Author Topic: McCain on Healthcare....  (Read 3218 times)

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TM7

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McCain on Healthcare....
« on: July 18, 2008, 02:10:26 AM »
From an email.....you may get your wish, you'll finally be on your own..!
.
McCain’s Plan: You’re on Your Own
John McCain takes a totally different approach than we do. Taking the lead from a widely-criticized proposal advanced by President Bush in 2007, he wants to radically transform our health care system from one where people get insurance on the job to one where people are left to fend for themselves in an unregulated insurance market. With many proposals initiative spreads risks and costs by bringing people together, McCain’s plan encourages employers to drop their group coverage, forcing us to be on our own in the marketplace. Obama's plan would preserve comprehensive benefits (?), McCain’s would encourage the development of a system with very high deductibles, up to $11,000, and high individual co-payments for services.

Senator McCain will also impose a massive new tax burden on workers by treating their health benefits as income. In other words, if your employer contributed $9,000 a year towards the cost of your health insurance, you would be taxed on that amount even though you never received this money in cash. This tax increase would be partially offset by a modest tax credit that covers less than half the average health plan premium. His rationale is that by shifting costs to workers, we will use less health care. As he said during a Republican primary debate in December: “[N]obody ever washed a rental car. And that’s true in health insurance. If they’re responsible for it, then they will take more care of it.”

This is why we call McCain’s approach the “you’re on your own” plan. He would make federal tax code changes that would encourage employers to stop offering health benefits. This scheme will only push more people into substandard individual plans that would cost them more than acquiring them as part of a group. His plan means getting less — and paying a lot more than we do now.

McCain’s plan would leave patients at the mercy of the insurance companies by overriding state rules that protect consumers from company abuses. Furthermore, he refuses to use the government’s huge purchasing power to negotiate discounts with prescription drug companies. Instead, he will let them charge whatever the market will bear. His approach calls for limiting government oversight of health insurers and reducing its ability to address abuses such as denying coverage to those who have pre-existing conditions or canceling coverage when someone becomes ill.

Finally, McCain does not offer consumers the choice of buying into a public plan that’s a good value such as Medicare. He relies on the big insurance companies that are largely responsible for our current problems. According to the Government Accountability Office, administrative costs for Medicare are under 3 percent, while administrative costs for private insurance average 15 percent — and can be as high as 50 percent for individual coverage.

Which Side Are You On?
Should America guarantee quality, affordable health care we can all count on or will we continue to be at the mercy of the insurance industry?


Don't know if this is all true, but seems to be the size of it..........TM7

Offline PA-Joe

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 02:34:01 AM »
The fastest fix for this system is to allow all American's to have a pre-tax Health Savings Account/Plan. Rich people can already have their employers set up a pre-tax Health Savings Plan for them so the system works. As an alternative, we could simply change the IRS code to allow all American's to deduct all their medical costs from their gross income. This could easily be done on the 1040EZ or Regular 1040 form. That would give everyone an automatic 15-20% savings on their medical costs.

Besides: Since when is the payment of personal medical costs a "Federal" government issue. The Federal Government is limits to regulating "interstate commerce."

Offline DakotaElkSlayer

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 05:44:20 AM »
Besides: Since when is the payment of personal medical costs a "Federal" government issue. The Federal Government is limits to regulating "interstate commerce."

Actually, the United States was set up to be a country of Christian ideals...heck most people on here will tell you that.  Read the Bible, Jesus tells us to take care of the sick.

Jim
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Offline TribReady

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2008, 05:58:11 AM »
Besides: Since when is the payment of personal medical costs a "Federal" government issue. The Federal Government is limits to regulating "interstate commerce."

Actually, the United States was set up to be a country of Christian ideals...heck most people on here will tell you that.  Read the Bible, Jesus tells us to take care of the sick.

Jim

I think Jesus was talking to us as individuals. Giving should come from genuine love and concern and of your own free will.  Stealing from me to give to someone else "in need" just doesn't seem like the correct interpretation.  The next time the collection basket is passed at church I'll double check, but I don't think the usher has a handgun pointed at me.
A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson


...if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.  -2 Chronicles 7:14

Offline magooch

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2008, 06:11:47 AM »
PA-Joe, there's just one little problem with allowing all medical expenses to be deductible; which expenses are legitimate and which are excessive fluff.  Then you get into who gets to decide and what is fluff for some, may be very important to others.  For instance, some people think it is absolutely necessary to have birth control and that it is a legitimate medical expense.  Others think that limp dick medication is a must and should be deductible.  Some people think that relocating to a warmer climate in the winter is necessary to maintain their health and some people think that regular massage therapy should qualify.

