Is the 454 Casull as effective in the 460S&W barrel?

[Fletcher D]

Hey guys.  I am looking for a pistol barrel for my encore.  I was looking at the 454, but then I wondered...why not just get the 460 and have the option for all 3 rounds (454, 460, 45LC).
Anybody have any experience with shooting 454 casull rounds out of the 460S&W barrel?  Is it as accurate?  Will it damage the chamber (due to the shorter casing) eventually if I shoot the 454 the majority of the time?

[yooper77]

I have a 15" 454 Casull barrel that I had cut down to 12" and a 6 screw T'SOB scope base and 3 rings installed by SSK Industries.

I personally don't need anything bigger than my 454 Casull, plus I wouldn't want to reload the 460 S&W Mag for the amount of powder it holds and brass price.

Hodgdon shows the 454 Casull over 2000 FPS with 240 grain jacketed bullet out of a 9.375" barrel, which transfers to extremely flat shooting even past 200 yards easily, splitting hairs with the 460 S&W Magnum.  I am sure the velocity is a little higher in a 12” Encore if I choose to load that hot.

I also heard the 460 S&W magnum brass head is a little larger than the 45 Colt or 454 Casull, so I don't know if that would make an accuracy difference.

I handload only and never shoot anything but 454 Casull length brass in my barrel, but I will download my 454 Casull brass if needed so the bullet doesn't need to take a bigger jump to the rifling.

I do have a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt so it’s nice to know I can use that ammo in my 454 Casull barrel if needed.

yooper77

[Grumulkin]

With the 460 S&W Mag. barrel, you do have the option for all 3 rounds.  If, however, you don't think you'll be shooting 460 S&W cartridges much in it, I would recommend getting the barrel made specifically for the cartridge you wish to shoot.

The 454 Casull and even the 45 LC are both certainly good enough for deer but the 460 S&W Mag. is definitely a longer range round.  All with proper loads could be accurate at the ranges they were intended for.  My preference is for the 460 S&W Mag. which I've found to be very accurate even out to 200 yards.

[Fletcher D]

Thanks guys...I am now thinking about something lighter...like a 25-06 (I am assuming that's got less recoil).  I have a RedHawk in 44 mag and that's really about as much recoil as I need.

[EdK]

A 25-06 is a great round but will be pretty inefficient in a handgun barrel - not that it shouldn't be done but certainly something to think about. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish but many folks find the 308 and 7-08 to be a nice happy medium in an Encore.

[Fletcher D]

A 25-06 is a great round but will be pretty inefficient in a handgun barrel - not that it shouldn't be done but certainly something to think about. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish but many folks find the 308 and 7-08 to be a nice happy medium in an Encore.

Inefficient for what?  Just curious if you are referring killing power or accuracy?

[EdK]

Meaning inefficient for the amount of powder burned. This has a ripple effect that can impact work (killing power) and accuracy among other things.

Wouldn't you want the most killing power given a certain level of recoil, flash, etc. ?
Wouldn't you want the best accuracy given the same?

There is nothing wrong with the 25-06 round. There is a reason however why it is not popular in handguns.

[Fletcher D]

Meaning inefficient for the amount of powder burned. This has a ripple effect that can impact work (killing power) and accuracy among other things.

Wouldn't you want the most killing power given a certain level of recoil, flash, etc. ?
Wouldn't you want the best accuracy given the same?

There is nothing wrong with the 25-06 round. There is a reason however why it is not popular in handguns.

How do you feel about the 243 in a 15" barrel?

[Redhawk1]

If you plan on shooting 454 Casulls most of the time, just get a 454 Casull Barrel, I had a S&W 460 Mag Encore barrel and shot all three rounds out of it, I found all three rounds to shoot very accurate.  The 25-06 will be just fine in the Encore, I have shot the 30-06, and 308 in my Encore handgun. I don't see a problem with much loss of power in the shorter barell.

As for accuracy, again I do not see a problm at all, if this is an accuracy problem, most of the time it is the shooter.

[poncaguy]

I have the 15" 460, shoots 45 Colt and 454 Casull's just as accurately as the 460's..................
'

[yooper77]

Fletcher D,

If you handload you can better match medium to fast burning powder to your pistol barrel, because factory rounds in the 25-06 Remington will have a slow burning rifle powder and will give you mediocre velocities.

I use IMR-4350 for the 243 Winchester in a rifle barrel, but I would use IMR-4064 for it in a pistol.

I have a 10" and 15" 7mm-08 Remington T/C Encore barrels and both burn IMR-4064 using 140 grain bullets efficiently.

yooper77

[Fletcher D]

Fletcher D,

If you handload you can better match medium to fast burning powder to your pistol barrel, because factory rounds in the 25-06 Remington will have a slow burning rifle powder and will give you mediocre velocities.

I use IMR-4350 for the 243 Winchester in a rifle barrel, but I would use IMR-4064 for it in a pistol.

I have a 10" and 15" 7mm-08 Remington T/C Encore barrels and both burn IMR-4064 using 140 grain bullets efficiently.

yooper77

Thansk for the info yooper...what's my best option if I don't handload?  Am I wasting my time with regular rifle loads in my 15" barrel (hunting for medium sized deer)?  I realize that's not as efficient, but is it good enough for now?

[Rog]

In my experince, and others as well, powders that typically give the best rifle ballistics will also give the best pistol ballistics, in most cases.  There are some cartridges that seem to work well with quicker powders.

In my 15" bbl 280 Ackley Improved, I am loading RL22 with a 140 gr bullet and getting 2750 fps.  Using H4831sc, which is a slightly faster powder, I am still only getting 2750 fps.  When I load IMR7828ssc, which is a slower burning powder, with a 140 gr bullet, I get 2830 fps.

If I were loading a 7-08, I would certainly give RL19 a try.  All the load data that I've seen for this round indicate that it might be the powder of choice, in terms of ballistics at least, in the 7-08.

[yooper77]

If you don't handload then I would give different factory loads a try to see which one is the most accurate.

I have tried IMR-4350 in my 15" T/C Encore 7mm-08 Remington and then tried IMR-4064 with the same bullet and my accuracy went up along with a little velocity increase with the faster powder.

I also like IMR-4064 for the 308 Winchester with 150 grain bullets.

Ackley Improved cases benefit greatly from the slowest burning powders, there is something magic with the sharp shoulder and being more efficient.

I do also love RL19 for the 243 Winchester with 100 grains bullets, very accurate.  RL19's burn rate is so close to the IMR-4831 which is my go to powder for 270 Winchester and 150 grain bullets.   I use IMR-7828 for the 257 Weatherby with 120 grain bullets.

yooper77

[Fletcher D]

Will do...thanks for all the help.

[Rog]

FletcherD,

The answer to your question regarding whether you are wasting your time with rifle loads is "no".  Until you try something you really don't know what you're gonna get.  The latest Hornady manual has some good info on rifle cartridges in T/C Encore barrels. 

Even the "Light Magnum" loads from Hornady, and others, will give an increase in velocity even in the short pistol barrels.

Yooper77, I am not suprised at the results you got regarding IMR-4064 vs. IMR-4350.  I got similar results in my 30-06 JDJ as well.  The IMR-4064 gave me nearly 100 fps faster MV when compared to H-4350, with virtually the same accuracy.

Again, I re-iterate, generally speaking, the same powders that give the best rifle ballistics typically give the best pistol ballistics, with some exceptions.  Pistol barrrels do not, as a general rule, require faster powders to give the best results.  You and both have listed some of the exceptions.

Based on data generated by different powder and bullet companies, I think that RL19 would be an excellent choice in 7-08, in terms of external ballistics.  I've got a 7-08 bbl that I will be trying soon,  so I may soon find out.