Bore Sighting A Muzzleloading Cannon

[seacoastartillery]

     Seeing Terry's recent thread called "Tactical Napoleon" reminded us that we don't believe that anybody has explained their method of bore sighting a muzzleloading cannon.  It's not that hard to do and we used the same method successfully for about 4 years that cost us only about $15.00, the price of one of these small size, Mini-Mag flashlights.

     Let's say you want to be on target at 75 yards with your 1" bore cannon.  Just follow these simple steps and your first shots should be on the paper.

1)   Make sure your cannon is unloaded, then pop a Minimag flashlight which has been turned on down to the bottom of the bore.

2)   As you place the cannon in an area of shadow, send a friend out to 75 yards with a regular bullseye target with a center peep hole.

3)   Have the friend walk to the left, then the right looking thru the peep hole and tell you when the light eminating from the muzzle is most bright.  Tell him to stay there.

4)   Repeat this procedure for elevation. 

5)   Adjust your cannon sights to coincide with the center of the bullseye.

      That's it!  Your first shots should be on the paper and will probably be low, because we have made no adjustment of the sights to compensate for the ball's drop at 75 yards.  You should, however, be able to avoid the infuriating, "By guess and by golly" method of getting on target.  You can use this method with Terry's scope sight or iron sights, either on a mount like he built or attached to the gun.

     There probably are other methods to accomplish this task, like the bore sight laser that we finally bought, but none is as cheap, and yet works as well as the concentrated flashlight beam and friend with target.

     Anybody with a different method, please post it here so everyone can learn how you do it.

Regards,

Tracy and Mike

[KABAR2]

An interesting way of doing it but seems allot of effort for the return.
How about machining a bore plug & mounting a Laser in the center?
Then all you need to do is get it centered on target.

[Double D]

To simply a simple procedure....Bore sighting

If your gun does not have a large front muzzle flare , you will need to make a sighting disc.  Make a disc the same diameter as the cascable.  In the center of the disc attach a rod, sliding fit  bore diameter and about 1/4 bore depth long.  Slide this in the bore and use the aiming method described in the post above.

If I remember correctly, a technique  similair to this is described in Switliks book.

Me, as soon as I can,  I am going to build one of these sighting frames with one of those 20 mw green lasers.  My Laser guy says the 20 mw green laser can be seen on target in sunlight 100 yards plus and it's spot of about 2 inch diameter is has enough resolution for precision shooting. He says they are getting very good use of this setup in the field.  He talks just like I am writing this..
 

[Cannoneer]

   Whenever I fired a miniature cannon in the past if we fired at anything at all it would be a tree trunk, can, jug, etc. but when I saw DD's posts on his South African cannon shoots I got inspired and decided to try a little target shooting. This is a .50 cal. stainless naval gun, I tried to follow DD's tutorials on sighting and we were firing half inch ball bearings with no patch. Our targets were out at a measley 25 yards and they were bright orange cardboard circles 9'' diameter (we use these for goofing around with pistol quick draw and speed firing). All I have to say is that it looks a lot easier than it really is, I got one ball on the target, that was the first shot and I'm sure it was only dumb luck because after that I couldn't hit a moose that filled my field of vision. The one photo is of my cousin trying his luck, he did better than me, he got two on the paper. The problem is that the muzzle ring diam. is just too small as compared with the breech ring. I tried using the first reinforce ring but I guess the sight radius was just too short. I'm going to make some kind of a front sight and give it another try when we get back out to the range. We did a lot better with the .44. Mike and Tracy I know this post isn't really on topic, I was just too lazy to go looking for one of DD's original S-A threads; forgive me.

[Double D]

Boom,

I think I mentioned in another thread that that several of the older guys in SA had a hard time getting down on the ground so they tried shooting off bench and we unsucessful.  The theory then was that the bench was not solid enough.  Think there is also an issue with "Spot weld" or fixed sighting position. When we were laying down on our bellies looking down the barrel we were in a pretty rigid and actually fairly repeatable position---but like any shooting it took practice to get use to the positions.   

