If they hadn't shot down the fourth plane it would've hit the dome"

[ms]

Navy Prosecutor In Gitmo Case: "If they hadn't shot down the fourth plane it would've hit the dome"
"Bin Laden driver" case contains revealing details

   
Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Wednesday, July 23, 2008
 
 
 
 
 
     

 Though the trial the man, dubbed "Osama bin Laden's driver", is primarily functioning as a show piece for the Bush administration's "war on terror", some interesting information emerged from the Guantanamo Bay naval base yesterday in the form of a direct admission from a US prosecutor that the fourth plane was "shot down".

The revelation came during assertions from representatives for the prosecution that Salim Hamdan had detailed knowledge of the intended target of the fourth hijacked plane on 9/11.

A Reuters report states:

...prosecutor Timothy Stone told the six-member jury of U.S. military officers who will decide Hamdan's guilt or innocence that Hamdan had inside knowledge of the 2001 attacks on the United States because he overheard a conversation between bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

"If they hadn't shot down the fourth plane it would've hit the dome," Stone, a Navy officer, said in his opening remarks.

The tribunal's chief prosecutor, Col. Lawrence Morris, later explained that Stone was quoting Hamdan in evidence that will be presented at trial. Morris declined to say if the "dome" was a reference to the U.S. Capitol.

The report goes on to state "United Airlines Flight 93 crashed in a field in rural Pennsylvania. U.S. officials have never stated it was shot down although rumors saying that abound to this day."

(Article continues below)


Were Stone's words a "slip of the tongue" in the vain of former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's when he also told reporters that flight 93 was shot down?

Flight 93 had an 8 mile wide debris field, a fact that does not tally with official story that the aircraft was fully intact in the seconds before it hit the ground.

Large pieces of fuselage were also recovered from a marina in Indian Lake, a couple of miles away from the crash site, and the planes engines, which according to the laws of physics should have plunged deep into the ground along with the rest of the airliner were never found.

Only a one-ton segment of an engine was ever recovered, again more than a mile from the crash site, which the FBI declared had ‘bounced’ there.

The wreckage from flight 93 remains under armed guard inside Iron Mountain.

Eyewitness accounts, in addition to one call from the flight, also describe loud engine noises, white smoke and parts falling from the flight as it approached its final resting place.

We have previously reported on credible individuals who claim to have personally talked with the pilots who shot the plane down.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 

[DalesCarpentry]

The day that 911 happened I heard that there was at least one 911 call that came from one of the passangers as they were flying over Acme Pa. That is where we lived at the time and who knows it could have come down in our back yard instead of where it did.

[billy_56081]

"We have previously reported on credible individuals who claim to have personally talked with the pilots who shot the plane down."

Name these nameless "credible" individuals! Or it is nothing but rumors.

[powderman]

Uhhhhhh, BILLY. It was president Bush and his Israeli copilot dontcha know. None of the cell phones calls from that plane indicated anything other than the passengers tried to stop it but failed. POWDERMAN. 

[DalesCarpentry]

Uhhhhhh, BILLY. It was president Bush and his Israeli copilot dontcha know. None of the cell phones calls from that plane indicated anything other than the passengers tried to stop it but failed. POWDERMAN. 

You are dead wrong there. They can tell from cell phone towers where the call comes from. There was at least one call that came in over my tiny little town. I am not saying the person that made the call said HEY WE ARE FLYING OVER ACME RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!! What I am saying is it has been proven that one of those calls came from my area. Thanks for calling me a liar though. Dale

[torpedoman]

think this tead is B.S. put it out in the garden were it can serve some use.

[30-06man]

Large pieces of fuselage were also recovered from a marina in Indian Lake, a couple of miles away from the crash site, and the planes engines, which according to the laws of physics should have plunged deep into the ground along with the rest of the airliner were never found.

Only a one-ton segment of an engine was ever recovered, again more than a mile from the crash site, which the FBI declared had ‘bounced’ there.

