Author Topic: Ethics (Read 1681 times)

GRIMJIM · « **on:** July 14, 2008, 04:52:43 PM »

I was discussing hunting ethics with a friend and I wanted to hear other opinions on this.

I was in northern Quebec on a caribou hunt. One of the guides had a tag to fill. Two of them went out in a boat and coralled an animal in the water towards shore and shot it while it was still in the water.

This guy was not up there to hunt, he lived there and needed the meat to feed his family.

My dad was appalled (this from a guy that used to shine deer).

I didn't have a problem with it at all.

I'm just curious to hear others' reactions.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #1 on:** July 14, 2008, 04:56:07 PM »

Is it legal? I don't really have an opinion on it either way as it's none of my business, but it's not something I'd personally do. I imagine if I had hungry young'ins to feed my opinion might be a bit different.

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2008, 01:55:01 AM »

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Is it legal?

This is a number one priority.

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This guy was not up there to hunt, he lived there and needed the meat to feed his family.

This is more than a number one priority if the guy would be disabled from work and State resorces had expired and local food banks were light to non-existant.
I think that the Caribou numbers can afford the harvest and that particular animal was approved to be taken through the guides permit.

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I didn't have a problem with it at all.

I guess that I am with you here when it comes down to family and the immediate needs. My Mother was born in 1921 and can remember times where they had Opossum for dinner. She said it was greasy but they were glad
To have it at that time. My dad had spoke of having mustard spread on a single slice of bread for lunch during that time period and being glad to get it. They also had supplements such as dandilion greens and garden produce that
was stored in a root cellar. They were not exactly destitude but the 30's were a rough time and they needed a little something extra to get through till the crops could be brought in and the so called Slaughter day for the live stock would come around in the fall.

oldyardog · « **Reply #3 on:** July 15, 2008, 03:17:27 AM »

I will tell you from experience that if you have hungry kids and no other way to feed them hunting is no longer a sport. Getting food becomes a job and the easiest, surest way is the best way. When you have to feed your family there are no hunting regulations.
Don't ask.

Oldyardog

beemanbeme · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2008, 07:45:03 AM »

I agree with everything that has been posted. However, around here you get the out and out poachers or the able bodied men that are just too @#!!*! sorry to hold a job that sit in the store with their $200 boots and new trucks outside and whine, "ah'm just tryin' to feed mah family."

GRIMJIM · « **Reply #5 on:** July 15, 2008, 08:18:08 AM »

I'm glad to hear the positive responses. Believe me when I tell you this was in the middle of no where. Fly in trip, no roads for hundreds of miles. We were approximately 800 miles north of montreal and these people lived up there. This definately was not for sport and was for survival.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** July 15, 2008, 09:18:35 AM »

ETHICS ?
If its legal enjoy !
If you need the meat , hope you get it with no trouble . If you break the law for fun or because you are lazy , hope ya get the book thrown at you !
beemanbeme , we have some like that in VA. also claim to be poor ! shoot the deer then ride off cause they might get caught !

Freezer · « **Reply #7 on:** July 15, 2008, 09:28:02 AM »

After my brothers divorce he had a very bad time of it and he hunted to eat. If he missed the squirrel or rabbit that was dinner running away. I have no real problem if he hunting to feed his family. As stated he had a tag and that's the most important thing. Our tag systems ensure animals to hunt in the future. It sounds like he had a good opportunity and no drag back to the boat is a real plus

I have no patients for pouches and will do anything I can to get one busted. I've been known to let the air out of all their tires so they'll be there when the game warden arrives

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** July 15, 2008, 09:33:53 AM »

I hope they get their do !
But a snich reeks of BIG BROTHER !

oldyardog · « **Reply #9 on:** July 15, 2008, 10:49:54 AM »

50+ years ago you didn't have the free food and welfare programs you have to day. I know that they do some good with them but I am convinced that they are a big contributor to making people like "beemanbeme" is talking about. You even have hoards of people breaking the law to get into this country to take advantage of it.

End of thread hijack.

Oldyardog

Dave in WV · « **Reply #10 on:** July 15, 2008, 02:40:09 PM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on July 15, 2008, 07:45:03 AM

I agree with everything that has been posted. However, around here you get the out and out poachers or the able bodied men that are just too @#!!*! sorry to hold a job that sit in the store with their $200 boots and new trucks outside and whine, "ah'm just tryin' to feed mah family."

Gotta agree with you on this one Beeman. You see them in Wal-Mart around 3:00 AM with the whole family on a school night. Problem is those folks are everywhere. Watch Real Stories of the Highway Patrol and you see the same cast of characters in every state, especially when the troopers pull up to a trailer park. I wish the lifeguard would watch the gene pool better.

Freezer · « **Reply #11 on:** July 15, 2008, 06:21:40 PM »

Shootall, you don't understand. I live in a Nazi community in Kaliforniastan! I couldn't get a cop when they tore into my truck and when one did show up and I played on his sympathies to print the truck it was denied for above. I have allot more , please don't go there. Poaching has us where we are today. I know it won't help change the minds of the anti's but we have to do it right. Out here we can't shoot does, what a shame! I see 20 does for every buck I see (most aren't legal) and I do OK every year shooting only buck. The herds are way out of balance but who am I? I do it legal and fair chase. My preference on fair chase.

roper · « **Reply #12 on:** July 15, 2008, 10:50:27 PM »

Let me understand this one of the guides needed meat to feed his family so he violated this law
It is unlawful to chase or harass any wildlife with aircraft, motor vehicle, boat, snow-machine or all-terrain vehicle of any type.

I sure don't know how much it cost for a tag in Quebec for a local but I'd sure be turnig this outfitter (guides)in.
Using the excuse he needed the meat is pretty lame since the guide could afford to buy a tag so he is bound the same laws as the clients to fair chase.

I understand having to hunt to feed a family but why do something illegal in front of people.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #13 on:** July 16, 2008, 06:50:34 AM »

Roper makes a good point. Fellow had a job (guide) so why was his family starving?

Actually, in the USA, the poaching like I talked about is just another off shoot of the welfare mentality. They are so accustomed to a free ride, entitlements, that they look at killing game anytime they feel like it as a birthright. Game laws are something to be ignored or gotten around. Just like cheatring on how many kids they've got, whether they're married, if they've got a job, etc.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2008, 07:05:24 AM »

FREEZER, I live in Va. we shoot does and control the heard . IT WORKS ! . I have about 40 trucks on the road , when they get broken into they do the report over the phone . Dust for prints , if they did they would have to print everyone that had access to the truck so they could omit their print . Forget the Hollywood stuff . Consider how many trucks get broken into , cost of insurance - do you want taxes to grow to the point the police can DUST everyone ? I will let the insurance pay the bill and go on !
Don't go there , why not ? You and I can be perfect but some won't . I don't like the Govt. using us to tattle on each other . They should only pass laws they can enforce . Sorry but I don't get paid to be part of the moral police !

victorcharlie · « **Reply #15 on:** July 16, 2008, 02:45:55 PM »

Maybe the man was hungry?

hillbill · « **Reply #16 on:** July 16, 2008, 03:14:16 PM »

if i knew him, and his family WAS hungry, id of shot the deer for him and dumped it on his porch, tag or not.if its like it is here where he is then there are too many deer, especially does.a little thinning would do good.however if found out later he ate the tenderloin and left the rest, that would be it fer him.i been poor and hungry boys and when yu are ,law dont mean crap or ethics either.i wouldnt eat a endangered species or blatently break the law but ill eat wild game afore id shoot a neighbors cow.well actually id eat acorns fore i shot sumones cow.but i have poached a few rabbits fer supper here and there.

NONYA · « **Reply #17 on:** July 16, 2008, 05:47:50 PM »

Ask your Dad if hes ever been to a slaughter lot and seen where his burger comes from,its meat in the freezer not a trophy/recreational hunt,its nobodys buisness but their own IMO.

jhm · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2008, 03:07:18 AM »

If you have to ask yourself if its right or wrong (ethics) it usually is wrong. JIM

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2008, 05:28:04 AM »

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Roper makes a good point. Fellow had a job (guide) so why was his family starving?

Quote

One of the guides had a tag to fill. Two of them went out in a boat and coralled an animal in the water towards shore and shot it while it was still in the water.
This guy was not up there to hunt, he lived there and needed the meat to feed his family.

I interperted this to mean that (two of them) meant that one was the guide and the other was the guy who lived there. Could be wrong though.

