Author Topic: You conservatives will never understand.. (Read 4601 times)

BBF · « **Reply #30 on:** August 11, 2008, 04:49:57 AM »

LOL !! Pulling the wool over as many peoples eyes as possible or in our( Canadian) case making their bunkers deeper and more camouflaged so they don't have to answer any embarrassing questions.

rebAL · « **Reply #31 on:** August 11, 2008, 07:12:24 AM »

I'd be wlling to bet Edwards was in the hotel not for an affair (Well maybe that too), but also with a contract and a large check made out to his honey in exchange for not submitting to a blood test. (Scumbag lawyer that he is)

MGMorden · « **Reply #32 on:** August 11, 2008, 09:16:46 AM »

Quote from: 45-70 Govt. on August 10, 2008, 05:55:03 AM

DNA testing will prove who the sperm donor is, otherwise.......really who cares??!

Wiser words never spoken. If he's the father of this lady's child then he owes child support, but beyond that I truly couldn't care less who he sleeps with or why. As said, the majority of the guys in DC are having affairs anyways, regardless of party affiliation (and you'll find that pretty common amongst almost any group of richer men - money attracts women and guys with money like to have the finer things in life), so why single out Edwards? Though he didn't have my vote anyways, I'll still vote based on how I perceive they will handle the Presidency (or the Vice Presidency as the case may be), and not based on their personal life. A lot of good businessmen are lousy cheating husbands - the same can be true of any job, including the Presidency.

TribReady · « **Reply #33 on:** August 11, 2008, 09:31:11 AM »

MGM, I see your point in separating the job from personal activity, however:

The cheating business man, cheats on his wife, and more than likely, also in his business dealings. That's the point I think. Although we "know" all politicians lie, when Edwards pulls the "finger pointing Clinton" technique of denial even in the face of the truth, that's when all credibility is lost. At some point, character has to count. SHOULDN'T WE EXPECT MORE FROM A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (or VP or Senator, whatever)
I'm sick of hearing "Well, everyone does it" as an excuse for our leadership.

I know my thoughts seem naive to most, but shouldn't we be expecting of a higher standard of conduct, both personal and "on the job" ?

MGMorden · « **Reply #34 on:** August 11, 2008, 10:23:27 AM »

I see your point also, but I'm typically a results driven person. If I invest in a company, then I care about my dividends. A moral man who is faithful to his wife and gets me $0.50 on the share per year is not worth it compared to a cheating, annoying, arrogant scumbag who can get me $3 per share per year. In that case, my goal is not to be friends with the man anyways: our relationship is business and so all I care about is business.

For me, the Presidency is much the same. The stakes are no longer money, but rather my freedoms and the health of my country. Still though, I have no desire to be friends with the president or get to know him on a personal level (nor could I if I wanted to

). All that matters to me is results. Is he going to preserve the freedoms that I currently enjoy, fight to attain the ones that I am missing, and generally keep the economy and quality of life here in the country healthy? If so, then I am happy with him, regardless of his personal life. It's not that it's an excuse because everybody does it, or about expecting less. It's that I generally just don't see the relevance of the issue with regards to his position. It'd be like me refusing to eat at a restaurant because the chef drives a Ford and I'm a Chevy man. Sure we disagree on 1 issue(that being our preference in vehicle make), but that is completely unrelated to his skills as a chef so I don't even consider it a valid point when talking about whether to patronize his restaurant.

To sum it up: I'd rather have an a**hole in the office who knows what he's doing than an truly nice fella who's clueless. Now in Edwards I don't think he knows what he's doing anyways, but I'm just pointing out the general irrelevance in the debate

.

TribReady · « **Reply #35 on:** August 11, 2008, 10:42:56 AM »

Good response. I see your point. I will, though, just agree to disagree abit as far as the presidency is concerned. I will always hold that character does matter in that position. That being said, I agree that political positions are still the most crucial thing when voting.

I feel that this "conversation" must end now, though. I no longer can continue this discussion with a guy who drives a Chevy

MGMorden · « **Reply #36 on:** August 11, 2008, 10:57:08 AM »

Quote from: TribReady on August 11, 2008, 10:42:56 AM

I feel that this "conversation" must end now, though. I no longer can continue this discussion with a guy who drives a Chevy

Actually, that was just an example. I drive a Hyundai

. Before that though I drove a Ford Mustang, a Chevy Camaro, and a Ford Ranger (in that order going backwards through time), so I'm all over the map

.

I have been looking at getting a truck again though (for the last 4-5 years I've been either borrowing my dad or brother's truck to go hunting, or driving the car and calling them on the cell if I make a kill to come help haul it back

), and another Ranger is looking pretty tempting

.

TribReady · « **Reply #37 on:** August 11, 2008, 11:12:54 AM »

Actually, Rangers are really well priced right now according to a buddy of mine that owns a small dealership. He was saying, at the last wholesale auction he was at, that 01-03 or so Rangers were going around $2000 wholesale. My buddy usually adds on about 15% when we purchase this way, so very affordable.
GEtting off topic here, but if you can find a small dealer that can go to an auction and look for you. Give them what you want and a top price. They can get listings of what's there and then it's just a matter of getting lucky with a low $$
I tried to give up my truck about 6 months ago....just couldn't do it.

ironglow · « **Reply #38 on:** August 11, 2008, 10:59:03 PM »

I can see MG's point..especially if one is results oriented, but selecting a C in C is not the same in my estimation as selecting a CEO.
With a corporation the bottom line (money) pretty well dictates what the corporation should do, that is why I am continually amazed when
someone expects a corp to do altruistic, charitable deeds and when they don't, complain "it's all about money !". well..Duh..

An American commander in Chief has a different job. He not only must make decisions that are best economically for the US, but
he must also make decisions that uphold the image of the nation as well as look after those who have little influence and even
less power. He must continually strive to "do the right thing", rather than just the "most profitable thing"..

Personally, I don't care if Edwards breeds every promiscous woman in his entourage..that's his/her own problem to answer for.

....But I do believe that if a man's wife cannot trust him to be honest and faithful to her..the one he swore before God to be
faithful to...how can the millions of citizens, most all of whom he doesn't even know,believe that he will honor the promises he
made on the Bible while being sworn in ?

I believe CHARACTER is the MOST important trait for any prospective C in C. Why ?..He doesn't have to be the world's best economist,
military strategist, medical doctor, diplomat, attorney general, biologist, surgeon general, aeronautics & space scientist, business consultant or
conservationist around..he already has those to advise him.. at his beck and call !

What the President needs is the CHARACTER to take all advice offered by these experts in the field and do what is BEST, as opposed to
what is expedient...for the country, people and Constitution..

lrs · « **Reply #39 on:** August 12, 2008, 05:59:18 AM »

Precisely.

Sourdough · « **Reply #40 on:** August 12, 2008, 11:44:50 AM »

Hay what they do in their private life is no ones business but theirs. Unfortunately the poparatzi think it is big business so their every move is scrutinized. Too bad too.

Look at our founding fathers, and others. Ben Franklin, never married but fathered a son who became a Torrie. Thomas Jefferson, fathered many kids after his wife died. Andrew Jackson, had prostitutes living in the White House, so he did not have to go far. JFK had affairs, so what. None of our business.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #41 on:** August 12, 2008, 06:01:13 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on August 11, 2008, 10:59:03 PM

....But I do believe that if a man's wife cannot trust him to be honest and faithful to her..the one he swore before God to be
faithful to...how can the millions of citizens, most all of whom he doesn't even know,believe that he will honor the promises he
made on the Bible while being sworn in ?

I believe CHARACTER is the MOST important trait for any prospective C in C. Why ?..He doesn't have to be the world's best economist,
military strategist, medical doctor, diplomat, attorney general, biologist, surgeon general, aeronautics & space scientist, business consultant or
conservationist around..he already has those to advise him.. at his beck and call !

What the President needs is the CHARACTER to take all advice offered by these experts in the field and do what is BEST, as opposed to
what is expedient...for the country, people and Constitution..

Good to hear that you are voting for Obama!!!!

We all know that John Sidney McCain III cheated on his first wife....

Jim

ironglow · « **Reply #42 on:** August 13, 2008, 01:34:57 PM »

WE don't "all know" about McCain's personal life..although there was definitely a divorce..the "cheating' etc is found mostly on radical left blogs (like the "Daily Kos")
who routinely lie so much they won't be believed by most honest folk..even if they do happen to swerve into the truth !

Vote for BHO ? You HAVE to be joking..we already know where he stands..from his own words !

1) Doesn't like folks that "cling to their guns and Bibles"..Don't know what Rev Wright's church uses for a text book..the Communist Manifesto, perhaps ?

2) Doesn't like his mother's race..

3) If things political turn sour, he "will side with the Muslims"

4) In her 40 odd years of life in America..she had never before this year, been proud of her country. Evidently not when we saved Grenada from going Communist,
when we helped so many people around the world recover from earthquakes and tsunamis, when we send doctors to help with plagues raging in Africa, or when
we bring crippled and deformed, poverty stricken children from around the world get life saving surgery..etc..etc..ad nauseum..

No..only proud when many squealing, deluded Americans are ready to turn their country over to a socialist/Marxist regime..

If it is true about McCain as you said..he should be ashamed ..but how much worse he would be if he were to enact things that reflect Obama's already stated objectives !

Dee · « **Reply #43 on:** August 13, 2008, 02:06:53 PM »

Do you mean such things such as McCain-Feingold? Or amnesty for illegal aliens, or no drilling in Anwar, and only LIMITED DRILLING off shore, or a 73% voting record AGAINST the 2nd Amendment?

ironglow · « **Reply #44 on:** August 13, 2008, 02:09:14 PM »

Dee;
Not half what I expect B Hussein Obama to do, should he gather up the reins..better a class 3 conservative than a class 1 Marxist !

Dee · « **Reply #45 on:** August 13, 2008, 02:18:49 PM »

ironglow we agree on much and disagree on a little. HOWEVER, I do not consider McCain a class three Conservative. I consider him a Class A LIBERAL.
He is like Obama, in many ways in that he will change his point of view to get the vote. McCain's voting record speaks for itself. Given the presidents ACTUAL POWERS, I don't believe we will be better or worse with either. They to me, are much the same. There is no lessor of two evils in these two. They are the same, which is to say, that they are both a THREAT to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Both have proved so in their voting records, with the nod going to McCain as proving it the "most" times, over a "longer period" of time.

ironglow · « **Reply #46 on:** August 13, 2008, 02:24:02 PM »

Dee;
I agree, neither one is a bargain for the American people..but obama can probably do more damage in a shorter time, because he is likely to have a Congress full of lemmings..all headed his direction..

Perhaps procrastination by election will hold us long enough to get a Real Pres & Congress back in place..if were are not too much in shambles by 2012..

"Even so, Lord come quickly !"

Dee · « **Reply #47 on:** August 13, 2008, 02:32:32 PM »

Unfortunately ironglow, "procrastination by election" is precisely why we're STUCK with the type of candidates we have now. The trend has, and will continue to be, to get worse and worse in the quality. That is what this type of voting method fosters. It can foster nothing else, and to think otherwise, is WISHFUL or DELUSIONAL thinking, depending on how one looks at it.

nomosendero · « **Reply #48 on:** August 13, 2008, 04:46:19 PM »

Quote from: Dee on August 13, 2008, 02:32:32 PM

Unfortunately ironglow, "procrastination by election" is precisely why we're STUCK with the type of candidates we have now. The trend has, and will continue to be, to get worse and worse in the quality. That is what this type of voting method fosters. It can foster nothing else, and to think otherwise, is WISHFUL or DELUSIONAL thinking, depending on how one looks at it.

Sadly, there is alot of truth to that one. This explains why in each election cycle both main party choices tend to drop down a notch or 2 in quality.
The Demoncrap is a worthless POS & the Rep. is a dud, about as good as a Dem would have been 15-20 years before. It is an exteme situation for sure. Do you want to take a hit from Mike Tyson or do you want to get hit by a car? Well, you reason that you will take the Tyson hit because you may recover from that. But each time the Tyson hit gets harder & soon you may not be able to get up, the hits have a cumlative efdfect. I am not sure how many more hits we can take, but I have zero doubt that Obama can wipe us out like a Buick.

Dee · « **Reply #49 on:** August 14, 2008, 02:45:10 AM »

An interesting analogy to say the least. I believe I will stay out of the ring with Tyson, and will walk on the side walk, instead of in the middle of the street where Buicks are supposed to stay.
But while we are giving interesting analogies here is another, although much older and WISER than the one you used. In fact, I wish I had said it, instead of just repeating it.

If you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

What would seem apparent is that whom ever the original architect of this VERY OLD cliche was, is that they possessed TIMELESS WISDOM, as it is true even today. The difference of those then, and us now, is that we as a nation are SQUEAMISH about paying the dues for bad voting habits.
I believe that both the dogs in this discussion have an uncommonly large amount of fleas per dog. As I have been DIPPED ENOUGH to get rid of my flea infestation, I will no longer lay down with these dogs.
There are consequences to bad voting habits, and until the nation as a whole is willing to not only pay them, AND repent by changing, then nothing will change.
Being hit by a Buick is not necessarily fatal, and a lot of pain is evidence that one is still alive, with a LESSON LEARNED THE HARD WAY. But it is a lesson learned. I am not AFRAID of either of these two losers, and will not vote out of fear of one or the other. Until a stand is made, a stand, OR CHANGE, will not occur.
I will once again refer to my signature at the bottom of all my posts, as I did say that, and it IS true. Win or lose, you still have chosen the company of winners based on what is right, not fear. Folks whom chose right over wrong, just make better company, regardless of the out come.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #50 on:** August 14, 2008, 06:54:47 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on August 13, 2008, 01:34:57 PM

WE don't "all know" about McCain's personal life..although there was definitely a divorce..the "cheating' etc is found mostly on radical left blogs (like the "Daily Kos")
who routinely lie so much they won't be believed by most honest folk..even if they do happen to swerve into the truth !

So...now you are saying CHARACTER isn't that big of a deal for Presidents??? ....whatever.

Jim

Cabin4 · « **Reply #51 on:** August 14, 2008, 07:20:20 PM »

McCain while still legally married was estranged from his wife. I'm not condoning cheating but if a hisband and wife are essentially separated or estranged, the legal marriage becomes meaningless.

In the case of Edwards, the typical conniving liberal communist, his poor wife is dying of cancer, and the $400 a hair cut slime ball is parading around the country trying to be the next president while screwing some 2-bit wanna be movie maker. And, funneling campaign money to her.... Leave it to the Liberals. They out to put this slime ball in the same place as that homosexual congessman Barrny Frank who was hailed as a hero on the congressional floor because his boy friend was running a prostitution ring out of Frank's owm home. He claimed he knew nothing about it.... yea right.

There should be a federal probe into Edwards campaign finances.

When it comes to cheating and slime, the Liberals have just about cornered the market.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #52 on:** August 14, 2008, 07:53:40 PM »

Quote from: cabin4 on August 14, 2008, 07:20:20 PM

McCain while still legally married was estranged from his wife. I'm not condoning cheating but if a hisband and wife are essentially separated or estranged, the legal marriage becomes meaningless.

In the case of Edwards, the typical conniving liberal communist, his poor wife is dying of cancer, and the $400 a hair cut slime ball is parading around the country trying to be the next president while screwing some 2-bit wanna be movie maker. And, funneling campaign money to her.... Leave it to the Liberals. They out to put this slime ball in the same place as that homosexual congessman Barrny Frank who was hailed as a hero on the congressional floor because his boy friend was running a prostitution ring out of Frank's owm home. He claimed he knew nothing about it.... yea right.

There should be a federal probe into Edwards campaign finances.

When it comes to cheating and slime, the Liberals have just about cornered the market.

....really? I thought Gingrich had affairs when married to his first AND second wife...at least that is what he admitted. Oh ya, according to Carol McCain, Sidney started to cheat on her almost immediately upon returning from Vietnam. But hey, why not, she was kinda' disfigured from a car accident. Then there is Mr. Conservative Bob Barr, who paid for his wife's abortion and then cheated on her. Liberals cornered the market, me thinks you have blind loyalty. Stand back and open your eyes and you will see they ARE ALL SLEAZY.

Jim

ironglow · « **Reply #53 on:** August 14, 2008, 11:13:10 PM »

Dakota;
I am not here to defend McCain's parting with his first wife, could have been the fault of either one..or both. May well have been a problem he brought back with him.
I don't know if I would be the same man after 5 years of abuse and torture !

...But speaking of character;

1) One of the two spent 20 years in a church that preaches "love Africa over the America", the other spent years risking his life, serving America. Even enduring
years of torture because he wouldn't abandon the US "Code of Conduct".

2) One honors the Flag he fought for when the national anthem is played; the other...well, you've seen it.....

3) One has a past of being a "social activist" in the streets..the other a military activist in the sky, and in the "Hanoi Hilton".

4) One's wife has ALWAYS been proud of her country. Have you rerad Michelle Obama's Princeton thesis ? It's on line, just search for it !

5) One had enough military and strategic acumen to know the "surge" would work if activated, the other still doesn't "get it".

6) One has enough a sense of economics to know we must use our own oil in a comprehensive program, while the other
bows to the demands of The enviro-whackos, ACLU, George Soros and who knows what other "campaign contributors" ?

7) One has roots deeply embedded in America, being of a multigenerational American military family; the other ..by his own words
holds a strong empathy to Africa and claims that if times get tough..he'll throw in with the Muslims !

( Will he faithfully prosecute the War on Terror ? ...Guess we won't know until if or when he is in charge !)

In previous endeavors, one has character enough to fight and endure torture so ALL Americans can ejoy the fruits of freedom;
the other raised havoc in the streets of Chicago, hoping to get SOME Americans 40 acres and a mule..or whatever their reparational demands were.

Does this offer a clue as to the character differences between the two ?

While I approve of SOME of McCain's views..I can't see where any of Obama's "changes" are worth "a bucket of warm spit" ! (quoting John Nance Garner)

ironglow · « **Reply #54 on:** August 15, 2008, 03:34:07 AM »

TM;
I figured you wouldn't vote, since Vladimir Putin (Vlad the Impaler) nor Osama Bin Laden are running !

magooch · « **Reply #55 on:** August 15, 2008, 03:48:05 AM »

Ironglow--but you forget that Osama Hussein Obama is running and I'm pretty sure that TM and the Elkslayer are leaning his direction.

BBF · « **Reply #56 on:** August 15, 2008, 04:39:41 AM »

Seems that Bilary chances are NOT all gone The Dems are a hilarious bunch

Cabin4 · « **Reply #57 on:** August 15, 2008, 05:02:38 AM »

Obama as president along with a democrate controlled congress & senate, will bring the most wide sweeping left wing socialist liberal agenda that our country will have ever seen. We will never be able to turn back and our country will forever have changed. If anyone thinks its bad today, just wait till this guy gets in office. The majority of our young people love him and what he is and does will be forever embedded in their minds and sub conscious. We will go the way of England, France. Germany and we will have here exactly what they have their. A pandering nanny state full of winning cry babies wanting for the government to do more and more. Once the government implements a social program, it can never be turned off. That's why our country continues to lean left, left and more left all the time. These programs become political weapons during campaigns and conservatives can never beat the liberals on social program politics. Americans by in large love free givaways and the liberlas love to tax and give.

lrs · « **Reply #58 on:** August 15, 2008, 07:01:21 AM »

Quote from: cabin4 on August 15, 2008, 05:02:38 AM

Obama as president along with a democrate controlled congress & senate, will bring the most wide sweeping left wing socialist liberal agenda that our country will have ever seen. We will never be able to turn back and our country will forever have changed. If anyone thinks its bad today, just wait till this guy gets in office. The majority of our young people love him and what he is and does will be forever embedded in their minds and sub conscious. We will go the way of England, France. Germany and we will have here exactly what they have their. A pandering nanny state full of winning cry babies wanting for the government to do more and more. Once the government implements a social program, it can never be turned off. That's why our country continues to lean left, left and more left all the time. These programs become political weapons during campaigns and conservatives can never beat the liberals on social program politics. Americans by in large love free givaways and the liberlas love to tax and give.

Maybe you are right, this is NOT the America I grew up in. I'd like to say we are not England, France, and Germany, but I'm not sure.
40 years ago, it was unthinkable that we would regress into what we have become., but 2 generations of Americans have been brainwashed by a socialist/liberal media, hollywood, and indoctrination from public schools and liberal colleges.
Just as you describe, we have become "A pandering nanny state full of winning cry babies wanting for the government to do more and more."
It's just shamefull.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #59 on:** August 15, 2008, 07:56:25 AM »

Irs,

Shamefull it is, no doubt. The American spirit that made this a great country is being eroded every day by the unwashed masses of people that believe government is the solution to all their personal concerns and troubles. Inch by inch, day by day, we give up our freedoms via tax dollars so that Washington, state and local government is forced to make decisions for us. Taxes are the enabling means by which government intrudes into our lives. Without money/funding, the government can't intrude in our lives. Its simply like buying a service which tax dollars are the payment.

When the federal income tax was put in place, they said it would never exceed 1% of our income. We all know what's happened here. If there was a way to roll this back, it would force the government to shrink and become less intrusive in our lives. They simply would not have the funding to pay for the services. Unfortunately, I fear this can never happen. We have created such a monster entitlement system that people have become forced dependant on the government and too many people have become brainwashed in believing this IS the roll of government instead of their own personal responsibility.This plays perfect with the Liberal political strategy, they always win on free givaways.

While I read many posts on these forum from conservatives that corp America is not paying its far share of tax, I cringe. The issue to me is simple, its not that corp America is not paying its far share, its that the government just takes to much from people. No one, corporation included should have to pay the rates we pay. Shut the dam tax spigot off and we would see the government shrink.

There's no where else to go though and I bet when we are all here dead, this country will not resemble anything of its former self.