Little girl raped and murdered by "sex ring" in Vermont..

[ironglow]

   
  These perverts KNOW where to go to practice their cruelty upon little children..go to Vermont..they don't get punished there !

  Vermont authorities don't believe in punishing child sex offenders..they believe in treating such with "kid gloves" ! The perps in
  this case were finished with their "Vermont rehab" after a previous child rape crime; then turned loose to do more of the same!
  they were theoretically, under the watch care of Vermont "authorities"..

    I truly feel regret for the children of Vermont.. the state doesn't protect it's children..
       
       I have an old Army buddy in Vermont, who is of decent, "old Vermont" stock..good people ! Unfortunately the great natural
  beauty of the state has worked against it . The radical liberals and Birkenstockers have moved there in droves and virtually destroyed
  the wonderful old Vermont of earlier generations. This kind of damage results wherever liberals get major control..

   ...Something to think about !    ..especially with the approaching elections..
   

[jlchucker]

Ironglow, your letter is right to the point.  I was born and raised in Vermont, (3d generation).  This state is now exactly like you describe it, and for the very same reasons.  The legislature and judiciary have been polluted by protecters of perverts who care nothing about public safety.  Just last nite a friend of mine-a lady who lives alone in the country, was relating a tale about a stalker who has now been annoying her for more than a year.  At one point she was denied a restraining order because the judge said there had been no assault and no blood.  What in hell kind of judgement is that?  No blood from a woman terrorized in her own home?  Unfortunately its the same sort of judgement that last year a judge named Cashman rendered that made national news. A legislator named Lippert single-handedly blocked a vote on a Jessica's Law bill, then accused the O'Reilly Factor of picking on him because he happened to be gay, in a segment that showed Lippert and his legislative cronies attempting to censor Fox reporters in the State House.  O'Reilly never once mentioned anything about this legislator being gay.  Today we have the news story about the girl who was found dead after an Amber Alert and some extensive police work.  I have to wonder what sort of easy sentence will be rendered as this case winds its way thru our corrupt system.  Vermont has chased away most of its good people and business base in a tradeoff for tourism.  It would appear that the tourists who stayed here to take over are representative of the very worst in American Society.

[DalesCarpentry]

I think they should castrate these scum bags and then string them up. Dale

[buckbeast]

I think they should castrate these scum bags and then string them up. Dale

And bring back public stonings!

[beemanbeme]

I didn't see the link or whatever that you used to indite the entire state of Vermont but you can't truly blame Vermont. No more than you can blame Texas for what is spinning out there. It's become universal. We are a mobile society; a whimsical society. Instant communications. A society that has watched TV 14 hours a day since they could sit unaided and has problems discerning reality from a TV show. An overindulged, jaded society that needs greater and greater stimulation.  A society that is only too aware that justice is not sure nor is it swift. A court system that is too bogged down determining that a 6 yo that kisses a classmate must be listed as a sex offender while cases of merit back up on the calender.
 I skimmed an article the other day where a court had decided that forcable rape of a child, while traumatic to the child, wasn't severe enough --like murder-- to warrant the death penalty. I say skimmed because child abuse upsets me so that I often play ostrich.
If a person feels that life in prison is a harsher punishment that execution, then surely rape is a harsher crime than murder.  
I won't give you a long thesis on behavior modification as I am without portfolio but at AA they tell you: "you are a drunk that has been a long time w/o a drink." & "You are one drink away from the gutter again."  I haven't smoked in over 20 years but I know I am one cigarette away from being back to 2+ packs a day.  My point is, those people that think they are "rehabbing" sexual offenders; behaviour modifying sexual criminals are jokes.  Those people may talk that talk to make their handlers think they have succeeded but that intent is still there. That lust.  If that chimp knows there is a banana behind that red door and you start giving him a shock when he touches it, he'll still touch it every so often just to make sure.
This all leads back to a plaint I made in another thread: Why are we warehousing these people in the first place?  Why is  a person spending  10-15 years on dead row?  

[rex6666]

Well i guess we can compair Vermont and Texas but just don't see how you get AA mixed up in this.
From what you say, i am very glad i do not go to your AA group.

[SHOOTALL]

Did anyone stop to think that the people making the rules may be doing the crime and to set harsh punishment would be to condem themselves to it , if they get caught !
I really can't think of another reason to think like they do !

[gypsyman]

What I'm wondering about this story, all I've heard about is a step father and his brother. Anybody know anything about her mother and real father? Seems like most case's like this, it involves a divorced mother, and a boy friend.Who knows where the real dad is at.  gypsyman

[SHOOTALL]

most likely at the gun store !

[AtlLaw]

Is this what y'all are talking about?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080703/ap_on_re_us/missing_girl

[billy_56081]

  Ya know I also wonder where these childrens fathers are? If my child was sexually abused the perpetrator better beg to stay in prison. I would kill them, and anyone who knows me personally knows I would.  And to those who think these poor souls can be"reformed" I have a cousin who works in the state hospital with these animals and after 30 years of working with them he says in his opinion there is no chance for these animals to change.

[ms]

These are the same people that think boys  and girls should be able to take showers together in school.

[ironglow]

 Beeman;
  Recently there has been a rash of decisions coming out of Vermont courts (I was surprised also) that have simply refused to give any real punishment to the
  worst child molestation offenders..and the legislature will not change anything, because they refuse to enact such things as Megan's law and Jessica's law..
  There was one case where a brute raped his live-in girlfriend's daughter for something like 5 years, say from 8-13..and the "judge" hit him HARD..probation..
  O'Reilly has been hitting Vermont hard on this..but none of the principals involved will take the offer to come on O'Reilly's show and straighten him out !

  Billy;
         Of course I do not know the circumstances..but these things seem to occur an inordinate amount where there are a continuing series of "dads" in the house.
  I don't know the situation, so it may not be that way at all..but often such is the case !

[Beers]

I was deeply disappointed with the recent SCOTUS decision regarding the death penalty for rapists and child molesters. I can't figure out why people imagine these people can be "rehabilitated". Or how death could be construed as "cruel and unusual punishment" for someone who would violate another human being in that manner. You'd think none of them had kids... To h*** w/ 'em, if it was my daughter (or wife, sister, niece, mother) whoever it was would beg me for death. Look up the recidivism rates among convicted rapists/pedophiles... It's ridiculous.

I'm usually a pretty forgiving guy, but I can think of a few appropriate medieval devices that should be revived for anyone who rapes a child.

[alsaqr]

The cops scarfed up the ex husband of the girls mother for having sex with a minor.  Something is basically wrong with a mother who allows her 12 year old daughter to be around a convicted sex offender, even if the scumbag is her uncle by marriage or her step-father.   Here we have two sisters, both married to sex offenders.  What the hell is wrong with these women.   

You can talk about TX all you want.  In TX that scumbag would not have been let out of prison unsupervised after a feel good "rehabilitation" class.  I worked in a prison as a CO.  All the counselors and shrinks told us that a pervert who rapes or molests kids will never quit until he is executed or locked up for.   

[ironglow]

  Tm;
  when you make a statement concerning Vermont such as you did, saying "but perhaps IG can get a movement together to bomb them"..

  Do you realize how totally ridiculous you sound ?

  jlchucker..born & raised there, tells you what it is like. Any problem with the read ?

[beemanbeme]

If the link that AL provided is the correct one, then I am more confused than ever.  Suddenly we have a unmentioned ex step father appear.  The State of Vermont can't determine if the girl was killed??  She was awfully dead wasn't she?  The article raises more questions than it answers. Among others, was the guy a transit or was he a local?  Apparently he'd been around since back in the 90's. While it makes for good, sensational copy, I think AL and Dukkiller will agree that testimony from children is among the most unreliable. FWIW.

Rex, my point about Vermont and Texas was an illustration of the mobility of the US population.  And while I don't go to AA, I have had occasion to inter act with some that did and I was a heavy smoker for 30 years.  A smoker or drinker will tell you that the craving never truly leaves you.  I used that as an ill lustration that the sexual deviant is never truly "cured" despite what the rehab people would have you believe.  That contention was supported by Billy's post about his cousin.

[Sitting Duck]

Normally, I would say this is family business and should be taken care of by the family.  But, apparently, there was no family in the traditional sense.

What a crazy world we live in.  I saw an internet video of some idiot bouncing a baby off of an inflatable pillow of some type.  For entertainment, I guess.  What the hell have our morals been reduced to?

Sorry for digressing but the video still bugs me.

With regard to the topic at hand.  We would put any other animal down for what these people did.  Twisted minds deserve nothing more than real fast bullets.  It's a shame there isn't family to do the trigger pulling part.  The government won't.   



 

[DalesCarpentry]

Normally, I would say this is family business and should be taken care of by the family.  But, apparently, there was no family in the traditional sense.

What a crazy world we live in.  I saw an internet video of some idiot bouncing a baby off of an inflatable pillow of some type.  For entertainment, I guess.  What the hell have our morals been reduced to?

Sorry for digressing but the video still bugs me.

With regard to the topic at hand.  We would put any other animal down for what these people did.  Twisted minds deserve nothing more than real fast bullets.  It's a shame there isn't family to do the trigger pulling part.  The government won't.   



 

There was a man arested today in Pittsburgh for child endangerment. He was watching a 3 year old child and got angry the child soiled it's diapers. So he goes and dips the child in scolding water. The child received second degree burns. I think someone should dip him in boiling water. Dale

[DalesCarpentry]

Here is the story. Dale         PITTSBURGH -- A Cleveland man faces charges of burning a North Side toddler by placing him in hot water.

Herbert Jamison, 22, is in the Allegheny County jail on charges of aggravated assault and endangering the welfare of a child.

Allegheny General Hospital alerted detectives to a possible case of child abuse.

When officers arrived, they learned the 3-year-old boy had apparent burns on his lower body, blisters on his ankles, and a handprint impression on his face.

He has second-degree burns over 40 percent of his body and a perforated ear drum.

Police said Jamison noticed the child has soiled his clothing. He prepared a hot bath for him, they said. According to police, when the child resisted Jamison, he slapped the boy in the face.

The victim is the son of Jamison's girlfriend.

Jamison has a preliminary hearing July 11.

[ironglow]

Think back guys....
  This disregard for and abuse of children, plus the devaluing of their lives, actually started in a big way since about 1973..when Roe v Wade said killing them is acceptable !

[beemanbeme]

IG, how many orphans have you adopted?  Any of them "special needs" children?  Or are you just another one of those zealots that talk that talk but don't walk that walk?

[ironglow]

 Beeman;
  Your statement about "special needs" children is an obtuse reference, as I see it. AlthoughI have not adopted any children, I have close friends who have adopted
   both special needs children and others who adopted bi-racial kids.
     I was very busy at that period caring for my  own natural son, who at 17 was involved in an auto accident and became a parapaligic with plenty of physical problems.
  Although his mind was super, his formerly athlete's body slowly degraded. More than 10 years were devoted to this effort.
     
   I can say however, that I never once considered the "kill option".
     
    Your statement was a nice try at "deflection" since I was basically referring to the millions of boys& girls that have been snuffed for no more than being an "inconvenience".
    I have answered your query about the "special needs" kids, and I would not begin to hassle anyone in their desperation. Now perhaps, you would like to defend the
  much more vast numbers that are liquidated for convenience...

[powderman]

Think back guys....
  This disregard for and abuse of children, plus the devaluing of their lives, actually started in a big way since about 1973..when Roe v Wade said killing them is acceptable !

In 1963 God was basically banned from America, from our schools, court rooms, etc. Thats when we began the slippery slope downward. Roe vs wade is a prime example of what happens when the door is shut on God. The immorality of today reflects all of that. Sad. POWDERMAN. 

[beemanbeme]

While the question was very blunt, it wasn't a deflection at all. It was very straightforward. And your answer was none. 
Getting an abortion as an item of convienance like picking up a loaf of bread that folks of your ilk would have people believe just isn't true. At least not to the few women that I have talked to that have had abortions. Even the couple that were IMO totally unfit to be mothers had a lot of problems in making the decision. 
I could trot out a bunch of "examples of one" that would warrent abortion but I'll leave that sort of argument to you and TM. Suffice to say, in Memphis, my wife worked for the hearing evaluation part of the Memphis School system and so had quite an interaction with the DHS. And the war stories she heard and saw there made her a firm believer in abortion.
 You readidly agreed with me the other day when I said we shouldn't be warehousing criminals for life in hopes that 1 out of 100,000 may be rehabbed.  Yet what are we doing when we collect the abandoned children --and by that I mean children actually dropped off on street corners in strange cities--, the unwanted children, the abused children, the exploited children from women that were forced to have babies they didn't want?  We put them in institutes where they are taught hatred and rage and cunning.  At an early age, they are turned onto the street where they get to express their rage and anger. Soon they are in one of the adult institutions or lying face down dead.  What have we accomplished by forcing his mother to have him? 
Without the public housing example, I have to wonder what sort of life a kid would have, how hard would it be for him to grow up normally, if his mother had been forced to have him.  I once read a report from an interview of the mother of a kid in juvvie hall.  There were 4 other sibs in the room from mid teen to 5 when the mother said, "I wisht none of these little b*****ds had of been born". Lotsa anger. Home sweet home.
Finally, IG, I think it's presumptive of me, a man, to tell a woman what to do with her body.  A woman is gonna do what she is gonna do.  They always have, they always will.  And I'm of a mind that it's better in a sterile clinic under a doctors care than with a rusty coat hanger in a back alley.  If this law that you have maintained totally corrupted America is repealed, the only thing that will change is safe abortions will become the realm of the rich and poor girls will once again bleed to death in back alleys. Will that make you happy? 

IG, fyi, you don't have to go very far in your history books to find flagrant examples of abuse and exploitation of children that belie your benchmark of Roe and Wade.

P-man, have you ever thought that morality, decency, and manners should be taught at home?  You folks that scream because your kids can't pray in school, have you thought that you could teach them how to pray at home?  Maybe lead them in prayer each morning before they left for school?   

[beemanbeme]

  sorry, I was making a snotty remark about your style of argument, not your position on abortion.

[ironglow]

  I would not presume to tell any woman or man what they can do with THEIR body...It is the bodies of innocent girls & boys I am concerned with..
   
 You seem to overlook the obvious..many choices are made before that child ends up in juvenile hall. The choice whether they are going to ..
 
   1) Make themselves vulnerable to the "inconvenience" by undertaking the breeding process.

  2) Avoid the breeding process with anyone not willing to commit to the rearing of any children

  3) If they undergo the process, and are not deirous of children they can employ birth control.

  4) If birth control methods fail..giving the child to a loving home (govt agencies can complicate this, but homes are available)

 5) There are private agencies that have a good record of placement (where "gay" groups haven't shut them down).

 6) The example you provided concerning the woman that had several children rather proves that she made some very poor choices,
     not once, but several times. Perhaps if some our tax dollars were spent teaching sensible choices, rather than "save the whales" or
    "rain forest rhythms", things just may have worked out differently for her.
 
  7) Even though the children were an inconvenience for her..even she had not chosen the "kill option".

  The "men" involved..if they are men, should care for the childs upbringing, If the woman cannot identify the culprit,
   she should be a candidate for #9..rather that to keep on destroying little lives.

 9) Last, but not at all least, there was a time when a woman that continually made bad choices, yet was living on our taxes had a choice.
  Sterilization..or no more freebies. That may have been a blessing in disguise for some....

    Personal responsibility is a great thing

  No more to say..this line is played out..

[beemanbeme]

IG, in a perfect world, all of what you say is possible. in a perfect world, little girls wouldn't get raped in Vermont.  in a perfect world, we would always make the right decision.  but then, if we always made the right decision, we would still be living in Eden.  Don'tchaknow?

[ironglow]

  I realize the world is not, and certainly I am not,  perfect..but that should not stop us from striving to make it better at all times..agreed ?

[beemanbeme]

Well, I'll let it go, but I don't see how breeding and nurturing a sub culture of criminals makes for a more perfect world?  How many bright, deserving young kids didn't get a PhD. or a college ed for that matter, because the money went to house and feed the unwanted brood of some crack 'ho? Has the cure for cancer slipped thru our fingers because the money went to build public housing so people could have a better life and not live in pig sties only to find we've built bigger sties and created a sub culture where decent people fear to tread?