My point is that it ain't as simple as it might sound.  Even on straight up medical issues that most people would classify as legitimate, there are often technical reasons why certain procedures could be argued as unnecessary.  Some things that are routinely treated in this country, are merely watched, or ignored in other countries--depending on a patients age, etc.

These issues and more are all part of the reason why medical care isn't going to be any easy thing to solve.  Those who think that some simple solution, such as single payer, or all out socialized medicine is going to be the anwer are dead wrong.  Those solutions will invaribly require heavy regulation and that's when it all begins to come apart.

Choice and competition may not be perfect, but it sure beats every other plan--if you can afford it.  I recently had a little stint in the hospital with a fairly serious issue and believe me, I'm so glad that I have the private medical coverage that I have and not some bureaucratic system where cost inevitably would determine ones care.  I want the doctors, nurses and hospitals to be motivated by competion to be the best--not guaranteed by a system that is mandated.
Swingem

Offline Dee

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2008, 09:29:06 AM »
One must remember, that McCain's GRANDFATHER, was an Admiral in the Navy. His FATHER, was an Admiral in the Navy. McCain has never had a job outside of GOVERNMENT.
How in the hell does anyone believe that he knows what he is talking about. He has been the RECIPIENT OF GOVERNMENT BENEFITS SINCE BIRTH. HE IS "STILL" THE RECIPIENT OF GOVERNMENT BENEFITS.
HE HAS NOT A "CLUE" OF WHAT IT IS LIKE IN THE CIVILIAN SPECTRUM. HE IS AN ELETIST WHOM VOTE "FOR" SENATORIAL PAY RAISES AND BENEFITS PLANS. HE IS PART OF THE "FORMING" ARISTOCRACY OF AMERICA.
WE ARE THE "FORMING" PEASANT CLASS.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Cabin4

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2008, 09:57:21 AM »
Besides: Since when is the payment of personal medical costs a "Federal" government issue. The Federal Government is limits to regulating "interstate commerce."

Actually, the United States was set up to be a country of Christian ideals...heck most people on here will tell you that.  Read the Bible, Jesus tells us to take care of the sick.

Jim

Why does us have to equte to Uncle Sam? Uncle Sam has a long history of messing things up.

Anyone today can walk into a public hospital and get help if they are sick today. So in fact, Uncle Sam is already taking care of the sick if thats the definition!!

This is the Liberal argument for everything. Let the Government take it over. They love to use Jesus when it serves their purpose and refer to his religion and symbol as evil when it serves one of their other purposes.

Don't fall into their trap.
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Offline jimster

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2008, 10:14:36 AM »
10-4 on Government intervention never working out...let's face it, they don't do anything well.

And...it's true, if you get hurt bad or real sick and go to the hospital, they will work on you right now. 

Not sure what the answer is to making things better...but government doesn't have that answer, nothing they get involved in makes anything better. 
I sure don't want them to take over my health care, or anything else for that matter.   

Offline jimster

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 10:42:25 AM »
yes, things get screwed up in both private and government deals...but what we are talking about here, is our Congress, writing 100 pages of crap, with add ons from both parties because neither side will pass anything unless "we get to add this"....and by the time it's done it's as worthless as they are.

no thanks...I'll take it the way it is....something that needs to maybe be better, instead of something from our wonderful Congress who couldn't pass a decent piece of legislation without turning into a nightmare that can never be undone.


Offline Dee

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2008, 01:12:18 PM »
Besides: Since when is the payment of personal medical costs a "Federal" government issue. The Federal Government is limits to regulating "interstate commerce."

Actually, the United States was set up to be a country of Christian ideals...heck most people on here will tell you that.  Read the Bible, Jesus tells us to take care of the sick.

Jim

Why does us have to equte to Uncle Sam? Uncle Sam has a long history of messing things up.

Anyone today can walk into a public hospital and get help if they are sick today. So in fact, Uncle Sam is already taking care of the sick if thats the definition!!

