Author Topic: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!  (Read 1004 times)

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Offline Cabin4

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Barack Hussen Obama openly supports cities like San Francisco to hold "Sactuary City" status. Which means that even in cases of criminal activity of illegal aliens, the city refuses to cooperate with immigration officials on deportation. Obama and his buddy mayor of San Fran, Gavin Nusom, are unwilling to even in cases of violet crime, to deport illegal aliens.

Recently in San Fran, a known repeat offender of violet crimes, was kept in San Fran and hidden from ferderal officials because he would be deported. Now this violent crimial killed in cold blood, father and his 2 sons. Yet, Gavin Newsom and Obama refuse to support the federal government in deportation.

Newsom and his entire adminisration should be charged with accomplises to mass murder and harboring criminals under our federal system. If some criminal breaks into my house and breacks into my gun safe, takes one of my guns and usses them to coimmit a crime, I can be held both criminally and civially liable under Califronia law. Even if I took all nesessary precautions yet our elected officals can openly break the law and get away.

I watched a live interview of the widow today....very powerfull. I hope anyone thinking about voting for Obama understands that you or someone you know could be next.
More to come of this when Obama is elected president. Read on...


The brutal and senseless murder last month of Tony Bologna and his sons Michael, 20, and Matthew, 16, at the hands of Edwin Ramos, a native of El Salvador and known member of the Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) street gang, was a reminder that inviting illegal activity can turn deadly. The Bolognas were on their way back from a family picnic when they inadvertently blocked Ramos' car from making a left turn in the Excelsior district. When Bologna politely backed up to let the other car past, Ramos responded by opening fire and killing all three passengers. Ramos has been charged with three counts of murder, with the added penalty of street-gang involvement.   

So far, much of the outcry surrounding the case has centered on San Francisco district attorney Kamala Harris' policy of not seeking the death penalty, in this case, against the wishes of widow, Danielle Bologna. But in the process, Ramos' immigration status has largely been overlooked. Ramos' original lawyer, Joseph O'Sullivan, claimed that his client was in the country legally and applying for permanent residence, but federal immigration authorities insist otherwise and promise to deport Ramos if he is convicted. O'Sullivan has since asked to be removed from the case, claiming a connection via a previous client. Thus, he has never had to explain his assertions regarding Ramos' immigration status.   

This certainly wasn't Ramos' first brush with the law. He was booked both on felony weapons charges and for being a member of a criminal street gang earlier this year, but escaped prosecution for lack of evidence. However, as reported by the San Francisco Chronicle, the San Francisco Police Department "cited 'numerous documented contacts' that officers had with Ramos and [his companion] Lopez, and said both were active members of the MS-13 street gang.'" But thanks to San Francisco's sanctuary city status, instead of being reported to federal immigration authorities and deported, Ramos was allowed continue to roam the streets of San Francisco until his arrest for the Bologna killings.   

San Francisco's sanctuary policy has also taken a statewide toll. While adult illegal immigrant felons are not protected by the ordinance, no such stipulation exists for juvenile offenders, and city officials have used that loophole to dump the problem onto other counties. Earlier this month, San Bernardino County officials threatened to sue the city of San Francisco for sending a group of Honduran, illegal immigrant, juvenile crack dealers to group homes in the city of Yucaipa without notification. Eight of them simply walked away from the unsecured group homes and only one has been recaptured. Officials later acknowledged that this wasn't the first time San Francisco had unloaded criminal illegal immigrants onto San Bernardino County. In fact, Yucaipa has seen a rise in violent crime in accordance with the influx of foreign offenders to its group homes in recent years.   

This time around, the outcry from San Bernardino officials caused Mayor Newsom to alter the city's approach to juvenile offenders. No doubt, Newsom's interest in running for governor of California, which he announced just before the controversy erupted, influenced his decision. While Newsom may find a sympathetic audience in San Francisco to his former commitment to sanctuary protections for illegal immigrants, it could prove a liability on the statewide level.   

Even on a local level, there's some indication that people are getting fed up with the city's insistence on emphasizing ideology over public safety. In a local CBS poll, 79 percent of respondents agreed that San Francisco should "turn over convicted illegal immigrants for deportation."   