They said the Lake was a mile away if driven on the road. The way a crow flies it is less.

think this tead is B.S. put it out in the garden were it can serve some use.

I am intrested in hearing what MS says and his explanation for this BS.

[powderman]

DALE. I was being facetious, kidding. I thought I had supported your claim about the calls. ?. POWDERMAN. 

[magooch]

Well, this thread started out with a hint of BS, but TM7 has completed the job.  It stinks too much for me!

[ms]

Well, this thread started out with a hint of BS, but TM7 has completed the job.  It stinks too much for me! I know the truth hurts

[DalesCarpentry]

I am sorry then Powderman. I took it the wrong way. Dale

[powderman]

I am sorry then Powderman. I took it the wrong way. Dale

HEH. See Dale I decided to be tm for one post, thats what came out. POWDERMAN. 

[DakotaElkSlayer]

Might be BS.  But apparently it does confirm that our defenses will ordinarily interdict and shoot down a hyjacked plane if necessary contrary to what some experts say here. What is interesting about all this plane stuff is:

a]  4 planes were hyjacked, all from Logan airport. Logan airport apparently does not have security cameras like your neighborhood 7-11, because there are no pictures of the hyjackers, nor are they listed on flight manifest.

b] Boeing 767 series have never been hyjacked before, apparently the astute hyjackers could fly these, Koran being a substitute for training, and opted not to hyjack the much larger building destroying 747. Several of these hyjackers are said to be alive and working..an easy enough proposition to check out.

c] 4 hyjacked planes from the same airport fly around for about an hour off flight plans and are not challenged at all.

d] Of the 4 planes hyjacked not one, according to SOP, activated a code 7300 (or is it 7500) which is the "we've been hyjacked code" and takes ONE second to do...not one did this.

e] Yet lengthy cell phone calls form the planes are made, a very dubious if impossible feat in 2001.

f] Veteran Flight crews apparently do not turn their planes upside down and are easily murdered with box cutters and removed from seats and no All American rush to seize back the planes occurs, flight doors on 767 are normally closed...the PA flight said to be the exception.

g] 4 planes crash that day and the sum total of all debris recovered is less than 1/2 plane.

h] 4 Super structure tail sections are not recovered containing their flight data recorders (FDR) FDR's record info at 8x per second, very hard to makeup, but no FDR are recovered...FDRs are designed to take 3000G's and 2000 degrees farhenheit...none are recovered or released.
 
i]  As would be required in court, no SSN or part ID references are ever made to prove or verify the planes involved with the attack.

j] 2 planes remain on FAA rosters against strict rules to remove them within 24 hours of crashing, their tail numbers being seen around the country.

k] Condi Rice and Colin Powell make distinct and concise statements to media that a detailed and precise study of the days event will occur and be released shortly so that we learn what went wrong and how to prevent in the future.  Not a bad idea in anybody's view, except the mass media never followed up on these statements and proclaimations, and just forgot about it altogether and not in character for journalist...errr real journalists.  Instead we are all told to believe, that's right BELIEVE the events and official story without any background or substitive report or analysis. A national hate campaign gets underway as mass reasoning faculties are switched off, and citizens are cultured to attack other citizens asking some real questions.

I'd say 4 planes weren't the only thing hyjacked that day.  (BTW...all the above points, and many many more are made in qui tami cases in the Federal Courts right now)

...TM7   

TM7,
I can educate you one one point you made....  Before 9/11, I know that NWA pilots were told to do whatever the hijackers wanted and not to resist.  Before 9/11, how many pilots were killed during hijackings?  That's why it worked...most people thought they were probably going to spend a few days in Cuba, or something.  If they tried the same thing again, the hijackers wouldn't have a chance; even if it was a plane full of blue haired old ladies.  It worked because no one ever tried something like that before, and will never work again.  That's why banning knives was about the dumbest thing that the government could have done.  Tougher for passengers to protect themselves.

Jim

[powderman]

The way to stop hijackings is to issue every passenger a sgl shot pistol, and it must be turned back in when leaving the plane. POWDERMAN. 

[DalesCarpentry]

The way to stop hijackings is to issue every passenger a sgl shot pistol, and it must be turned back in when leaving the plane. POWDERMAN. 

I say give everyone that boards the plane a full auto weapon. This makes the playing field equal for everyone on the plane. The more I think about it maybe it should be a full auto rubber bullet type weapon. This way they don't shoot through the exterior of the plane. If you get a couple hundred passangers shooting at a few terrorists with rubber bullets it will still kill them and the plane could land safely. The other thing they could do would be to release a gas into the passanger compartment that would just put everyone to sleep. They could sort it out on the ground when they wake up. Dale

[gypsyman]

More BS. Said it before, say it again. The plane's that were scrambled to intersect the fourth plane, were taking off from Selfridge Air Force base, north of Detroit. A friend of mine, who is an air traffic controller at a Cleveland airport, was working that day. Seen the whole thing on radar, and NO, that plane wasn't shot down. Plane's from Selfridge weren't even in the air till after the crash. You have to remember, this is an AIR National Guard base. Pilots probably weren't at the base when the call came in. National Guard pilots have regular jobs, maybe at the airport, maybe not. Their not like active duty pilots, stationed at the base 24/7.   gypsyman

[magooch]

TM7, it must be convenient to blame all of our troubles on the Iraq War, but I wonder if it has slipped your notice that we haven't suffered another 9/11 style attack.  And that, after all was at least part of the rationale for the war in the first place.  If the war also killed a million sand niggers along the way--who the hell cares?

[billy_56081]

I still want these "credible" sources to be named.

And TM7 I for one don not take anything you say with any credibility after your talking about civilian airliners using IFF.

[lrs]

I still want these "credible" sources to be named.

And TM7 I for one don not take anything you say with any credibility after your talking about civilian airliners using IFF.

You can add me to the list.  I almost cringe every time I see this joker's name.

[stimpylu32]

It may just be me but the whole day of 9-11 stinks to high heaven , will we know for sure what all happened that day ? -- NEVER 

Do I think that a plain hit the Pentagon ? NO .

Do I think the plain in Pa. was shot down ? YES .

Do I think we will ever get anyone in the US Government to give us the truth ? NO

Do I think that the damage done to the twin towers was done by the planes alone ? NO

Some may call me a nutball , but I just do not trust the government to be honest with the American people if it would in some way affect their own agenda . When I hear things like I'm form the Government and here to help -- That just scares the hell out of me .

Richard

[rex6666]

MAN-O-MAN
No wings, no tail sections, no black boxes, no planes hit the towers(what were the people on the ground seeing) I am almost afraid to ask What hit the pentagon and towers?
I have heard it said that it was impossible to fly this plane into the pentagon at this angle
WHO HAS TRIED IT? where are all these people that see these things, what are the names of the people that know all this crap. Where are these terrorist now, what 7-11 are they working in.

[beemanbeme]

Richard, TM7 has a tinfoil hat in just your size.  One of the last know words coming from the United aircraft was from a male passenger talking to his wife on a cell phone and he said: "I'll call you back, we're gonna try something."  That is a fact!  Not a "creditable witness", not a rumour, not a conspiracy, but a fact.  
Again to apply a little, gasp, shudder, simple logic, do you not think that every radio frequency known to man was not being monitored?  How do you think the news media often shows up at disaster sites before the police, firemen, medics or whomever?  If not them, some old codger sitting up a holler somewhere playing with his shortwave radio? BUT NO ONE HAS COME FORWARD. NOT EVEN SOME KOOK WITH A TINFOIL HAT. Or perhaps, did the Wing Commander in DETROIT whisper to the fighter pilots before they left "we haven't the slightest idea of what is going on down there but you guys go down there, maintaining radio silence all the way,and blow that sucker, with 200 American civilians on board, right out of the sky."  At no time did a fighter pilot call in and say "there appears to be some guy with a towel around his head driving. Don't know if the Captain hurt his head or it's a, gasp, shudder Muslim."  To which the Wing Commander replied, "Makes no difference, it's worth 200 Christian Americans to take out 1 Muslim. Punch his ticket for his last ride."  