Since when did the GOVERNMENT start paying for UNINSURED WALK IN'S? The government doesn't pay SQUAT here in Texas or any other state that I am aware of for walk in's. The illegal ILLEGAL ALIENS that your beloved "LIBERAL McCain" wants to give amnesty to, have found that out and use emergency rooms night and day for FREE MEDICAL TREATMENT that the HOSPITAL PASSES ON TO "YOU", or EATS AS A LOSS. Hospitals along the Mexican border ON THE U.S. SIDE, are going broke and closing at a phenomenal rate because of the burden of these WALK IN'S.  ::) Educate yourself cabin4. The government isn't paying for this. Their TAXING THE HOSPITALS. ::)


This is the Liberal argument for everything. Let the Government take it over. They love to use Jesus when it serves their purpose and refer to his religion and symbol as evil when it serves one of their other purposes.

Don't fall into their trap.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Cabin4

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2008, 01:45:33 PM »
Besides: Since when is the payment of personal medical costs a "Federal" government issue. The Federal Government is limits to regulating "interstate commerce."

Actually, the United States was set up to be a country of Christian ideals...heck most people on here will tell you that.  Read the Bible, Jesus tells us to take care of the sick.

Jim

Why does us have to equte to Uncle Sam? Uncle Sam has a long history of messing things up.

Anyone today can walk into a public hospital and get help if they are sick today. So in fact, Uncle Sam is already taking care of the sick if thats the definition!!

Since when did the GOVERNMENT start paying for UNINSURED WALK IN'S? The government doesn't pay SQUAT here in Texas or any other state that I am aware of for walk in's. The illegal ILLEGAL ALIENS that your beloved "LIBERAL McCain" wants to give amnesty to, have found that out and use emergency rooms night and day for FREE MEDICAL TREATMENT that the HOSPITAL PASSES ON TO "YOU", or EATS AS A LOSS. Hospitals along the Mexican border ON THE U.S. SIDE, are going broke and closing at a phenomenal rate because of the burden of these WALK IN'S.  ::) Educate yourself cabin4. The government isn't paying for this. Their TAXING THE HOSPITALS. ::)


This is the Liberal argument for everything. Let the Government take it over. They love to use Jesus when it serves their purpose and refer to his religion and symbol as evil when it serves one of their other purposes.

Don't fall into their trap.

I am educated on this subject Dee...I actually read the post I responed to. Your not reading the posts again....

Anyone can walk into a public hospital in this country today and they cannot be turned down. So the government has not said nor is their a policy or law that allows a public hospital to turn anyone away if they need help. Your comments about the government paying or not paying for it are a mute point. In the case of a local county hospital, its funded by local tax dollars along with grants from the state level. So this is a mute point as well. Your only pointing out which pocket paid for it, local state or the feds. It doesnt mean anything anyway to the point about the bible saying we need to care for our sick. Our public hospitals care for the sick today, thats the point the earlier poster was getting at.

Please read the posts. Read the posts, read the posts.......This sounds way to familiar to me.


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Offline DakotaElkSlayer

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2008, 02:41:14 PM »
Besides: Since when is the payment of personal medical costs a "Federal" government issue. The Federal Government is limits to regulating "interstate commerce."

Actually, the United States was set up to be a country of Christian ideals...heck most people on here will tell you that.  Read the Bible, Jesus tells us to take care of the sick.

Jim

I think Jesus was talking to us as individuals. Giving should come from genuine love and concern and of your own free will.  Stealing from me to give to someone else "in need" just doesn't seem like the correct interpretation.  The next time the collection basket is passed at church I'll double check, but I don't think the usher has a handgun pointed at me.
  Gee, now I am confused!  When there was talk about the "Defense of Marriage Act," people on here said that we are a Christian nation and therefore it should be illegal for same sex marriage.  I use the SAME argument for the sick, and now it is "up to the individual"?   ???  Are we etching this in stone, or does it change to fit one's need?

Jim
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

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Offline DakotaElkSlayer

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2008, 02:49:26 PM »


Why does us have to equte to Uncle Sam? Uncle Sam has a long history of messing things up.

Anyone today can walk into a public hospital and get help if they are sick today. So in fact, Uncle Sam is already taking care of the sick if thats the definition!!
[/quote]

Do you remember the percentage of Americans that declared bankruptcy due to catastrophic illness?  Just googled it and found out it was HALF!!!  Whoopee!  Anyone can walk into a public hospital and walk out financially ruined!!!  Yipee skipee...sounds like a SWEET system we got goiing! ::)

Jim
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein

Offline torpedoman

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2008, 06:39:13 PM »
The fastest surest cure for health care is to put congress under the social security plan instead of their luxury plan they have for themself.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline magooch

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2008, 03:00:02 AM »
Unless I've missed something, there is no Social Security healthcare system.  Members of Congress do belong to the Social Security System and they pay FICA taxes.  I don't know if they have lifetime health coverage after they are out of Congress, or if they also are eligible for Medicare once they turn 65, but I suspect the latter is the case.

I still believe that the best chance for quality healthcare is going to be with the free-market for healthcare coverage.  Yes, it will require regulation, but without competition in the mix, any system will eventually degenerate to mediocrity at best.  I belong to an HMO (non-profit) and the quality of care is about as good as it gets.  I guess I'm fortunate to live in an area where a lot of choices are available--that's called competition--and if a provider doesn't provide a good plan, they won't make it.
Swingem

Offline Cabin4

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2008, 04:57:14 AM »
If we get Gov run health care we will get just that, gov run, gov waist, gov fat, gov type reduced services,gov bureaucracy, gov destroyed quality health care.

Despite what the media and Liberal Politicians tell us, we have the best health care system in the world. All this crap about gov health care is so we can get a plan to cover the 18 million or so that  have no plan at all. So the rest of the 280 million of us get screwed and have to let politicians and bureaucrats build a nice extremely large building in Washington to house thousands of bureaucrats to run our health care system. What a solution!

I implore, any of you folks that are for the gov taking over our health care system and see whats happened in the UK, France,etc. Compare it to what we have and you will know its the wrong way to go. Gov health care is just another way for the have not to get what the haves, have. And it will be done by degrading the services the haves, have. Ask a Canadian what they think of the Canadian system is not a valid test. Canadians don't use our system so they can't compare it to ours. Their just use to a crapy system and they think its good.

Its just another way for the Liberals to take over your life and make decisions for you, raise our taxes, and allow now health care to be an entitlement system like SS for political purposes.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline magooch

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2008, 02:55:06 AM »
TM7, I didn't say I endorse what McGore favors for health care; in fact, I don't know what plan he backs.  I just know that if the government gets involved in providing health care, or further into financing it, it isn't going to lead to better care.  We're already locked into Medicare--until it goes broke, or consumes most of the federal budget--so even if there is a move toward single payer, or a federal government program, they (Congress) had better figure out how to keep Medicare, Medicaid and the veterans systems from collapse.
Swingem

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2008, 04:30:41 AM »
I am almost positive that the Sens and Reps do NOT belong to SS nor medicare. I don't have the numbers but if Hillary were to retire right now and never serve another moment in the Senate the amount of her "pension" and the worth of her medical care would be obscene compared to what Joe Blow who put in 45 years at the foundry would receive from SS.  And that doesn't include how much Slick is stealing from the American public. 

Offline Cabin4

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2008, 05:40:02 AM »
Cabin......But Medicare has the lowest admin costs around and struggle to cap costs.  18 million..!?   Isn't it more like 45 or 50 million?  Are you down with the McCain idea of using med benefits to raise taxes?  Where do you get info/data from that says UK, Canada, Italy, etc. healthcare systems stink, because I get opposite information?

Not saying I'm for gov universal  healthcare here, but just discussing.  I do think corporate America thinks it is an idea whos time has come however.

..TM7

Medicare is only a gov run health insurance policy for seniors. We can't compare that to gov run socialized health care system. I understand that Obama plan starts similar to Medicare in that its a gov health insurance policy for non-seniors. But my point is that it will be just a start. And if your numbers are right and its say 50million that are not covered under a health policy, who will pay for all these 50 million uninsured? The tax payers will.....

My other point is that this will be just a start. It will be mess and costs will continue to rise and the liberals will blame rising costs on greedy medical & pharmaceutical corporations. This will be the next elections political argument for the liberals to completely take over our entire health care system in its entirety. Then we will have national union for doctors, one for nurses, one for cafeteria workers, one for orderlies, etc. Just like they have in the UK and may other countries.

To your point about you hearing from people in other countries how good their system is, please, try using it for your self and lets see how you feel then. Its not valid to ask a English or Canadian for example how their system is. All they know is what they have not what we have. So they are not in a position to compare.


My brother is a doctor and he flat out told me if the gov even puts in the Obama plan, he will retire. He's not going to put up with having to collect insurance money from the federal system for all his patients. He already has to put up with the medicare mess. From a doctors perspective, medicare sucks. So just think about all this together and what will eventually happen to our system. It will eventually have to become a total and complete 100% government take over that will happen gradually over time.

I am opposed to the gov taking over any private industry or medalling in people personal life. Obama's (Liberal) plan is just one of many steps in a strategy for the Liberals to take control of our lives and our political system at the same time. Entitlements are the Liberals way of making people dependant on the government, therefor the Liberals.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline rebAL

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2008, 02:23:29 AM »
From an email.....you may get your wish, you'll finally be on your own..!.........TM7
  Poppycock!

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2008, 04:52:27 AM »
If the Senators and Representatives retirements had been tied in with SS and Medicare it would be fixed in a heartbeat and it wouldn't have gotten screwed up in the first place.  Then dems wouldn't have looked at SS as a cookie jar of open up for every drooler they could entice to vote for them. Look at Rob't Byrd and his welfare fiefdom of WV.

Offline Beers

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2008, 05:17:23 AM »
Do you remember the percentage of Americans that declared bankruptcy due to catastrophic illness?  Just googled it and found out it was HALF!!!

Oh yeah, sure. Half the country is bankrupt. How can you be that credulous? Oh yeah, it came up on a google serach, must be true.

Offline TribReady

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2008, 05:36:15 AM »
Or is it "half of all bankruptcies" due to illness.

That may be the reason given by those polled, but is that really the reason??   I doubt it. I doubt most were fiscally sound at the time of the "illness"
A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson


...if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.  -2 Chronicles 7:14

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2008, 06:19:14 AM »
Magooch , ed and birth control pills should come out the entertainment budget !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2008, 06:30:56 AM »
DEE------------You make it sound as if being in the military is somehow a bad thing.  Do not equate the military as a government job, as it is far from it.  I do not especially like many of McCains ideas, but, he for one paid a hell of a price by putting his ass on the line for many years and suffering the consequences.  I liked my tour of duty (33)years, and the benefits of that long service................You want good medical .....Tricare for life and medicare............all at your expense....... ;D

Offline Dee

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2008, 08:44:08 AM »
DEE------------You make it sound as if being in the military is somehow a bad thing.  Do not equate the military as a government job, as it is far from it.  I do not especially like many of McCains ideas, but, he for one paid a hell of a price by putting his ass on the line for many years and suffering the consequences.  I liked my tour of duty (33)years, and the benefits of that long service................You want good medical .....Tricare for life and medicare............all at your expense....... ;D

Oh good grief, I said or insinuated no such thing. My entire family has been in, or has had family members in the military, and I have a son that is at the present time, a Sgt. in the 82nd Air Borne with three combat tours already. My oldest son also was air borne.
I SAID, that McCain has been raised in a military family, with government benefits for all family members ALL HIS LIFE. He does not understand NOT having the benefits, and the civilian struggle of having and maintaining medical insurance. He cannot understand as he has no experience living that way, as neither do I in living a military life style, as I have no experience at it.
I put "my ass on the line as you say" many times over my 20 year law enforcement career, but it does not qualify me for president or running a national health care system. If your going to criticize me, do so in context of what I ACTUALLY said.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Cabin4

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2008, 10:54:41 AM »
You don't have to have a "degree" in National Heath Care to have an opinion on it nor does it dis-quailify someone from having an idea on how heath care should or should not be run. Just look at Obama, he has absolutly no executive experiance of any kind oand  specifically no experinace in heath care yet he feels he's qualified to take over both our country and implement the
1st phase of communist health care. The guy no more experiance at running anything, yet millions of the dumb Americans will vote for him. This guy has less experiance then the average small general contractor as an example, yet he's trying to run our country. Very scary!!!
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2008, 12:47:03 AM »
YA'LL NEED TO STEP BACK AND LOOK AT WHAT IS BEING SAID , the folks in Washington have no clue how or what we need to live . They make the laws that define our life . I am getting the idea we are little more than a human pool for them insteasd of them being there to do our business .
I think Dee hit the nail on the head !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline superhornet

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2008, 05:08:58 AM »
Oh, good grief, DEE...Semper fi..... ;D

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: McCain on Healthcare....
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2008, 10:49:49 AM »
TM-7 , to ansewer your post - NO !
other than Reagan its been that way since i started voting ( nixon )
If ya can see it ya can hit it !