Monetary concerns are another factor. It doesn't help that Mayor Newsom and other officials bemoan the city's $338 million budget deficit, even as funds continue to pour into sustaining San Francisco's sanctuary city policies. San Francisco has spent millions of dollars housing juvenile, illegal immigrant offenders and hundreds of thousands of dollars flying them back to their countries of origin in recent years, instead of turning them over to federal immigration authorities as federal law requires. In the wake of the furor over the Honduran case and federal authorities' demand that San Francisco end the flights, the city started housing some of the dealers in youth rehabilitation centers, costing taxpayers $7,000 per month, per person.

Then there's San Francisco Supervisor and State Assembly candidate Tom Ammiano's brilliant plan to provide municipal identification cards to those who either cannot or will not obtain a state-issued driver's license – or in other words, illegal immigrants. Set to go into effect next month, the ID program could cost up to $2.86 million in the first three years, according to a County Clerk estimate. As it turns out, Newsom's aforementioned $83,000 taxpayer-funded love letter to illegal immigrants was just the icing on the cake.   

Supporters of San Francisco's sanctuary city policies, which include members of the local faith community who inspired the original ordinance, argue that the current approach is the only humane solution. In its 2007 pledge, the New Sanctuary Movement, describing immigration raids, stated that "We cannot in good conscience ignore such suffering and injustice." But where is the compassion for the injustice inflicted upon American citizens? Others argue that juvenile illegal immigrants deserve special treatment because they are minors. But this ignores the fact that criminal illegal immigrants and the drug cartels for whom some of them work, are aware of San Francisco's former sanctuary loophole and have taken to falsely claiming juvenile status as a result. Still, others argue that police departments need to work with illegal immigrants in the community in order to effectively tackle crime and that fears of deportation get in the way. But extending the current, chaotic state of affairs will only lead to further crime and misery, even for those within such communities.   

While San Francisco's sanctuary city ordinance may have been well-intentioned, it has resulted in an untenable and anarchic situation that is taking its toll on city residents and surrounding counties alike. Providing sanctuary for law-breakers at the expense of law-abiding citizens is neither a compassionate nor a moral approach. The issue is not one of callousness towards illegal immigrants, but rather, the duty owed American citizens by their government. In some respects, every layer of the government has failed this test, but in this case, it's the local government that is absconding on its duties. And all San Francisco officials can seem to offer up is more of the same.   

They don't call it the Wild West for nothing.

Artical source:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/07/16/cstillwell.DTL

Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline DakotaElkSlayer

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2008, 08:15:15 PM »
Hmmm...never saw anything about a policy that allows killing of innocent Americans in that entire piece.  What policy is it that says it is OK to kill Americans?  Where is the quote from Obama that says he's in favor of policies that allow the killing innocent Americans?

Jim
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2008, 01:34:04 AM »
An Obama maniac here on Graybeards outdoors? Looking at the current crop of Presidential candidates I would like to see a none of the above on the ballet. But since that option is not there I will do everything within my power to keep this muslim sleeper agent, Barrak Hussien Obama from becomeing president. And Dakota Obama is a pro abotion animal, there fore he supports the killing of innocent Americans.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline magooch

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2008, 02:47:10 AM »
Illegal aliens who commit crimes in this country, should be deported, but they should be shipped out in a pine box.  And yes, I mean any crime--including entering this country illegally.
Swingem

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2008, 03:22:20 AM »
Hmmm...never saw anything about a policy that allows killing of innocent Americans in that entire piece.  What policy is it that says it is OK to kill Americans?  Where is the quote from Obama that says he's in favor of policies that allow the killing innocent Americans?
Jim

It was pretty clear to me as it is called Political Asylum for the illegals in short.
What is even worse is that it has a way of gravitating down to the clean activitiys such as the youth sports. I know of one case involving high school girls software (ours was a traveling team) where coaches and players were scared to death of the cursing, spitting, bottle throwing crowd of alledged illegals during a game that was not going their way. The Officials Did Absoultely Nothing to try & control the unruly crowd...Yep, the (Sactuary City) status was in effect here for sure as our people were told.

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2008, 08:30:01 AM »
I'm not a lawyer but where does state's rights stop and federal's start?  Murder is a crime against the state.  Illegal entry into the USA is a federal crime. (I assume even tho say the guy only snuck into Calif)  So, to me, the greater crime would be murder so, in this case, Calif would get first crack at him and when they were done, the feds would get their go.  IE, say he got 20 years for the murder. After he had served his prison term, he would be turned over to the feds for deportation. 










Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2008, 10:30:06 AM »
Quote
Recently in San Fran, a known repeat offender of violet crimes, was kept in San Fran and hidden from Federal officials because he would be deported. Now this violent crimial killed in cold blood, father and his 2 sons. Yet, Gavin Newsom and Obama refuse to support the federal government in deportation.
.
Huh..?  Why would anybody want to deport a homocide fellon? He should be trialed here and sentenced here in this case....keep the feds away if they were going to release him...Right?

..TM7

The point is we should have never gotten to the point about putting him on trial for the triple homicide to begin with! He should have been deported under federal law when arrested for the first crime he commited. Instead, San Fran hides illegals from the Feds. The mayor and his attorney general should be held liable as accomplices to Murder! Just I would be held liable as an accomplice if I enabled a murder. Same thing.

The Mayor directly has polices for a sanctuary city which means, local law enforcement is prohibited from cooperating with the Feds. If I robbed a store in San Fran and was caught by the San Fran police and they found there was warrant out by the feds for my arrest, they would turn me over. Illegals get special privileges to commit federal crimes and the city will harbor them!!

Obama supports a cities right to hide illegal aliens from the Feds!! Obama therefor supports polices that allow killing of innocent Americans.

I hope all the Obama supports will sleep better tonight knowing that if their loved ones are murdered by an illegal with a prior crimial history, your city may just be an accomplice to their murder.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2008, 02:28:06 AM »
Killings turn focus on S.F. sanctuary law
Undocumented immigrants, including felons, shielded from deportation

updated 5:18 a.m. CT, Thurs., July. 24, 2008
SAN FRANCISCO - The scene repeats itself daily on city streets: a driver gets stuck bumper to bumper, blocking an intersection and preventing another car from turning left.
But authorities say that was enough to cause Edwin Ramos to unload an AK-47 assault weapon on a man and his two sons, killing them.
The deaths immediately drew public outrage, which intensified when authorities revealed that Ramos, 21, is an illegal immigrant who managed to avoid deportation despite previous brushes with the law.
-------
This artical came out just yesterday and the whole thing can be viewed on the MSN news...
It seems that the DA just doesn't know what she is going to do about this even though the fed's were quick to confirm that they had no records of Ramos being a legal citizen.
 >:( >:( >:(
You can bet that the illegals like Ramo's have no appreciation for the San Fran santuary law but instead regard us with contempt as being a weak people.



Offline Dee

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2008, 03:08:18 AM »
Quote
Recently in San Fran, a known repeat offender of violet crimes, was kept in San Fran and hidden from Federal officials because he would be deported. Now this violent crimial killed in cold blood, father and his 2 sons. Yet, Gavin Newsom and Obama refuse to support the federal government in deportation.
.
Huh..?  Why would anybody want to deport a homocide fellon? He should be trialed here and sentenced here in this case....keep the feds away if they were going to release him...Right?

..TM7

The point is we should have never gotten to the point about putting him on trial for the triple homicide to begin with! He should have been deported under federal law when arrested for the first crime he commited. Instead, San Fran hides illegals from the Feds. The mayor and his attorney general should be held liable as accomplices to Murder! Just I would be held liable as an accomplice if I enabled a murder. Same thing.

The Mayor directly has polices for a sanctuary city which means, local law enforcement is prohibited from cooperating with the Feds. If I robbed a store in San Fran and was caught by the San Fran police and they found there was warrant out by the feds for my arrest, they would turn me over. Illegals get special privileges to commit federal crimes and the city will harbor them!!

Obama supports a cities right to hide illegal aliens from the Feds!! Obama therefor supports polices that allow killing of innocent Americans.

I hope all the Obama supports will sleep better tonight knowing that if their loved ones are murdered by an illegal with a prior crimial history, your city may just be an accomplice to their murder.

While I am in agreement with you TOTALLY on illegal immigration, I would REMIND YOU, that while you take exception to Sanctuary Cities, which I do also, MCCAIN wants THEM ALL TO STAY NATION WIDE. He wants to GIVE THEM ALL SANCTURARY. He wants to GIVE THEM AMNESTY!
Isn't your outrage on this issue of Obama and Sanctuary Cities, somewhat of a double standard given your support of McCain and HIS amnesty plan? McCain has even sold out his own home state on this issue. Just wondering.
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Offline dukkillr

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2008, 05:34:44 AM »
I'm not a lawyer but where does state's rights stop and federal's start?  Murder is a crime against the state.  Illegal entry into the USA is a federal crime. (I assume even tho say the guy only snuck into Calif)  So, to me, the greater crime would be murder so, in this case, Calif would get first crack at him and when they were done, the feds would get their go.  IE, say he got 20 years for the murder. After he had served his prison term, he would be turned over to the feds for deportation. 