Incidentally, going back to the Cuban hijacking days.  The airlines have had a strict policy of total compliance with hijackers.  If someone sticks their finger in their pocket and sez, "I've got a gun, knife, bomb, etc", the scene is played from a position of total creditability downward rather than the reverse.  The subject of armed pilots has been broached several times and ALPA (Air Line Pilot Assoc--union) has been adamant that they are pilots not policemen.  So the terrorist, or any hijacker for that matter, were only too aware that they were going against a group of people (pilots and cabin staff) charged with total compliance.

Now then, we have beat this dead horse so long in another thread that GB got on our butts. So's I'm outta here. (In my heart of hearts, I know the PA plane was shot down by Sylvester Stalone with a rag tied around his head, shooting a .45 calibre model 1911 (the special model that never has to be reloaded) from the window of a piper cub cruising @ 120mph as the United flight thundered by him @450mph.  He precisely shot off one of the engines to fall in the lake and the resulting torque caused the aircraft to disentergrate as if hit by an air to air missile. Later, when asked about this shooting feat, he admitted that he was aiming at the hydraulic lines but got lucky.)

[crustaceous]

It's well known that one camera survived the Pennsylvania crash. This photo lends credence to the numerous conspiracy theories.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.yesalbum.com/v001/unkletom45044/706/airplane_ufo_kids.gif&imgrefurl=http://asininenews.blogspot.com/2007/06/ufo-seen-from-plane.html&h=300&w=400&sz=62&tbnid=3H9ASzXAu4sJ::&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpicture%2Bof%2Balien%2Band%2Bairplane&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=2&ct=image&cd=1

[billy_56081]

Well Crustacious, you at least linked to a source.

I am still waiting for the names of these "credible" witnesses.

[Graybeard]

I don't for one minute believe we'll ever know the full truth of what happened that day. I'm one who tends to disbelieve most everything the government puts out as the "official story" of any event. It's just not in their best interest to be truthful for the most part.

I watched the scenes as the two planes hit the towers and I do accept that two planes hit two towers. Now whether those two planes were in fact the specific two we're told they were and whether they did in fact have real passengers on them and whether they were or were not piloted by muzlims I dunno.

I do more or less at least accept that for some strange and unaccountable reason those two buildings came down more or less as a result of the planes and resulting fires. I cannot account for the sounds of explosions heard and do not know whether to believe some charges were prepositioned by someone prior to the event to aid in them going down. I do not however believe they fell as in a control demolition as my eyes tell me the bulidings fell top down not as they do in controlled demolitions beginning at the ground. I've watched the replays of the towers falling too many times trying to see anything that looked like a controlled demolition collapse and I just do not see it.

Tower seven I dunno about. It had many diesel powered generators inside and many huge diesel tanks from what I've read and those made for some serious fire and perhaps even account for some of the explosions heard. I tend to accept the official story of the fires being the cause of this one coming down but there is a lot of reason to doubt it so sure can't argue with those who do. Clearly there were explosions in #7. Perhaps they were those fuel tanks known to be in there going off from the heat and perhaps they did in the final analysis result in the fall of that one.

I will say tho that it was damed convenient for the new building onwers that this happened to save them billions of dollars they were otherwise going to have to spend. Those kinda coincidences always make me scratch my head and wonder.

As to the plane in PA I just don't accept ANY of the official version there. That plane was NOT intact when it impacted the ground and that's obvious to anyone with eyes open. It exploded in the air there is no other possible explanation for the debris field and the hole it made in the ground. Who did it I dunno but someone blew that one up in the air. I believe the Air Force did.

The Pentagon wow that one is the worst of the lot. It just did not in my opintion happen even remotedly as the official story says. I do not even believe a plane hit the building at all. I think it was a missile. Who's missile? Now that is a good question isn't it? Maybe ours that tried and missed knocking down a plane. Maybe but if so where the heck did the plane it was shot at go? Nope I think we the US Government intentionally fired a missle at the pentagon and it hit precisely where it needed to hit to destroy some very embarrassing papers that were there. Papers the folks in charge desperately needed to go away in a manner that no one would question.