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2008, 05:34:19 AM »

Quote from: jhm on July 17, 2008, 03:07:18 AM

If you have to ask yourself if its right or wrong (ethics) it usually is wrong. JIM

Ya have to remember that more harm has been done with the Pen than with the Sword though...Hahaha,
Sorry, I have had too much time for the forum due to illness and tend to run off at the fingers now & again.

NONYA · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2008, 05:38:37 AM »

All of you ethical experts obviously pay no mind to the way your chickens,beef and pork are killed,Hypocrisy RULES!WHo eally cares how they killed their winter meat?I gaurantee you they dont give a dam if you have a problem with it.Its really sad that so many spend so much of their day telling others they shouldnt be doing what they have done for generations to survive,why dont all you who have a problem with it move to CA,join peta and organize a mass suicide in order to draw attention to your ethical plight.

GRIMJIM · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2008, 05:41:15 AM »

Quote from: glanceblamm on July 17, 2008, 05:28:04 AM

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Roper makes a good point. Fellow had a job (guide) so why was his family starving?

I don't know if they were actually starving or not. But this was food for the table.

Quote
One of the guides had a tag to fill. Two of them went out in a boat and coralled an animal in the water towards shore and shot it while it was still in the water.
This guy was not up there to hunt, he lived there and needed the meat to feed his family.

I interperted this to mean that (two of them) meant that one was the guide and the other was the guy who lived there. Could be wrong though.

Actually they were both guides and one operated the boat while the one with the tag shot and then helped him quarter the animal.

Like I said I had no problem with it, he was not there for the "experience", it was just for food.

Yes the guy did have a job but for how long? He did the right thing and got a tag while he was making money but how long is caribou season? There is no place to work the rest of the year. He probably made a pretty good buck with tips and such but needs the meat to fill the freezer during the lean times.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2008, 06:34:24 AM »

ETHICS like PC is nothing more than an atempt by some to make others think like them !
DON"T YOU AGREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Freezer · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2008, 05:25:33 AM »

Shootall, Snitch my butt! I don't like the government much but I will protect myself and what I love! I love to hunt! I've had it with poachers. They give every hunter a black eye. I had poachers put a bullet five feet over my brothers head, land it five feet in front if my brother-in-law and I had to finish off their gut shot doe (buck season only). The game warden found them dragging the animal (I had to dress) out of the woods. The oldest had the gall to threaten my hunting party. I had others night shooting from a moving boat at animals in the water with a rifle and I was fishing on the shore. Those are the ones I flattened the tires on.
The laws not only protect our wildlife and hunting privileges but ourselves too. If there is someone in the woods inconsiderate or stupid enough to poach your darn straight I'll sick the law on them. I don't want to be in the same woods with an idiot with a gun.
No I don't agree! Ethics are a personal thing, like passing on a questionable shot. Not shooting wet animal (lactating). No Texas heart shots. Fair chase. I will not hunt with an unethical hunter and if I find one where I'm hunting I'll leave. Ethics can be agreed on and compromise made, but the law is the law! I have little tolerance for cliches like shootall, if it flies it dies, if it's brown it's down.
Let's give everybody here a break, stop the flames. I agree to disagree!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** July 18, 2008, 05:36:46 AM »

FREEZER,I have been shot at several times , once involved a still i got to close to and the others were drug growers in the national forest . do as you like as will i !
The money we spend to hunt and the abuse of the money Govt. does . Did you see where the head man in VaDGAIF used tax money to take an African hunting trip ? Anyway I see your side hope you see mine .

BBF · « **Reply #26 on:** July 18, 2008, 05:56:27 AM »

Freezer:
I sure would love to know about that Nazi place you live in. If the cops don't show up when you call, that sure doesn't sound like Nazi anything to me. Enlighten me why you used that term

beemanbeme · « **Reply #27 on:** July 18, 2008, 07:35:16 AM »

Reporting a law breaker is a snitch?? That sounds like some of the crap you hear in prison. Maybe down in the ghetto. Then the folks wonder why they don't get any police protection when they are the ones with the problems.

I don't know anything about Canada and their human services but speaking of the state in which I live, if a "man's" family is hungry it USUALLY means he's sold their foods stamps and used it and their welfare money to pay for his booze, drugs, and $200 boots.

Freezer · « **Reply #28 on:** July 18, 2008, 08:27:19 AM »

45-70 wrong forum, I'll PM you.