It's more complicated than that, but generally the Feds put an immigration hold on someone that has been charged.  Then depending on the jury and sentence they will wait or jump in.  As long as that hold is there the person will not hit the street without the feds approval.

Offline Dee

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2008, 06:03:04 AM »
For that theology to be found INVALID dukkillr, one must only look to the Joe Horn case in Houston Texas. Both men Horn shot and killed had not only PREVIOUS CONVICTIONS, but had spent time in the Texas Dept. of Corrections. The FED's were FULLY WARE of them. Hell, many of the members on THIS FORUM, thought Horn should be punished, and some of those, are trying to lay all this off on one NEW SENATOR, when Senators like McCain have been advocating open borders for over 20 years.  ::) I spent 20 years of frustration dealing with illegal immigrents that the INS WOULD NOT DEPORT, because the crime was not serious enough. They wouldn't even come to our jail and interview them.
While Obama is as guilty as sin on the immigration situation, McCain is JUST AS GUILTY, and in fact WANTS AMNESTY for them. On this issue, ONCE AGAIN, Obama and McCain are wearing the SAME SHOE SIZE. The American people seem to want the ticks off the dog, while leaving the fleas.
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2008, 10:08:26 AM »
Dee,

I don't think I have a double standard at all. Please verify McCain position on sanctuary cities. I'm under the strong impression that he does not support them. On the case of amnesty, I know McCain is dead Azz wrong on this.

But my point on this whole post is this: mayors in this country have taken the position to allow illegal aliens safe harbor and hide them federal prosecution. How can we allow this? These mayors are breaking the law. If you I were hiding a criminal in our house, both the feds and local law enforcement would prosecute us. Yet, our elected officials, sworn into office to uphold the law are openly implementing polices specifically designed to break federal law.

Mayor Newsom of San Fran and is attorney general are common criminals. Same goes for the idiot that runs NYC and the rest of the sanctuary city mayors. Plain & simple they are Common criminals.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline Dee

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2008, 01:24:15 PM »
cabin4, I am in COMPLETE agreement with you on ANY CITY harboring and or protecting ILLEGAL ALIENS from the Feds. But understand that the Feds are in fact US!
If McCain and all the other Congressmen and Senators would do their job, i.e. LISTEN TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, there wouldn't be any sanctuary cities, because there would be very few ILLEGAL ALIENS.
My neighbor, the State of Oklahoma, has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that this problem can be dealt with by the stroke of a pen.
They simply made it a FELONY to employ, harbor, house, transport, or sell to an illegal alien. Result? Tulsa Oklahoma lost 25,000 of it's population in 7 days. My family that lives there and in other Oklahoma cities and towns, are ex tactic, and say there is a marked change in the general atmosphere of many neighborhoods, AND stores.
Folks like Obama AND MCCAIN, are INDIFFERENT to US. It is time for a change, and McCain AIN'T CHANGE. McCain is PART AND PARCEL of the current problem.
They see these illegals as uneducated future tax payers, that will THANK the GOVERNMENT for saving them. It is the same reason that welfare recipients vote LIBERAL. Now with these two candidates, it is a win-win situation for the entitlement crowd AND the illegal immigrant crowd.
The title of this thread should be: Obama AND McCain BOTH Support Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!  Because BOTH DO!
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2008, 08:09:15 PM »
Dee,

I feel like we need a revolution in this country to fix it while there's still time and still people around like us that know & understand what this great country has lost to the liberal slime.

This will be the worst election for me since being old enough to vote. Going to the pols this November will be the least inspiring election ever. I rather go to the dentist.

As I have said, I hate McCain but hate Obama even more. Its sad that this is the best our country can offer its people as potential presidents....