The evidence one way or another is in the hands of the federal folks to proof or disproof it was a plane not a missle but they won't release anything. This one stinks to high heaven and I have no doubt personally that the US Government intentionall with malice and fore thought fired a missle into the pentagon fully aware of the consequences just to destroy those very embarrassing papers that had to go in a manner the citizens would accept.

That one event in my mind is the entire reason for the entire string of events that day. They towers were targets merely because they had been once before and because the folks who fund the crooks in office needed a bit of help from their friends in government to save them the billions they were gonna hafta spend to clean up or tear down those buildings.

What the hell happen in PA and what part did it play in the entire day's events? I got no clue and really no theory on it. It just plain doesn't fit into the rest of the day's events as I see it. Maybe it was just a way to help support the terrorist theory or to take away some of the eyes that otherwise would have been focused on the pentagon.

Two things in my opinion created the events of that day. The folks running the government needed those papers in the pentago to go away in a manner that no one would question and the folks who pay the crooked politicians needed those towers leveled at no expense to themselves to prevent the expenditure of billions to clean them up or remove them properly. To make those two things happen those thousands of Americans lost their lives and we got the limitations on our freedoms that followed also a very much planned part of the entire sequence of events.

I've been saying for many years that this is coming and that one day it will be worse here in the US than it ever was in Russia at the height of the communist power. That day is very near now. It will happen in this decade.

That is what I believe and I don't have one shred of evidence to back it up.

[victorcharlie]

I still want these "credible" sources to be named.

And TM7 I for one don not take anything you say with any credibility after your talking about civilian airliners using IFF.

Back in the 1970's, while in the army, I worked on components of the Improved Hawk missile system.  One of the components I was trained to repair was the Identification Friend or Foe Radar, or IFF.

All military, and all commercial planes are required to have it.

I have personally viewed many, many, civilian airliners respond to an IFF challenge.

[GrampaMike]

I am trying not to be angry.  I do not know about the Towers or PA, but...
I work at the Pentagon and I was there.  A PLANE HIT the Pentagon.

[DalesCarpentry]

GB I respect your perspective on what happened that day. I have to say if I were to believe in even half of what you think may or may not happened on that day, that would change my whole out look of our Government and country. I just happen to think and believe what happened that day is what has been reported. I followed things very closely that day and have looked over all the footage from pretty much everything out there. I really to my core believe what we saw unfold that day really happened in the way it was presented. There is no conspiracy here. Things are just as they seem to be. Dale

[billy_56081]

I still want these "credible" sources to be named.

And TM7 I for one don not take anything you say with any credibility after your talking about civilian airliners using IFF.

Back in the 1970's, while in the army, I worked on components of the Improved Hawk missile system.  One of the components I was trained to repair was the Identification Friend or Foe Radar, or IFF.

All military, and all commercial planes are required to have it.

I have personally viewed many, many, civilian airliners respond to an IFF challenge.

Victorcharlie what was your MOS and where were  you stationed?

[beemanbeme]

I'm with GrandpaMike.  It's hard to read some of this and not get mad.  So I'll just say this and then I have no more to say about this subject: If I thought I lived in a country with a government so bereft of honour, decency, and regard for it's citizens that it would create and orchestrate a scenario to kill over 3000 of it's people in order to distroy some "embarrassing papers", I wouldn't live here.  To even suggest that means that our government is no better than the despots in the middle east, Russia and Africa that would cold blooded kill thousands of their own to test a new nerve gas or over a tribal difference or on a whim. The very idea spits on the grave of every brave, young American that has died trying to help others enjoy what we enjoy here.  The sheer size of the cabal needed to enact such a deed staggers the imagination and the decay has to be so extensive that any salvage of America the Beautiful is beyond consideration. The very idea makes my heart hurt.