Double barreled Ten Gauge Shotgun?

[Dee]

Double barreled Ten Gauge Shotgun? I am NOT a black powder fan. Never have been. My son gave me a 50 caliber Traditions Hawken once, which I took out and shot 7 or 8 rounds thru. Ho-Hum.
BUT!
I recently read an article in Backwoodsman Magazine (a magazine which I dearly love to read) concerning a Pedersoli kit from Dixie Gunworks, for a 10 gauge double barrel shotgun (love double barreled shotguns). Don't even-know what it looks like other than the one small picture with the article, but it's versatility in shooting ball, or buck, or bird shot intrigued me. This could be a VERY USEFUL GUN.
I am at 59 years old, a man that has shot'em all over the years and have gravitated back to my roots. Lever actions, and pump shotguns, however, the older I get, the simpler I get in doing things the old way. Perhaps I miss the fifties too much. We were still doing some farming with a team back then, and didn't get electricity until the late fifties. Do I have post traumatic stress syndrome because of all that?
ANYWAY! Anybody know anything about them?

[kevthebassman]

I don't have one myself, but I've heard good things about them.  I've got a Pendersoli Colt replica and it is a good quality piece and pretty accurate too.

From what I've been told, a 10 gauge black powder shotgun is on par with a 12 gauge 3" mag, and is plenty good enough to do anything you can do with a shotgun.  The ones they sell at Cabelas come with screw in chokes, so you could do everything from turkey to quail and with a little work you could likely get tolerable accuracy with a roundball if you wanted.

[Dee]

With ball, this one allegedly shot both barrels inside the same 4" circle at 50 yards. That if true, is pretty good, wouldn't you say?

[kevthebassman]

With ball, this one allegedly shot both barrels inside the same 4" circle at 50 yards. That if true, is pretty good, wouldn't you say?

I'd say that it's outstanding.  Regulating barrels is tricky business even on custom made guns.  Certainly good enough to take game at that range.  If the gun tickles your fancy and the price is right, I say get it.  You only go around this world once, and you wouldn't have any problem reselling it if it wasn't up your alley.

[Dee]

I'm thinkin on it. My Grandpa and Dad were full blood Cherokee. Dad didn't hunt, cause he said he'd eaten all the game he wanted during the depression. Grandpa, hunted till the day he died. His total arsenal was an old octagon Marlin 22 lever action he found in a clay cave on the Verdigris River when he was a kid, and a single shot 12 gauge. But he hit what he shot at.
This black powder shotgun thing intrigues me as I get older. I'm not in as big a hurry as I used to be.

[mcwoodduck]

The black powder shotguns I have seen were in the late 80's and early 90's had fixed chokes and could be shot with a ball.  The current ones have screw in chokes and I am not sure that ball could be used.  But buck and shot are easy to use.  They also make a 75 calliber side by side rifle that is made to shoot ball.
I have only seen the 12ga used in the field.  A friend would use a special black powder wad and use Steel BB's from the BB gun to hunt woodducks in the swamp.
With his help I did load a bunch of paper shot shells with Pyrodex for my LC Smith with a twist barrel.  If I remember right it was 92 grains with an over the shot card, a fiber wad, and 1 1/8 oz of shot with an over the shot card.  The shells worked well for trap as well as quail.  The fiber wad with the black powder has a BBQ smell to it and will make you hungry after shooting for a while.
I know you are asking about 10 ga and not 12 but I did look into making some 1 1/4 oz practice rounds for my side by side 10ga and it was impossible to find componets.  Places that showed they had them in the catalog were out of stock.  I had to use another recipe with 20ga felt wads that is a real pian to load but that is another posting.
I think you would have a ball hunting upland birds with one.  I have looked into it a few times for dove, quail and Turkey but never got one and every time I wait the cost of one of the guns goes up by leaps and bounds.
Good luck.
Cabela's has them on line if you want to read up on them and the customer support will answer your questions about buck and ball.

[kevthebassman]

Wads and such for a 10 gauge may be a bit tough to find in stores, but Track of the Wolf carries specialty muzzleloading supplies and has everything you would need to get your 10 gauge double running smoothly.

[Dee]

Thanks gentlemen for the info.

[captchee]

 she will shoot round balls with the chokes out .
some folks do this with fixed chokes as well but i wouldn’t recommend it .

 for many years now i have only shot muzzleloaders and have a number of SXS ranging from .410 up to 10 gage . i prefer the .410 and 20 gages over the 12 and 10's  but past that  , they will do anything a  cartridge piece will do . But like the rifles you have to work a load .
 I have built a number of smooth  bores that would hold a full choke pattern at 30 yards  with the correct  load  without chokes . But again you have to find the load combination .
 Right now my favorite turkey  gun is a 20 gage smooth bore .IE 1742  French Tulle  in flintlock with a 42 inch barrel . She will flat roll the birds  out to 20 yards with 1 ¼ oz of #7 shot  backed by 80 grains of 3 F .
 she has done  the same to  one elk  using the same charge but with a RB , as of this date as well

[Fred Ford]

I have had several double muzzleloaders.
CVA's not too good!
The two tens (Pedersolli) were very good, but heavy. The lite pedersoli 12 as seen on Gun  Broker #105481448 is a dream to handle and shoot.
One of the best upland bird guns that you will find.
To get the best out of a muzzleloading shot gun, you have your homework ahead of you...but that is the fun of it all.
Just "WAIT" till you bag your first pheasant with it.  You're hooked.
The screw in chokes on muzzleloading shotguns try to make one gun do it all. WRONG!
That's why we have muzzleloaders, one ( a different one) for each day of the month. I like 31 day months.
F.F.

[Dee]

Good Lord Fred! As I get older, I'm finding less need for more guns, and selling some off! Am I really going to need 31 muzzle loaders?
Just kiddin. I really have sold several as I have, as previously stated, going back to my roots. I look at my 20 year career in law enforcement much of which was as a tactical supervisor, and I look at what tool I thought was necessary then, and what actually was, and many times they are not the same view now.

This is off topic, and yet on in many ways, but folks like Alvin York, and Audie Murphy, in their separate situations fought with their common sense minds, and not technology.
Technology has in many instances in the shooting spectrum, taken the common sense, and enjoyment out of not what I consider a sport, but a lifestyle.

On another note back on topic, Fred. Do you think at my age (almost 60), I would be better served with the 12 gauge, rather than the 10? One here touts the 20.

[mcwoodduck]

If you want the 10 get the 10.  It shoots only 1/8 ounce more per tube.  I think it will be easier to find 12ga black powder loading componets over the 10 that I had problems finding.  The guns are both going to be about the same weight with the same lenght tubes.

[Dee]

BUT! You point on components is a valid point. AND, will the ten do anything the 12 won't? I am in unfamiliar water here. Also, how much savings on powder per loading each one?

[longcaribiner]

Before doing much ordering of supplies go to the web site for circle fly wads and read the informative stuff they have about shotguns and wads.  The back of the Dixie Catelogue has several informative pages about muzzleloading shot guns.  I have never fired a 'screw in choke" muzzleloader.  I often thought they would be a real sob to clean.  I do shoor and often shoot a smooth bore trade gun in flint, or an original muzzleloader double 12 ga that I reworked.  A few years ago, I picked up a nice light doule 20 ga original that still needs some work, before the "good year test"     

I shoot PRB's from the smooth bore flinter, but never tried it in the old double.  A nice light shot load for upland game was always my favorite.  With farmers tearing out all the fence rows and not leaving anything but stubble in the fields, small game hunting around here has gone to H.  I still have a wood lot for squirrels and my personal over grown abandoned field for rabbits.  I haven't seen a live pheasant in 6 years, and that was probably and escapee from a pen.  I won't shoot a wood cock, even though I have them.  Doves are fun and fast shooting.  There's a muzzleloader club near here that has an annual shot gun match in the spring.  Shoot trap, etc.

When out hunting, I get a few strange remarks.  "Hey your cleaning rod is still in the gun. "  (Well yep, under the barrels where it is supposed to be.,)  Does the smoke hide the game?   Aint them things dangerous?   "Muzzle loader season isn't until after Christmas!" (Thats flint season for deer, ,, dummy.  This IS SMALL GAME SEASON  THis IS a shotgun for small game.)  Better watch out, you'll catch the field on fire.   

I took it goose hunting down on the eastern shore before the lead shot ban.  Had a two fer two shots in one group coming down.   The guide didn't realize what kind of gun I had until I started loading.  Says that thing 'll never kill a goose.  Showed him.     

Almost forgot:   www.circlefly.com

[kevthebassman]

BUT! You point on components is a valid point. AND, will the ten do anything the 12 won't? I am in unfamiliar water here. Also, how much savings on powder per loading each one?