What will come of us? I fear like never before that the final nail in our countries coffin is about to happen come November.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2008, 01:46:48 AM »
cabin4, I am almost 60 years old, and have been watching candidate quality go down for quite some time. I have family members older than me, by 15 to 25 years. They are rabid Republicans, and although the talk at the coffee shop is CHANGE, they themselves WILL NOT CHANGE their voting habits.
They continue to say, MAYBE AFTER THIS ELECTION but, they and most of America have been saying this election cycle, after election cycle and still, the spiral is DOWNWARD.
I suspect I am quite a bit older than you, and this in my opinion truly IS the worst crop of candidates that I can remember HOWEVER!
I am going to the polls with a DIFFERENT ATTITUDE from same ole, same ole. I started voting 3rd party candidates in Senate and Congressional elections some time ago, and down here some have actually won. Ron Paul was originally Libertarian and won, but switched parties trying to get more support. He still votes Constitution, and Bill of Rights, AND STILL WINS DOWN HERE IN TEXAS, and our present crop of Senators and Congressmen make fun of him, and consider him a radical. Can you imagine what they would think of Jefferson, Hancock, Revere, Franklin and others in this day in time?
You say we need a revolution in this country? I agree, BUT! What we need to TRY FIRST, is a REVOLUTION AT THE POLES, before we HAVE TO HAVE that other type of revolution.
I am NOT AFRAID of Obama, nor McCain. One will no doubt win, and one is as bad as the other, and in four years it will be even worse than this election. I am READY to face the music of voting for the lessor too many times, and getting it over with, once and for all.
I have gotten off the carousel, and no longer voting in circles, and will stand for what is right, rather than what is lessor. The voting population of America has been reduced to the habit of VOTING OUT OF FEAR of what one or the other candidate will or won't do. If we had been voting for the best candidate ACCORING TO THE CONSTITUTION and BILL OF RIGHTS, we would never NEED to vote out of fear of EITHER candidate. We as a people have LOST CONTROL, and are unwilling to SACRIFICE TO REGAIN CONTROL of our system. We are, as a country BEING CONTROLED.
As I have said: WASHINGTON "WILL NOT CHANGE" UNTIL "WE CHANGE". Why should they?
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2008, 05:16:38 AM »
Dee,

All of your points are 100% valid. Including the one about being a bit older.  :) At 46 I've witnessed this country go down the drain fast because of the idiots that get elected. But when I look around the big cities of this country, its easy to understand how these idiots get elected. Honestly, the president is not nearly as important as the congress, senate our state legislatures, mayors and governor's. Collectively, these people have a much greater impact on our lives then the president ever can and because of how bad our presidential candidates are, I'm already focusing on what I can do with these other elected posts.

I think Heston put it best years ago, he said the USA is in a "culture war". Its the big city culture versus the rural culture. If you really look at this and examine it from a political perspective, Heston was 100% correct. I believed him then and I believe its the engine that drives our politics. The city culture wants to wipe-out the rural culture.

I agree, Washington will not change until we do.

Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2008, 11:21:39 AM »
I don't think this country is fixable at the polls. Sadly tho I also do not think it's fixable via violence of a revolution either. It's far too late for that to succeed. That opportunity was lost probably at least ten years ago but for sure it died on 9-11 with the legislation passed afterwards. Pehaps 50 or 100 years from now a revolution could succeed but the window for it now is passed. We're gonna hit rock bottom and stay there for at least a generation or three before a way out can be found.


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Offline ms

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2008, 11:53:34 AM »
He's part of the nwo he will be there man.

Offline BBF

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2008, 07:16:28 AM »
You can always hope that either of the two VP's are better. Mc Cain collapses or Obama gets his A$$ shot off.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2008, 09:40:54 AM »
Well said 45-70!
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Dee

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Re: Obama Supports Policies that allow Killing of Innocent Americans!!
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2008, 11:03:08 AM »
Dee,

All of your points are 100% valid. Including the one about being a bit older.  :) At 46 I've witnessed this country go down the drain fast because of the idiots that get elected. But when I look around the big cities of this country, its easy to understand how these idiots get elected. Honestly, the president is not nearly as important as the congress, senate our state legislatures, mayors and governor's. Collectively, these people have a much greater impact on our lives then the president ever can and because of how bad our presidential candidates are, I'm already focusing on what I can do with these other elected posts.

I think Heston put it best years ago, he said the USA is in a "culture war". Its the big city culture versus the rural culture. If you really look at this and examine it from a political perspective, Heston was 100% correct. I believed him then and I believe its the engine that drives our politics. The city culture wants to wipe-out the rural culture.

I agree, Washington will not change until we do.



Well, I would certainly agree with all you've said here. These facts that you have just stated, are the reason that I have finally taken the stand that I have taken. I will not endorse their bad behavior with my vote. I will vote ONLY for those in support of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Will I make a dent? Probably not, there are not enough stubborn old coots like me out there, but I know where I stand, and why I stand there. The politicians can kiss my old southern a#@.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett