Author Topic: H&R MAY NO LONGER BE #1 IN MISSISSIPPI PRIMITIVE WEAPON (Read 9461 times)

yooper77 · « **Reply #30 on:** July 15, 2008, 05:07:09 AM »

I have always wondered why a shotgun action with a rifled barrel installed is still called a shotgun.

Define rifle:
A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder, with a barrel that has a helical groove or pattern of grooves ("rifling") cut into the barrel walls.

I would rather use a pistol cartridge out of a carbine then a shotgun sabot slug out of a rifled shotgun barrel? Dang, that sounds funny (rifled shotgun barrel)!

yooper77

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #31 on:** July 15, 2008, 05:32:23 AM »

Gonna have to agree with HOTH on the bickering. I hunt with tradtional sidelock muzzleloaders as well as modern cartridge rifles. All depends on where I'm going and how I feel about the hunt. Cutting down one way over another is counter productive when it comes to hunting and the preservation of the 2nd amendment. I don't bow hunt as I'm unable to draw and hold, but if they ever make crossbows legal here I may try that. It's the hunt that counts with me, not how many I get. That said, I do hunt for food as well as the enjoyment of being out. Remember, this is America, we can be different. DP.

petemi · « **Reply #32 on:** July 15, 2008, 06:25:50 AM »

I hunt, for the most part, for the table and to control pests. I hunt with everything....long bow, compound, crossbow, side hammer flint and caplocks, modern in-lines, center fire and rim fire, shotguns and rocks if I need them. The point I'm trying to make is if they just want to control the deer herd, just extend the season, issue more tags, whatever. It is easy to kill more deer. Just don't ruin someones primitive season that he's been looking forward to so he or she can trek and stalk deer with a flintlock or caplock. I'm sorry, I'll be damned, but my wonderful Handi .45-70 is not now and never will be primitive. Did they have plastic trigger guards and fore end spacers in 1899?? How about the alloys?? Scopes?? Bullets?? Primers?? 'nuf said, shut up, Pete

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #33 on:** July 15, 2008, 07:22:47 AM »

Don't get me wrong guys , we do need hunting laws to ensure that our kids and their kids have something to hunt , there just needs to be some consistency to how these laws are written .

Do I think there needs to be limits , YES , other wise some moron will be out shooting at deer with a 25 Auto from 100 yards leaving wounded animals to suffer .

Do I think that you need a 300 Win Mag to take a 150# deer , I doubt it but who knows for sure till that shot comes .

stimpy

jsoukup · « **Reply #34 on:** July 15, 2008, 08:02:56 AM »

I don't think bickering divides us. I just think it shows our concern for doing it right and acting responsibly, something the left side of this nation could learn from.

Tunaman · « **Reply #35 on:** July 15, 2008, 08:44:48 AM »

I too live in LA. and hunt primarily in Miss. Just because it is leagal to shoot these firearms does not mean that you have to. I prefer to hunt with my muzzel loader most of the time but under the right circumstances, I hunt with one of my 45/70s. In the county and Parish's that I hunt, we need to kill a lot of deer, so these primitive weapons are meerly a tool to allow us to kill more deer. Up north, you guys grow some big deer but the numbers down here are staggering. You should see just how many accidents down here involve just one truck or car and a deer.

petemi · « **Reply #36 on:** July 15, 2008, 11:08:09 AM »

It's like I said, lengthen the seasons, issue more tags to control the herd. Don't change the seasons' requirements. Next thing we'll be bow hunting with AR-15s. We have the same vehicle vs deer problem here in Michigan.....only ours are bigger when they come through the windshield.
Stimpy, I don't care if someone wants to use a howitzer to hunt during the "Primitive Season", but it damned well needs to be a front stuffer. I would and did take exception to Michigan's old .44 cal. or larger regulation. That made my 1860 Army revolver a "deer gun". NO WAY...it won't even shoot through both sides of a 55 gallon drum with the most powder you can stuff in it. Inadequate, but legal. By the same token, my .32 Cherokee with a 103 gr. maxi chronoed at 2200+ fps with 75 gr. FFFG, and blew that 55 gal drum away and was illegal. God bless our ignorant legislators!

torpedoman · « **Reply #37 on:** July 15, 2008, 01:45:23 PM »

if you want stupid come to wash state. here you can't use a 223 for deer but you can use a 25 auto pistol if the barrel is longer than 4 in. and if you jump thru enough hoops you can own a silencer or suppressor but you can't fire a weapon with it attached.

turkeyeye · « **Reply #38 on:** July 15, 2008, 02:05:31 PM »

A dead deer is a dead deer.

It doesn't matter what it was shot with.

JDMANN · « **Reply #39 on:** July 15, 2008, 04:51:35 PM »

As I stated earlier. I don't care what you hunt with during the season. If it is legal and kills quickly and humanely, hunt with it. That some feel they need a "special" season for their particular weapon is not a valid reason for me. If you want to hunt with a flintlock, bow, etc., then by all means do so. Do you feel it is right to deny others their choice of weapon so you can get your way? Remember, we are trying to encourage more people to hunt, not divide ourselves and eventually lose our privilege to hunt. What good is it if we win one battle or another, only to lose the war?

chip-don · « **Reply #40 on:** July 16, 2008, 06:08:49 AM »

hunt with whatever the rules say you can.. but do not call my handy a primitive anything

petemi · « **Reply #41 on:** July 16, 2008, 07:39:16 AM »

Quote from: JDMANN on July 15, 2008, 04:51:35 PM

As I stated earlier. I don't care what you hunt with during the season. If it is legal and kills quickly and humanely, hunt with it. That some feel they need a "special" season for their particular weapon is not a valid reason for me. If you want to hunt with a flintlock, bow, etc., then by all means do so. Do you feel it is right to deny others their choice of weapon so you can get your way? Remember, we are trying to encourage more people to hunt, not divide ourselves and eventually lose our privilege to hunt. What good is it if we win one battle or another, only to lose the war?

You miss the point. Primitive means Primitive. Hunt with whatever you like during the regular rifle season. You can use "anything that kills deer quickly and humanely." Do it., but don't lengthen your rifle season by invading the Primitive season. If you had your way there wouldn't be a bow season either, just one long "Pick Your Weapon Season".

JDMANN · « **Reply #42 on:** July 16, 2008, 09:38:40 AM »

Pretty much how I feel. Does each group need "their" own season? Why do you feel the need for special treatment. It's deer hunting. I don't feel strongly about this, I just want to understand why certain groups want special seasons. I sometimes hunt deer using deer dogs. If you want to talk about a group losing days of hunting to others... Well, explain the special season logic to me, and how would others using different weapons ruin your hunt? (Let's not even discuss deer dogs...PLEASE!)

petemi · « **Reply #43 on:** July 16, 2008, 10:26:54 AM »

I wouldn't have a problem with one "deer season" from October first to January first with any thing that will kill them. Just don't set aside a special season and corrupt it. It really irks me that bow hunters here hunt from Oct. 1 to Jan 1, have a month and a half at the prime deer before Nov. 15 rifle season. And in this neighborhood many of them wound more than they kill. I heard one guy a while back saying that he "shot at 6 deer but hadn't gotten any". One of my buddies shot a deer in December with a muzzle loader and cut his hand on a broadhead inside the deer field dresssing it. Nuf said...Amen

Swampman · « **Reply #44 on:** July 17, 2008, 04:41:36 PM »

I don't think any of the other calibers mentioned, would be better than the .45-70.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #45 on:** July 17, 2008, 05:49:40 PM »

To expand a bit, the bullet is more subject to fragmentation than a shotgun slug as well. This subject was in an issue of Deer & Deer Hunting last year I believe. I wish I knew how to link things for more credibility here.

lostarrow · « **Reply #46 on:** July 29, 2008, 10:59:12 AM »

Our moderator is correct. Our deer population is increasing, the number of hunters is decreasing and the dept of wildlife is trying to increase the harvest.We already have liberal limits. 3bucks & 5 does, a long season from oct 1 until jan 31st some areas till feb 15. We may be heading toward any weapon from Oct to feb

RaySendero · « **Reply #47 on:** July 29, 2008, 01:19:26 PM »

So here is the 2007-8 Mississippi hunting regs regarding primitive wepons:

PRIMITIVE WEAPONS
"Primitive firearms" for the purpose of hunting deer, are defined as single or double barreled muzzle-loading rifles of at least .38 caliber; single shot, breech loading, cartridge rifles (.38 caliber or larger) of a kind and type manufactured prior to 1900, and replicas, reproductions or reintroductions of those type rifles; and single or double-barreled muzzle-loading shotguns with single ball or slug. All muzzle-loading Primitive Firearms must use black powder or a black powder substitute with either percussion caps or #209 shotgun primers or flintlock ignition. Breech loading single shot rifles must have exposed hammers and use metallic cartridges. Cartridges may be loaded either with black powder or modern smokeless powder. Scopes of any magnification are allowed on primitive weapons. Sidearms are not allowed during primitive weapon season.

So what about the above has changed from the last 2 years?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #48 on:** July 29, 2008, 01:59:57 PM »

That's the old "new" law, the current version that recently passed is in the link STUMPJMPR posted on the 14th, basically they changed the min cal to .35 and allow other single shot rifles like the TC Encore.

Tim

http://www.mdwfp.com/Level2/Wildlife/pdf/final/2008/LE5-2280.pdf

Swampman · « **Reply #49 on:** July 29, 2008, 03:38:55 PM »

Funny they won't allow smokeless powder in muzzleloaders, but they allow smokeless powder cartridge guns.

RaySendero · « **Reply #50 on:** July 29, 2008, 04:28:43 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on July 29, 2008, 01:59:57 PM

That's the old "new" law, the current version that recently passed is in the link STUMPJMPR posted on the 14th, basically they changed the min cal to .35 and allow other single shot rifles like the TC Encore.

Tim

http://www.mdwfp.com/Level2/Wildlife/pdf/final/2008/LE5-2280.pdf

OK, Now I get it - Thanks

RaySendero · « **Reply #51 on:** July 29, 2008, 04:33:51 PM »

Hey I just got an idea!

Why don't they change the name from Primitive Weapon season to;

"New Rifle Season"
Rules would be - Any 2008 rifle 223 and larger for 2008. next year 2009 and so on.

That way all the manufacturing lobbist would be real happy!

PanaDP · « **Reply #52 on:** July 29, 2008, 05:41:26 PM »

Their definition of a primitive firearm should include that the cartridge it is chambered for predate 1900 as well as the firearm type itself. That seems like it would fulfill the intent of the regulation.

RT8 · « **Reply #53 on:** July 30, 2008, 03:08:12 AM »

Quote from: RaySendero on July 29, 2008, 01:19:26 PM

So here is the 2008-9 Mississippi hunting regs regarding primitive wepons:

PRIMITIVE WEAPONS
"Primitive firearms" for the purpose of hunting deer, are defined as single or double barreled muzzle-loading rifles of at least .38 caliber; single shot, breech loading, cartridge rifles (.38 35 caliber or larger) ~~of a kind and type manufactured prior to 1900, and replicas, reproductions or reintroductions of those type rifles~~; and single or double-barreled muzzle-loading shotguns with single ball or slug. All muzzle-loading Primitive Firearms must use black powder or a black powder substitute with either percussion caps or #209 shotgun primers or flintlock ignition. Breech loading single shot rifles must have exposed hammers and use metallic cartridges. Cartridges may be loaded either with black powder or modern smokeless powder. Scopes of any magnification are allowed on primitive weapons. Sidearms are not allowed during primitive weapon season.

So what about the above has changed from the last 2 years?

THIS year's version looks something like that.

DirtyDan · « **Reply #54 on:** August 01, 2008, 10:50:56 AM »

Quote

Well, explain the special season logic to me, and how would others using different weapons ruin your hunt?

Exactly- how does what I use to hunt, effect your enjoyment? Some states have a handgun season. Is a T/C Contender with a 16" barrel chambered in 308 really a handgun? Use what you prefer, what is legal and let the other guy do the same. Why get hung up on labels at a certain time of year. Talk about "ate up with it".

45north · « **Reply #55 on:** August 01, 2008, 07:35:11 PM »

No one will use a 375 H&H for deer. Well I do, when you hunt Kodiak Is. and you kill a deer there can be problems. If you do not get to your deer fast enough after the kill,another animal will lay claim to it and they do not like to share.
Moose also qualify as deer don't they... 10 times the size of most whitetail, 375 works fine.

45north

Sixpack · « **Reply #56 on:** August 02, 2008, 06:14:24 AM »

Quote from: petemi on July 15, 2008, 11:08:09 AM

It's like I said, lengthen the seasons, issue more tags to control the herd. Don't change the seasons' requirements. Next thing we'll be bow hunting with AR-15s. We have the same vehicle vs deer problem here in Michigan.....only ours are bigger when they come through the windshield.
Stimpy, I don't care if someone wants to use a howitzer to hunt during the "Primitive Season", but it damned well needs to be a front stuffer. I would and did take exception to Michigan's old .44 cal. or larger regulation. That made my 1860 Army revolver a "deer gun". NO WAY...it won't even shoot through both sides of a 55 gallon drum with the most powder you can stuff in it. Inadequate, but legal. By the same token, my .32 Cherokee with a 103 gr. maxi chronoed at 2200+ fps with 75 gr. FFFG, and blew that 55 gal drum away and was illegal. God bless our ignorant legislators!

First, I don't necessarily agree that a Handi is a primitive weapon and certainly not a Handi in 500 S&W, but it is legal and I happily use my Handi in 45-70 because it is legal. Basically, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that we (modern primitive weapon hunters ie inlines and Handis in MS) shouldn't intrude on your flintlock hunting. Well I'm just wondering what gives you the right to intrude on my Handi hunting when the Law says it is legal? If it is legal I don't have a problem with it. And yes before the change in the law I occasionally use an inline with irons to hunt primitive season but I guess you have a problem with that too. FYI, we don't in MS have tags but bag limits which are more or less left up to the individual to be honest about. We can harvest 3 bucks and 3 does along with an additional 2 does with archery equipment.

I do take offense to people who think there view is the only way. As was previously stated, we need to stand together as one and not argue over what is really a primitive weapon. How do we expect to win the war if we cant keep from fighting among ourselves? And BTW Mississippi might not be perfect, but we seem to like it just like it is. Personally, I don't like muzzleloaders at all. But that is me and lots of people enjoy them. You don't hear me putting down your choice of firearm. I say as long as it is legal and keeps people in the sport, what is the problem??

gaileyr · « **Reply #57 on:** August 07, 2008, 04:44:32 AM »

It's not a matter of what's considered a "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" here in Mississippi. Rather, it's a matter of controlling our huge deer population. In some parts of the state it's just plain dangerous to drive down a two lane blacktop after dark. Instead of complaining about what laws we see fit to pass. Why don't you guys buy an out of state license and come on down and give us a hand. We could use the help, and it'll only cost you $300-$400. Heck, we'll even let you hunt with a flint-lock if that's want you prefer.

Any takers

??.... I thought not.

Tencubed · « **Reply #58 on:** August 07, 2008, 11:49:10 AM »

gaileyr:

The licenses and tags may not be that expensive but the drive down from Washington, the State, not that other place, at todays gas prices would bust the bank. Would love to have the venison and have a trailer with a freezer on it that a little Honda Genset keeps cold just for jobs like that. Just to dang far to drive.

Now if you could bunch them up and herd them out this way - - - -

Mike

nomosendero · « **Reply #59 on:** August 08, 2008, 03:24:14 PM »

Quote from: gaileyr on August 07, 2008, 04:44:32 AM

It's not a matter of what's considered a "PRIMITIVE WEAPON" here in Mississippi. Rather, it's a matter of controlling our huge deer population. In some parts of the state it's just plain dangerous to drive down a two lane blacktop after dark. Instead of complaining about what laws we see fit to pass. Why don't you guys buy an out of state license and come on down and give us a hand. We could use the help, and it'll only cost you $300-$400. Heck, we'll even let you hunt with a flint-lock if that's want you prefer.

Any takers ??.... I thought not.

I might, I am just one state over.

And I agree with your post. Opinions abound & I agree that just making the seasons longer could help & if the herd keeps growing they may have to go to an all winter season & use any weapon, if that many need to be killed , what diff. does it make in that case?

I am a state's rights guy on these things & the people of MS. need to make those decisions, not out-of-staters.