot so it is moist but not sopping wet.  Then you put the pot in a plastic bag and put the bag in the bottom drawer of the refrigerator for 3 months.  This takes care of the dormant period, which is fooling the seeds into a fake winter period apple seeds need for germination.  After you take them out of the fridge, they should sprout.  If they don't... toss them out.

Recently, I looked up the process for Cherry seeds, and these same steps were recommended for those too.  Apparently a dormant period is important for fruit seeds.

[DalesCarpentry]

Uh oh....... I have Hot Peppers planted next to Zuchinni.  This could be interesting.

One thing I will pass on is something I read about years ago concerning Apple Seeds.  Apple seeds MUST go through a dormant period before germination.  The way it was explained to me is that you should plant the seeds about an inch deep, and water the soil in the pot so it is moist but not sopping wet.  Then you put the pot in a plastic bag and put the bag in the bottom drawer of the refrigerator for 3 months.  This takes care of the dormant period, which is fooling the seeds into a fake winter period apple seeds need for germination.  After you take them out of the fridge, they should sprout.  If they don't... toss them out.

Recently, I looked up the process for Cherry seeds, and these same steps were recommended for those too.  Apparently a dormant period is important for fruit seeds.

Thats weird then. The apple seeds I germanated sprouted without having to do that. All I did was dry them out for a couple weeks. I then nicked the seed with a knife. I read that in a book. That was before I had a computer. I took the seeds and put them in a damp paper towel ( keeping it damp the whole time ) and they sprouted I think in about a week or so. I then planted them. When I moved from there the trees were only about a foot tall. Dale

[torpedoman]

i always save some of the seeds to replant and have been known to take seed out of produce the wife brings from the store they all grow.

[DalesCarpentry]

i always save some of the seeds to replant and have been known to take seed out of produce the wife brings from the store they all grow.

Would you please list the seeds you have taken from your wife's produce that grew and produced. Thanks Dale

[torpedoman]

cherry and grape tomatos, bell pepper, anahiem pepper, got some grapes started will see if they work out, I usually dry and freeze seeds  to give them a "winter" then start the bell ,anahiem peppers and tomatoes seeds i just stuck in a starter pot and they came up.

[jvs]

Dale,


Check out this web page: http://www.backyardgardener.com/treeboard/messages/1620.html

It explains how it could be done with Cherry Seeds.   Apple seeds have the same procedure.

[DalesCarpentry]

Dale,


Check out this web page: http://www.backyardgardener.com/treeboard/messages/1620.html

It explains how it could be done with Cherry Seeds.   Apple seeds have the same procedure.

JVS here is a quote from that site.The seeds of all common tree fruits (apple, pear, peach, and cherry) require a
chilling period before they will germinate and form new plants. The chilling
period occurs after the fruit portion is ripe. This period is known as either
dormancy or after ripening. During this period the embryo develops until it
is mature. This is accomplished by subjecting the seeds to a cold treatment.

All I can say to this is it is a crock. I did not do that with my apple seeds and they did germinate. Dale

[Old Syko]

Never tried apples but you won't get cherries any other way.  Have to be careful not to freeze them also.

[jvs]

All I can say to this is it is a crock. I did not do that with my apple seeds and they did germinate. Dale

All I did was show you what is the acceptable scientific way of using Fruit Seeds that you want to grow yourself.  I did NOT assume to suggest that it is the only way to grow from seeds.  That belongs to the Fruit Tree Experts, like the PhD that has that web page.

If you tried it another way and it worked, that's ok too.  But that doesn't mean that the information from an educated individual on the web page is 'Crock'.  I don't doubt your word, nor do I doubt his.  As long as you get a tree that produces, I don't think it matters much.