Author Topic: I give up...  (Read 1142 times)

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Offline AtlLaw

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I give up...
« on: July 04, 2008, 06:45:04 AM »
In my youth it was my plan to make love to every woman in metro Atlanta.  ;) I failed... badly I'll admit.   :-[  No matter how hard I worked, new generations of sweet young things kept popping up and I'd have to start my efforts all over.   :P  I finally gave up and concentrated all my energy on one woman.

So it is with powders.  Hence the other thread on what powders you would never be without.  There are so many powders out there, and they all look so good, when you're a young stud (in reloading terms that is) you can just reach out and grab one and see what happens.  :D However, as you get older (again in reloading terms) you develop likes and dislikes and become more selective.  Then comes the dreaded "middle age crisis!"   :o  Usually about that time some flashy floozy comes along that promises to do everything the old tried and true can, but better!

This happened to me this morning.  Whilst completing my morning meditations and reading a Barsness article in the June issue of "Handloader,"  I glanced at the back cover.  There she was!   :o  I caught my breath!  I stared!  My pulse rate shot up!  My breath started coming in gasps!  my jaw dropped and a little drool dripped from the corner of my mouth!  Reloader has a new powder!  Sweet 17!  I remembered her sister "12" from long ago; quite fondly.  I thought of her sibling "15" that I've had a few flings with but have no feeling for.  And, having always found her interesting but never having dated, her older sister "19" poped into my mind.  I couldn't help but stare at her perky ballistics table.  Not completely exposed, but just a tease to give you an idea of what she promises.    All this in a split second!  17 looks, well, ...  perfect.

I'm hooked!  And just when I was starting a serious relationship with several of the Hodgdon girls.  I have GOT to have 17!  If only for one caliber!   ;D
Richard
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Offline Freezer

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2008, 07:42:57 AM »
   Take another look at your picture and you'll understand why your first enderver failed miserably,  Your lucky you found one women who would take pitty on you ;D
    As for the Hodgon girls it's a good thing, you can date all of them and they won't slap you!

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2008, 07:46:10 AM »
Take another look at your picture and you'll understand why your first enderver failed miserably,

Ouch!   :'(  Okay, I'll admit I haven't aged well.   :-[  But I tell ya,  back in the day....  8)
Richard
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Offline buffermop

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2008, 08:25:01 AM »
Atlaw....You a Vietnam vet?

Offline Old Syko

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2008, 08:46:41 AM »
Gotta tell ya!  Very well written!  I can appreciate the compairasons.   :D :D :D

Personally, I was always told to be careful what kind of girl you chased because you stood the chance of getting stuck with something that wouldn't pan out over time.  Got married at 18 and have stuck it out for 36 years now.  Started loading at about 14 with milsurp powders and just placed another order yesterday.  Always figured if I had what I needed there was no reason to keep lookin.  ;)

 

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2008, 09:10:03 AM »
Atlaw....You a Vietnam vet?

Yes, and thank you, most people say WWII!   :'(
Richard
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Offline dw06

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2008, 10:57:53 AM »
Thanks for your service sir!
As for the Reloader 17, been looking at it and waiting for it to hit the shelfs to try.Not seen any yet, any one else get hold of any yet?
If you find yourself in a hole,the first thing to do is stop digging-Will Rogers

Offline buffermop

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2008, 11:40:59 AM »
i thank you  for your time . The war made no sense to me . but what war does.

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2008, 12:33:08 PM »
It's quite easy to say "no war makes sense" with gravy dripping off your chin.  Or this is Mr Bush's war, etc, etc.  Maybe we'll fight the next one on Pennsylvania Avenue and let the media and talking heads and other sophist handle it.    :(

I know your pain, AL.  Just about the time you have the perfect load, someone will say "that's really great! Have you tried any xxx, it'll really tighten things up."  So off you go. 

Offline FW Conch

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2008, 01:48:44 PM »
   AtlLaw, does this mean you "didn't" get a "puffy" over IMR 4007 SSC or Hodgedon Hybrid 100 ?  ???
Jim

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2008, 03:29:16 PM »
AtlLaw

What are your plans for R-17. I have used most of the Allient powders and am a big fan.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2008, 05:54:36 PM »
AtlLaw

The two things that I have learned in the past 25 years of loading are , 1 - some guns will never shoot well no mater what you do and 2 - you CAN have too many powders .

The reason for number 2 is that if you have too many powders you will endever to find the perfect load which brings us to number 1 .  ;)

stimpy

PS - don't look in my powder locker .
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline Freezer

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2008, 06:20:16 PM »
    Atlaw, I'm a Navy Corpsman of 12 years, the wife of 15.  Thank you! 
    I'm sure glad you have a sense of humor and don't know where I live! :-[
    We've been married 28 years now and I haven't found any reason to experiment when it comes to her :) 
    As for powder I like (as in my younger days being a Sailor and all) to play around  a bit.  My latest love has been Varget :-*

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2008, 06:25:43 PM »
you "didn't" get a "puffy" over IMR 4007 SSC or Hodgedon Hybrid 100 ?  ???

Naw, they left me cold.  Kinda like 2 sisters I knew once... Ug & Lee. 
Richard
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2008, 06:33:39 PM »
What are your plans for R-17.

When I looked at the table the first thing I looked for was the .308.  Nothing there.  They said it's burning rate was about the same as 4350 which is pretty slow for the 308, but if I go down from there...  Oops!   :o  let me rephrase that, if I try lesser caliber's with the same case capacity, or the same caliber with larger case capacity it could be interesting...
Richard
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Offline Cheesehead

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2008, 06:36:28 PM »
AtlLaw,

Could you be more specific.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2008, 06:50:41 PM »
if you have too many powders you will endever to find the perfect load

But Stimp ol' pal, isn't that why we have so much "trigger" time?  Looking for the perfect load (woman)?  If one doesn't measure up, ditch it (her) and try another for a while?  Now I'll tell you what you already know, there are a lot more loads (wimmins) out there that just don't make it, but you keep on looking until you find the one you settle on.  I could ah told you 57 gr. of IMR 4350 behind a 165 gr. bullet was a winner in the 30/06, but would you have listened?  Heck no!  And besides, she might not have been right for you.  So you got to keep looking.  End result, you can't have to many powders (or wimmins!   ;D)
Richard
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2008, 06:54:06 PM »
Could you be more specific.

Geeze Cheese!  You been sitting on that Milwalkee vibrator to much!   :D  Specific about what!?   ???
Richard
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Offline torpedoman

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2008, 07:06:24 PM »
my goal was'nt that ambisious i just wanted to make love to one for every letter in the alpahbet alas that too was a failure do you know how hard it is to find a girl whose first name startd with  X Z or Q    :o :'(
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Offline Cheesehead

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2008, 07:29:48 PM »
AtlLaw

What cartridges were likely candidates for R-17. ???

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline FW Conch

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2008, 12:09:52 AM »
   Thanks for the feedback on the new powders "LAW'. As an old Submarine Sailor (Torpedoman) I know what you mean about the "Lee" sisters. But heck, I couda been happy with one good "Red Head" !  ::) As it is, my Brunette of 28 years is more than I deserve so I will consider myself very fortunate. Answer "Cheese's question, he's trying to broaden all our horizons in a "positive" way!  ;D
Jim

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2008, 06:39:19 AM »
Geez T-man, you hung around with 'em long enough to exchange names?  Next thing you'll be telling us you bought 'em a drink and a burger.  Mr. Big Bucks.  ::)

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2008, 09:11:41 AM »
What cartridges were likely candidates for R-17. ???
Cheese

Hey Cheese, sorry it took me so long.  Internet connection problems at home.
In that I haven't seen a review of this powder from a respected individual, I can only make my decision on what to try it in based on the advertising hype I read.  It listed three advantages of this powder:

1.  Burning rate similar to 4350:  Of course burning rate relationships on a chart don't mean much, but I'm looking at one that lists three hundred and eight powders.  IMR and H 4350 are numbers 253 & 254.  The next lowest Alliant is Rel15 @ 234, and the next highest is Rel19 @ 261.  So, assuming it was named following the existing numerical order, we have some idea where it lays.  And, if it's right there with the other 4350's, like Accurate 4350 is being at #252, I can come up with a lot of choices pretty quick!   ;D  For example:  my favorite 165 gr 30/06 load is 57.0 gr of IMR 4350 and my favorite 150 gr. load is a couple grains more.  I've already loaded up some 150's with H4350 to compare with the IMR powder.  Now I've got another one to try!  And, the ballistics table the included in the add showed a distinct light for caliber, to my way of thinking anyway, bent to the information contained.  But, they do show a 150 gr at over 3K fps from the '06.   :-\  And, even though I'm more of a heavy and slow kinda guy, I'd like to see if it will do that in MY M700.  So, if it has a burning rate the in the same group as the other 4350's, there ain't nuthin wrong with that!  Might be just right for other calibers I'll note hereinafter.

2.  Powder density developed for short magnums:   ???  Unfortunately I don't have a density chart, or an energy chart, sitting right here in front of me, so this boast doesn't mean a lot.  At first I thought the density would be higher so you could get more in a case.  But that can't be it.  Now I may be wrong but I think most SM's have just about the same capacity as the "other" case anyway.  So, the only thing I can think of is this:  It's been my experience that IMR 4350 likes a little bit of compression to perform at it's best.  It gets that in most calibers I use it in.  Therefore, it seems to utilise most of the case capacity of a given cartridge without creating an overpressure condition.  If Rel17 is more dense, mayhaps more powder by weight and volume, can be put in a case and the pressure curve adjusted (by burn rate maybe?) so pressures don't exceed Saami limits.  Either that or Alliant has discovered that powder burning characteristics and velocities achievable from SM's can be significantly altered by tailoring a powder's density to a cartridge's shape!

3.  More temperature insensitive:  Now I don't think temperature sensitivity has been a real issue since cordite in DG stoppers went out of style.  However, I am nothing if not a mass of contradictions.  Guess that comes from having to argue either side of an issue depending on who was paying me.   ;)  Now, I'm all hot to try Rel 17 in a bunch of calibers; Rel17's big selling point was more velocity then existing powders; I've often said I don't worry much about velocity as long as it is "acceptable" in my viewpoint, accuracy is the "Holy Grail."  Now I've just said I don't think temperature sensitivity is much of an issue, but the reason I'm trying more of the Hodgdon powders is the temp. insensitivity of their Extream line!   ::)  Of course Alliant may have a reason for adding this as a little perk of this powder, however ambiguously it was worded, because as I remember some time ago they got a bad rap about this very thing with their other powders.

So I came to the conclusion that, their advertisement notwithstanding, the information we have so far on this powder is pretty thin.  Basically a burn rate somewhere around that of the 4350's.  Okay, I'll go with that!  So on to your question of me Cheese!   ;D

I can see me trying this powder in the following cartridges:
.243 Win:  I swore I'd never use it on deer again after killing 2 8 pointers a couple years ago with standing broadside shots behind the shoulder and not getting exit wounds using 100 gr. Sierra BTSP's @ 2950 +/_; Rel22 BTW.  But my .243 is a Browning Low Wall that is just such a joy, and I've got a box each of Nosler partitions and Spear Grand Slams plus a bunch of 55 gr. bullets I need to shoot up...
257 Roberts:  Never could get this one to shoot better then 1.5 in. but I never did my normal "must do's" that I do to my bolt guns to this Ruger.  So I'm gonna start over with it and since 4350 is supposedly "the" powder for the Bob...
260 Rem:  If 4350 is good enough for the .243 & the .257, well...
6.5x55 Swede:  Swede's generally like slower powders, but with the lighter bullets and Alliant's add showing mostly light bullets,...
7x57 Mauser:see 6.5x55.  Enough IMR 4350 to get me just under 2800 fps is my load of choice right now.  I've also got a bunch loaded up with H-4350 to compare!
7/08 Rem:  If it's good enough for the 6.5 and 7mm! ...
.308 Win:  They didn't list this in their chart.  Maybe the point of diminishing returns is down around 7mm for this case size.
30/06:  Done talked about her!
.300 WinMag:  Do they make cheese in Wisconsin!?   ;)

What you think bro?
Richard
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2008, 11:36:21 AM »
Quote
What you think bro?

What I think is that if you think:
Quote
Now I don't think temperature sensitivity has been a real issue since cordite in DG stoppers went out of style.


Then you should work up a good load (max or near max) in cool to cold weather with W760 and then try it in July here in the south. That will open your eyes in regard to temperature sensitivity iffen it doesn't put your eyes out with pieces of your rifle flying off in all directions.


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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2008, 02:15:47 PM »
work up a good load (max or near max) in cool to cold weather with W760 and then try it in July here in the south.

No thank you... I just look stupid!   ;D

Probably poor phraseology.  :-[  I’ll admit temperature is one of those things that should be in your mind when working up a load.  I know all powders are temperature sensitive to one degree or another which is why I'm experimenting with H's extremes.  And why one of the things I have a space for on my log sheet for each load I shoot is the OAT.  Plus I usually develop my loads in the summer and hunt when it's cooler; even though September in South JawJa be mighty warmish!  So, of course, I know you're right.  I've even heard that one particular WW powder is REAL sensitive.  Guess that's the 760 huh?  Anyway, if I can get the H Ext. powders to shoot as well as the IMR, Rel and other more "temperature sensitive" powders I use, they’ll be no sacrifice made by switching to them and I’ll gain peace of mind!   ;)

I did read one test some time ago that measured pressure over temperature changes.  I don't remember the particulars so I won't try to quote it, but the one impression I have remaining from it is that it verified that pressures do increase with temperature.  And in some cases the increase can be a goodly amount if you measure from one extreme to the other.  But not many people develop a load at 0 degrees and shoot it at 100.  So in usual practice, the pressure variations have about as much effect on velocity/trajectory as the air density.  But then, most external ballistic programs I have used do request the number of feet above sea level for their calculations! ;D
Richard
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Offline Cheesehead

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2008, 03:37:04 PM »
I have used lots of R15 and R19 for 308 and 6.5x55. I personally can't find a use for this powder since it seems to be designed for short mags.

Cheese
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: I give up...
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2008, 04:22:18 PM »
it seems to be designed for short mags.
Cheese

I didn't have the ad in front of me when I wrote my response, but it says (paraphrased) new technology - to increase velocity - in most standard calibers - and new SM's.  Sounds like the be all, end all to me!   ::)

The three claims I referred to are even more ambiguous.
"Density designed for short magnum case capacity"
"burn speed similar to IMR 4350"
"excellent performance across temperature ranges"

I have GOT to try it out and the 30/06 seems like a good vehicle!  159 fps gain (3006 fps) over it's "nearest competitor."   :o  Be still my heart!   ;)
Richard
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