Naval Cannon Carriage

[Backswampcub]

    I have been lurking here for awhile. Trying to figure out a decent cannon choice for my first piece of artillery. Well I have sent my money order to Dominick Carpenter for one of his GB bore Naval Barrels. I am in need of help I will be building the carriage myself. I found the set of plans that Double D put in a previous post. I am just not good at scaling things up. The Barrel is 24" long I figured on making the carriage 18" long 6.5" wide at the rear and 5" wide at the front. Does this seem to scale for this barrel. Maybe someone out there has a 24" barrel on a naval carriage and can take a look for me. I would appreciate any help

Adam Betsacon

[dominick]

Adam,  I can send a naval carriage template along with the barrel if you want.  I shortened the carriage a bit from the website photos.  You could also scale a carriage from a side view photo.  Example:  Your barrel length, 24" ; Barrel length in photo 3.5"  24" divided by 3.5" equals 6.85. This number is the factor.  Any other measurement in the photo multiply it by 6.85.  If the wheels in the photo are a 1/2" diameter, multiply 1/2" and 6.85 to equal 3.42" actual size. You can also do the same with top front and rear view photos.   Hope this helps.  Dom

[dominick]

Photo of my side plate design.

[Double D]

If you are doing the SAMCC Gun to scale to your 24 inch barrel divide 24 by 10.89 the length of the SAMCC barrel.

This gives you 2.181.  Multiply any measurement on the SAMMC gun and gun carrriage  by 2.181 to scale up to your gun.  

The cheek on the SAMMC carrige  is 6.5 inches long.  8.5 x 2.181 = 14.1765. Your cheek should be 14.1765 long

One change you may have to  make is in the spacing of the cheeks and axle length.  For this measurement You will need to measure the width of the barrel at the trunnion bosses.  Divide this measurement by width between the cheeks at the trunnions on the SAMMC carriage. Use this number to multiply the over all length of the axles, length of the transoms, and inside location of the axle notches.

[Backswampcub]

     Thank you Dom, It is hard in this day and age to find people that are so dedicated to their customers. You have gone above and beyond to make sure that everything was the way I want it to be and have even taken the step to show me the dimensions of your carriage. Even though you sell that carriage. You understand that I want to build it myself and are willing to help. My fiance wants a Handgonne and I am wanting a swivel gun your help in this process has sealed the deal for me as to who I will be contacting on those purchases.

[Cat Whisperer]

Adam -

WELCOME to the board!

We'd love to see pix as you build!

[Backswampcub]

    Double D

           I am basing my carriage off of the Uss Cairo plans that were posted on the forum, I believe by you. I have made some changes to size to suit my wants and needs. What gun are you referring to when you say the sammc gun. The sizes I have come up with for the cheeks are 16" long 7" tall at front 3" tall at rear. This seemed close to what I was looking for. But if anyone has any feedback I would appreciate it .

[GGaskill]

The South Africa Model Cannon Club gun is described in this thread which is quite long but includes several sets of drawings for both barrel and carriage.

[Double D]

    Double D

           I am basing my carriage off of the Uss Cairo plans that were posted on the forum, I believe by you. I have made some changes to size to suit my wants and needs. What gun are you referring to when you say the sammc gun. The sizes I have come up with for the cheeks are 16" long 7" tall at front 3" tall at rear. This seemed close to what I was looking for. But if anyone has any feedback I would appreciate it .

I had a nagging feeling in the back of my mind.."I wonder if he is referring to the Cairo gun?".  Same principal.

Barrel in the Cairo Plans is 10.73 inches.  24/10.73=2.237. The cheek in the drawing is  6 1/32 x 2.237 = 13.492 the length of the cheek.





To adjust for axle length and cheek spacing follow the procedure in my previous post.  Also cheek thickness shuld be equal to the length of the trunnion to the boss.

Good choice by the way.

[dan610324]

here is also an nice design

[Backswampcub]

     First let me thank everyone for their help. I see that I have some adjustments to make to my cheek template. I have made it a wee too long. I am not going for an exact scale version of the cairo. I am trying to combine everything. But I did notice something on the Cairo plans, it shows a elevation screw but when you look as some of the Cairo cannon pics they show a wedge used for adjustment of height. Were there two types of carriages on the ship or is it a oversight somewhere.

[JeffG]

It is hard in this day and age to find people that are so dedicated to their customers.

That's no kidding!  +1 for Dom.

[Rickk]

Here is a link to a thread I did about building two naval style guns.

They are  of course exact reproductions of two guns that were on a small pirate ship owned by a little known pirate that disappeared without a trace during a "3 hour tour" of some islands somewhere in the pacific, so there is no way to disprove their authentic historical accuracy 

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,115820.0.html

Note the concept of a floating rear axle. If you don't need to make a perfect replica of anything, but are picking out the best of everything you see, consider adding that feature (unless your world is perfectly flat of course).

[EL Caz 66]

Yep yep!! Dom always takes the time to do right thing for his customer, no matter how big or small the job is.. Never tells you he can't... Great workmanship at a great price... His Cannons & Mortars will survive  numerous generations, a true artisan. No true cannon & mortar hobbyist should go with one of his works of art.

Ed

[Backswampcub]

    Like I said Dom has been of the greatest service. I can't wait to see that box/crate show up at my door step. I have been working on the cheeks for the carriage. I unfotunately had an incident with my lumber. I am using Red Oak from the Home Depot because of availability. Well they do not have 2x stock in Oak so I had to buy two pieces of 1x12-36 and laminate them together using urethane glue. Well I put the boards together and laid them on the sidewalk outside and started stacking heavy crap on them to sandwich them nice and tight. Well I used two anvils a Vise and a Antique milk can. So I get on the tractor to go do some cutting. When my neighbor stops me to see if I want to go catfishing. So off I went well while I was gone it rained. The Vise and Anvils made these deep ugly black stains in the wood. So now I either scrap the wood or go with a painted carriage instead of Stained. Opinions and Carriage color ideas.

[Rickk]

maybe put the stained parts on the inside? They won't really show if they are on only one side. They also will add "character", as original carriages tend to have lots of black stains on them from rust and powder.

At the very least, if you build it and it looks terrible, you will have worked out all the constrution details on wood that you were thinking about scrapping anyway. Take my word for it, things can go wrong. Sometimes it is minor, sometimes it is major. If the stains are an issue when you are done you can use them as patterns on new wood.

Nice clamps to have for glueing or whatever are the ones that you buy just the ends and then use 3/4 inch iron pipe to connect the ends together. They are infinitely adjustable in length. When I built my mortar I recall having about a dozen of those types of clamps on the base when laminating it together.

One thing I disconvered the hard way about urethane glue is that prior to setting up is is very slippery. I used weghts once and when I came back in a couple of hours the boards had slid about an inch out of alignment. Of course the glue had set up solid by then. Clamps work alot better. A number of wooden dowels hidden inside help keep the wood aligned when gluing and make for a stronger joint as well.

Rick

[Backswampcub]

     Good news I was able to sand the stains out of the wood. Now I can stain it if I choose. But I still may go with paint. I have figured my wheels out. I had wanted a steel wrapped with oak inside. I found a threaded coupler for two inch conduit that will work perfectly. Now I just have to cut out rounds of oak sand to fit and glue up.  Thanks for the advice Rikk. I have clamps but alot of my stuff is in storage.

[lendi]

Here is a picture of a naval cannon and carriage that I have built several of.  It is a muller style carriage.  Paul Barnett has a set of plans and all you need to do is scale them to the size of your barrel.  Carriage length is 2/3 the length of your barrel.  Hope that this helps you out.
Len
DICW

[kappullen]

Blackswamp,

While red oak is readily avalible, it is in my experience, prone to splitting.

One of my first field guns the cheeks split on the first or second shot.

I used those bolts with a wood screw on one end and machine screw on the other.

Those are hanger bolts for plants or something. Bad way to go.

If you run your bolts clean through, that will help.

I guess I did everything wrong at least once!

White oak may be avalible at a saw mill, or speciltilty lumber place.

That's a bit pricy, but a better material.

Of course drilling a straight (angular) hole without a drill press is problematic  too.

I center drill where the hole is supposed to start, and end. Then I set a center under the spindle

with the far side of the hole located on it. Drill from both ends to meet in the middle.

You'll need an angle plate, and a couple of clamps to hold the cheek in place while drilling.

Works for me.



Good luck with your project.

Kap