The thing about standard components, at least I'm told, is that even for a 12 gauge, you've got to get components meant for muzzleloading shotgun, because standard smokeless components are made to fit inside a shotshell, and are undersized.  So you're still likely to be ordering from the internet anyway.

If you intend to go for turkey or waterfowl, I'd bite the bullet and get the 10.  If dove, quail, phesant, etc were on the menu, I'd think a 12 would get the job done.

[mcwoodduck]

As far as what will the 10 do that the 12 won't.  Nothing.  Other than throw an extra 1/8 of an oz of shot for the standard load.  Black powder shot gun is loaded by volume.  X powder for Y amount of shot for a standard of 1200 FPS.  So if you wanted to shoot 1 1/4 oz of shot out of the 12 you could just use the loading data for the 10.  Same goes for loading only 1 oz you would just load it for a 16ga.  I use lettters here as Pyrodex or other black powder substitutes use less to do the same.  This is where the 3 dram equivelant on a box of shot shells comes from.  3 drams of black powder with an 1 1/8 ounce load will give you 1200 + or - 5 feet per inch over or under 28 inches.  For every inch over 28 you will pick up 5fps and every inche under you will loose 5 fps  So a 20" coach gun will throw a 3 dram load 1160 fps and a 30 inch tube will toss shot 1210.  The larger the shot size the faster you can throw the shot.  I am in the middle of moving and I have packed the referance book I have other wise I would be able to give you some black powder loads with speed and you can do the math to get the loads for pyrodex.  It's 80% of black.  But your instruction manual will give you some loads.  Now as you increase payload in a ga you will increase the recoil as there is more surface area touching the barrel.  So a 1 oz load out of a 12 will have less recoil than the same load out of a 16 and a 11/4 will have more than out of a 10.
Oh yea.  Let me back up.
The standard loads for shotgun are.
28 ga is 5/8 of an oz and is .54
20 ga is 7/8 of an oz. .635
16 ga is 1 oz  .69 ( french smooth bore and was american standard in the Revolution and up to the start of the civil war as a smooth bore)
12ga is 1 1/8 oz  .729
10 ga is 1 1/4 oz .775
All increase by only 1/8 of an ounce as you go up in size except for the 28 to 20.  Way back when, there was also a 14 and an 11 ga as well that were popular in Europe and are the same diameter as military smooth bore muskets like the english brown bess  and a belgian rifle that the name excapes me.
As I said earlier there are special wads designed for black powder steel shot for water fowel.  As for all lead or bizmouth loads the standard over the powder, fiber wads, and over the shot cards are used.  I use the over the shot cards and pwoder wads in my 12 ga black powder loads for paper hulls as well as some goffey glitter rounds, confetti and streamer rounds that I slip into some of my friends skeet bags as jokes.  The inside of the hull is .729 on a 12 ga the same as the old bore diameter.  Now with back boring 735 to 775 is not uncommon. But I get away from the topic here.
TO answer your question with a modern 12ga 3.5 inch shell do what a 10ga 3.5 inch shell will do?  Both throw 2 to 2.25 oz of steel, bizmouth, or heavy shot to the same speed.  The 12 will have a slightly longer shot stream.  Again the differance between .775 and .729 in width.  So the 12 will have one or two extra layers of shot in the collumn with 7.5's in a given load.

[coyotejoe]

I've owned several ML doubles over the years, all Pedersoli fixed choke 12 gauges. All would shoot a fist size group at 50 yards from at least one barrel, whether the two barrels group together is a matter of random chance. My best accuracy with ball was with a discontinued Lyman mold, .648" diameter. I loaded those inside a regular plastic shotcup which was loaded atop two hard card over-powder wads. When shooting ball was the only time I used the plastic wads and if you use them I certainly recommend loading card wads under them for a better gas seal and less plastic mess in the bore.
  With shot loads, the ML gives up nothing to modern guns, with modified or full chokes you can drop pheasants to fifty yards. The earlier Pedersoli double 12s weighed only 5 1/2 pounds, kicked like a mule but sure were nice to carry. My current double weighs 7 1/2 pounds and since the weight is all in the barrels it feels more like a 9 pound gun. That is OK since I intend it mainly for trap shooting but for hunting I'd much prefer the old light weight gun. I'm sure the change was market driven, everyone wants to shoot magnum loads, but I sure liked the old gun with one ounce of shot. If you ever want to shoot steel shot, be sure your gun is ratted for it, the light guns were not.