I will be moving into the home we bought in a few weeks and I hope to shortly after that start shooting again, espicially my Cairo Gun.  I will be testing some of this stuff on that gun.  My guess is that I will need a sighting disc for the front muzzle as the muzzle swell may be to small.

How do you feel about getting some sort of postal match going?

[seacoastartillery]

     Boom J,   Just send us the address of your absolutely beautiful range and you will quickly be forgiven!  WOW,  NO BURNT GRASS AND CACTUS there, really NICE!!  But, of course, you are correct; it's not as easy as it looks or sounds, but it's not rocket science, either!  Keep trying; you will have lots of fun getting it figured out.  Beautiful pictures too.

     Double D,   We are beginning to get suspicious of your motives here.  You seem far too enamored of the "Green Laser".  Are you sure it will be only 20 mili watts, and not 20 exa watts?  We hope we are wrong, but we are getting the distinct impression that you are going after gophers rather than Cannon Targets.  If you do, remember to shoot from an upwind position so flaming gopher guts don't blow over into your hair!

    KABAR2,   We already have done that, Allen, see the second to last line in our org. post.  It's a little easier, but you have to do your homework and know the distance to the first intersect point of the cannonball and the line-of-sight where you place your laser bore sight target, the second being the firing target distance.  The old flashlight method costs much, much less and only took about 15 minutes to accomplish.

[Double D]

I am enthused about the green laser only because of the source of my info.  In May my laser guy was in the area and showed us some illumination devices, most using  LED's.  Led's are bright to look at, but have been in my experinece less than spectactular in illumination. This guy showed us a new Led light that is sold to public safety organizations.  He said they normally do a demonstration with this light where they illuminate a newspaper from one mile and the guys holding the paper can read it.  Yeah right.

I have Remington 700 VBL .223 with a 12 X Leupold scope.  If you have ever used a scope of this power in low light you know how hard it is to see anything.  There is a beach ball size rock that is covered in bullet strikes located 465 yards from my friends back porch.  We know this is that far away because it has been laser range finded numerous times.  During after hours when ever there are new rifles to test the rock gets shoot at a lot.

Late at night my friend was showing us this new light and flashed the rock.  We all had to try.  Not only was I able to see the rock with the illumination of this LED light I was able hit it repeatedly with the Remington.  We were all impressed. 

So when I asked about lasers and he said use...he didn't say try  this--he said use!  I am going to.  He said that these 20 mw green lasers are being used in the field as precison aiming devices in the daylight.

[Cannoneer]

   Double D, count me in on the postal match but give me a little time to practice or to be more precise to figure out what I'm doing. I'm going to try and rig up a front sight and follow your advice and make a platform to shoot from the ground and I think I'll try patched balls next time to see if that improves accuracy. Are you going to follow the SAMCC rules or come up with new ones?

Tracy and Mike, It's a private range in Grant Park, Illinois and we have three benches, 200 yrd. high power rifle with individual concrete benches that you cant see in the photos, 100 yrd. low power rifle that you can see in the distance and the 50 yrd. pistol that we were firing from. As you can see from the pics, if you go at the right times it is very lonely there.

[Cannoneer]

   First of all, let me emend some things in reply #3; I'm not that arrogant to ever refer to 25 yards as measley when talking about pistol shooting, let alone firing a miniature cannon with no sights. I'm just so used to shooting pistol at this distance that I subconsciously typed it in. We were actually shooting at targets placed at 7 yards, which is used for combat shooting and is the closest target distance at the pistol bench. Also, the orange targets were really 11'' diam. not 9'', all of which make it even worse that we did so poorly.

Now, on our last outing we did place the targets at 25 yards and we actually did a little better than we did at 7 y., I managed to get three balls on the target and most of the other shots at least landed pretty close to the orange on the white backround paper. I was using FFFg and I was experimenting with the load a little, finally settling on 30.30 gr. and still using ball bearings with no patch (I forgot to bring them). Maybe with a few more practice outings I'll be ready for the postal match.

Double D, I'm not sure about shooting from the bench being bad for accuracy but I'm absolutely sure that the distance fron the top of the bench to the ground is not a positive asset. I guess everyone deserves a good laugh at my expense so have fun watching the vid. I had a good chuckle commenting on my cousins panther-like grace and quickness in trying to catch the gun and he had a riot of a time telling me that if I hadn't had my head up in the clouds ( actually he said I had my head up some other object but I will not repeat this vulgarity here) and remembered to clamp down the backstop this never would have happened, to which I replied that he also didn't show a great degree of mental sharpness in not noticing this fact when he lit the fuse. You can tell that I evidently went into shock because I started to film the gravel on the ground. BTW, there is no sound because I haven't figured out this aspect of film making yet but on this video this is probably a good thing. All things considered, we had another great time at the range.

PS., Victor3, that other gun is the Rhodes brass .56 cal., I loaded it with 54.40 gr. of FFg and fired a salute; it makes a nice pop.

[Double D]

Just like shooting any gun you need consistancy. You need to make sure your shooting platform is flat and level and not warped or tilted.  You need to make sure that the gun has all 4 trucks on the ground with equal contact.  It doesn't appear to me that the one gun does that.  Looks like one wheel is off the ground.

When you place the gun on the platform to shoot make sure you place it the on same spot left to right and front to back, everytime.   Unfortunately Navel guns are top heavy and tend to flip.  I just made a soft spot for the gun to land in SA.  My U.S. gun gas has a recoil arrester block and tackle. I don't know how that will affect accuracy. 

Frankly I think your shooting bench is a bit thin for cannon shooting.    Try this,  take a hand full of loose dry dirt and put it on the bench adjacent to your shooting platform.  Spread it out so it is about an 1/8 of an inch thick and about 2-3 inches in diameter . Being careful to not distrub the dirt while loading and shooting firing, fire a few shots.  Check the dirt and see if it hasn't started to separate and sift.  You could also video the dirt and them look at frame by frame and see the bounce, and it will bounce.  You could also set a bunch loose loaded ammo on the bench and bang the bench with your fist and see if the rounds move or bounce. 

Try Fg or FFG. Shoot this thing like a cannon not a pistol.  Reduce the violence of the shot.

As long as the ball bearings are loose fitting you won't get much accuracy.  When you add a patch to the ball bearings you will get them stuck in the bore and never get them out without some serious drilling.  Go buy yourself some of those Hornady swage lead round balls and shoot them.    Trust me when I tell you these things...I'm not making them up..  Okay confession time.  I had a reputation for forgetting to load powder at least once during every match.  I have drilled my fair share of balls out.

By the way of you can't get those two guns to shoot, ship them out to me and and I will get them shooting for you...might take a while...say 15-20 years.

I guess I am going have to write a complete set of details on how to shot and aim these little guns.  Another project after we close on the house. (August 18 we close. August 19th we move every thing from storage in Great Falls to Cut Bank--110 miles.  Gonna take two trips.  Then 23 or the 24th we drive to Chalis Idaho and pick up the Gunsmithing shop--that's a little over 450  miles)  Might be a month or two before I actually get to start on projects.

[Terry C.]

OUCH!

Hope the little gun didn't get dinged too bad.

[GGaskill]

I had a reputation for forgetting to load powder at least once during every match.

Don't worry too much.  Twice last Saturday I forgot to load the golf balls (golf ball mountain howitzer at 91 yards.)  An unimpressive whoosh.  Going to have to do the whole loading drill, I guess.

[seacoastartillery]

     As professional, recoiling-cannon catchers, we can say with some authority, "Don't worry about it, just wear gloves and stand a bit closer, next time."  We will make a prediction here, fairly soon, with lots of Baby-Boomers retiring, there will be more and more interest in this small cannon shooting hobby.  Any well thought out methods this group can figure out now, will help us all get a jump on those entering at a later date.  That's why Double D's experience is so very valuable here.  Just a thought.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

[Cannoneer]

   Double D, thanks for the tips, I'm going to check them out. The ball bearings roll down the barrel easily when it's clean but after about five shots it starts to get a little tight so if I used patches I was giong to swab the tube out after every shot. Believe me I've thought about what you posted about playing it safe and buying lead balls before you said it. If a patched ball bearig did get stuck I have an air comp. and an attachment with a trigger and a rubber tip that fits tight over the vent, I already used it when I broke a nylon jag off in the tube last time I was cleaning it and the jag and patches popped right out. I think (hope) that the comp. would be strong enough to pop the ball out. The only reason I'm using them is because a buddy gave me a mess of them a couple of years ago and they've just been sitting here ever since but I am going to go and buy some lead.

That's no photo optical illusion, the bench is tilting forward from people leaning on it for so many years as they were firing. I may be an oddball but I kind of like it that way, it seems to make it easier to sight down the line of metal, of course I also don't have anything to compare it to because I haven't fired off a flat surface yet. I had FFg there, I used the FFFg because I thought it would be more accurate, I'll check out the two F in the stainless gun next time. We have hit and pushed on the bench, it's pretty solid, the steel posts are set in concrete and there is steel flat stock welded to the post and going under the wood out towards the front. The gun with the wheel off the bench is replica of one of the Constitution's 24 PDR's, it's brass and I'm only going to fire salutes with it.

I really appreciate your offer concerning maintnance on the Colt Python and S&W 686 but their both working magically, of course I'll keep your selflessly kind offer in mind just in case they ever need work. Concerning your last paragraph, it would be a great idea, just a short tutorial on everything you learned in the SAMCC but more advanced than what you've posted on it before.

Terry C., thanks, it seems like whatever flavor of stainless this gun is made out of bounces pretty well because the barrel hit right on the edge of the steel stool on the way down and all it had was a tiny scratch on the second reinforce. The mahogany carriage got chipped on the last step on the right cheek but I think I'll be able to patch it up so it's not that noticable.

George, thanks, that anecdote makes me feel better about what I did (or more accurately, what I didn't do).

Mike and Tracy, I will get to the revolver cannon thread, I promise. I type like a drugged three toed sloth.

[Double D]

   Double D, thanks for the tips, I'm going to check them out. The ball bearings roll down the barrel easily when it's clean but after about five shots it starts to get a little tight so if I used patches I was giong to swab the tube out after every shot. Believe me I've thought about what you posted about playing it safe and buying lead balls before you said it. If a patched ball bearig did get stuck I have an air comp. and an attachment with a trigger and a rubber tip that fits tight over the vent,

This doesn't always work...don't ask.

I already used it when I broke a nylon jag off in the tube last time I was cleaning it and the jag and patches popped right out. I think (hope) that the comp. would be strong enough to pop the ball out. The only reason I'm using them is because a buddy gave me a mess of them a couple of years ago and they've just been sitting here ever since but I am going to go and buy some lead.

I swab between shots. I put a bore brush on the rod.  Wrap a wet patch around the brush and run it in an out to swabe the bore.  Pull the wet patch of and wrap the brush with a dry patch and run that in an dry the bore.  When you make you patches make the wide enough for one full wrap with just a slight overlap on the brush.  Make them 1 1/2 times the length of the brush. You want the patch to over hang on the end of the brush to clean the bottom of the bore.

I had FFg there, I used the FFFg because I thought it would be more accurate, I'll check out the two F in the stainless gun next time. We have hit and pushed on the bench, it's pretty solid, the steel posts are set in concrete and there is steel flat stock welded to the post and going under the wood out towards the front. The gun with the wheel off the bench is replica of one of the Constitution's 24 PDR's, it's brass and I'm only going to fire salutes with it.

The FFFG will burn to fast and have to much pressure.  If you are using 45 caliber I would start with 35 grains of FFG and a patched lead ball and work up to 40 grains.

If you have a gun carriage that won't sit flat do this.  Loosen all the carrige screws. Set the gun on a flat surface surface and tighten the screws.   

I really appreciate your offer concerning maintnance on the Colt Python and S&W 686 but their both working magically, of course I'll keep your selflessly kind offer in mind just in case they ever need work.

But of course you know I didn't mean the pisolvers.  When I had my shop open years ago, I would cringe every time a Colt DA revlover came in the shop.  They are as delicate a swiss watch and a pain in the left hip to tune.  S&W DA's now there is a gun.  Friend loaned me his Model 15 to shoot in combat pistol match Down in SA.  His Team of MOTH Veterans shot in an annual match against the FNB Security team. FNB guys showed up with the hot rod 1911's and SA Version of the Berretta 92.  One of the guys from the FNB team came over to me and told me I would be at a disadvatage with the DA revolver  as all the stages were 8 rounds.   I said but only the best 6 shots scored....He gave me afunny look and walked away.  Later the same guy over to me and asked me if I knew that I could cock the hammer before I fired. I said yes.   After the match when they passed out awards and I had taken 4th out 38 shooters, this same guy came over to me and asked me if I shoot handguns a lot.  I told him that this match was the first time I had fired an hand gun in 5 years.  He stopped bothereng me after that.
[/quote]

[Don Krag]

Do y'all have any pics of these sighting rings in use?


Lasers can be found fairly cheap at Wickedlaser.com. Just keep in mind that lasers over 5mw are regulated now...not generally enforced unless there's a complaint, but regulated none the less. This is why lasers over 4.9 mw are sold via the web and come in from overseas. Astronomers use the 10-35mw 532 nm lasers for sighting at night. Of commercially available lasers, green will have the highest apparent brightness for a given power. At 20mw, it should be easily visible in daylight and with a sufficiently small divergence, have a "spot" of only a few inches at 100 yards. Of course, I used to be the laser safety officer for the Texas A&M system, so I have to add....don't look into the laser or shine it at anybody. Especially if you're using 10's of mw of power. These can produce instant retinal damage. That being said, I personally like the 35mw green ones. That seems to be the breakpoint where after that, they start becoming really expensive.

[Cannoneer]

If your gun does not have a large front muzzle flare , you will need to make a sighting disc.  Make a disc the same diameter as the cascable.  In the center of the disc attach a rod, sliding fit  bore diameter and about 1/4 bore depth long.  Slide this in the bore and use the aiming method described in the post above.If I remember correctly, a technique  similair to this is described in Switliks book.

Do y'all have any pics of these sighting rings in use?

   Don, are you asking about the bore sighting disk that Double D was describing?

Added 8/8/8 6:45 PM       Or is the n in ring a typo and you're asking if Terry or Dom have any pics of their (rigs) scopes in action?

[Victor3]

Do y'all have any pics of these sighting rings in use?


Lasers can be found fairly cheap at Wickedlaser.com. Just keep in mind that lasers over 5mw are regulated now...not generally enforced unless there's a complaint, but regulated none the less. This is why lasers over 4.9 mw are sold via the web and come in from overseas. Astronomers use the 10-35mw 532 nm lasers for sighting at night. Of commercially available lasers, green will have the highest apparent brightness for a given power. At 20mw, it should be easily visible in daylight and with a sufficiently small divergence, have a "spot" of only a few inches at 100 yards. Of course, I used to be the laser safety officer for the Texas A&M system, so I have to add....don't look into the laser or shine it at anybody. Especially if you're using 10's of mw of power. These can produce instant retinal damage. That being said, I personally like the 35mw green ones. That seems to be the breakpoint where after that, they start becoming really expensive.

 Just a note - There is no legal problem in owning and using any laser (no matter what the power) in the U.S. as long as you terminate the beam on your own property and (obviously) don't injure anyone with it. The FDA now restricts the importation of >5mw hand-held laser devices into the U.S. that don't have safety features such as a shutter, key lock, activation delay etc., but there is no legal ban on ownership or use as long as you're not pointing it into the sky or onto a person.

[Cannoneer]

   Thanks for your comments Victor3, I was wondering who would be responsible for devising these laws ( one of either body of the house of representitives? ) and how they could be enforced efficiently. An importation ban that would result in stiff fines if ignored, I can understand.

[Cannoneer]

I really appreciate your offer concerning maintnance on the Colt Python and S&W 686 but their both working magically, of course I'll keep your selflessly kind offer in mind just in case they ever need work.

But of course you know I didn't mean the pisolvers.

Now then. just because I was in error in making an assumption about it being the wheel guns you were referring to doesn't give you the right to libelize ( no libelize is not a real word and neither is pisolver )  my prized Python! I know it's only a declaration of mere opinion and personal preference but in my humble estimation the Colt Python is the most beautiful handgun ever made. Now, I will admit that beauty doesn't necessarily also define performance but at least it lets you look cool while you're shooting it. I think the phrase " as delicate as a Swiss watch " is an utter exaggeration, sure with continued heavy use it might have a slight tendency to maybe get a little "out of time" but gorgeous ladies can also be tempermental and that certainly doesn't mean we're going to stop loving them. So it has overly complex mechanics and this might make it, " a pain in the left hip " to re-time the lockwork but that's what you went to school for and that's why hard working stiffs like me have to reach down in our shallow pockets and pay you all that big money to re-tune them. Alright, all of us that have a little knowledge about revolvers know a Smith has a lot smoother action right out of the box even compared to a Colt that has been worked on, so you made your mean spirited point, I hope your happy. When these SA pistoleros were bending your ear about the superiority of their semi-autos all you had to do was say one persons name: Jerry Miculek and I think that that by itself would have been enough to shut them up.

So, it's the cannons you were really talking about, well you should know right off the bat that you're never going to get your hands on these. You know darn well that this unusual mental disorder that afflicts you, namely the irresistable urge to spray paint over natures own artwork makes this an impossible dream. If you had these two guns you would most definitely want to cover up in the one case beautiful mahogany and in the other case gorgeous walnut and this crime if allowed to occur might actually bring a tear to my eye.

[seacoastartillery]

     Everybody seems to be fascinated with lasers, so why don't those who are really interested in bore sighting their muzzleloading cannon, just go down to your nearest Sportsman's Warehouse or Gander Mountain store and buy a cheap, bore sighting red laser?  They cost 39 to 89 dollars and come with several standard plastic bore-centering bushings that fit over a 1/8 inch spud.  For your cannon you will have to make or have made a centering bushing with an O.D. about .0003" to .0005" less than your bore dia. and also precisely drill and bore a close-fitting center hole to hold the laser's spud without any shake.  We made ours from a scrap piece of 1.25" dia. brass rod 2.00" long.  Next you will have to calculate where your cannonball will first cross the line of sight.  Zeroed for 100 yards, our 9 oz. Brooke bolt crosses the line of sight at 35 yards where we place a slightly reflective laser target supplied with the laser. A plain, light colored, piece of paper will work just fine.

     The big question is:  At what distance from the cannon's muzzle will you place your laser target?  For the answer to that, we go to an excellent, free, ballistics calculator website called JBM Small Arms Ballistics, http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj_basic/traj_basic.html   When you get there look for JBM-Calculations-Trajectory (Basic), because, unless you are a serious student of ballistics, that's all you will ever need.  This is the best ballistics calculator we have ever found and we have looked and looked.  It's easy to use if you look up few basic terms in their "Terms" list.  Meanings are simply presented.  The chart that we used to determine our 35 yard laser target distance is below and you can see why we picked 35 yards. 


               Calculated Table
Range  DropDrop   Windage   Velocity    Mach   Energy   Time     Lead   Lead
(yds)   (in)(moa)   (in)(moa)   (ft/s)   (none)     (ft•lbs)   (s)   (in)   (moa)
0   -5.0   ***   0.0   ***   1200.0   1.064   12589.4   0.000   0.0   ***
10   -3.2   -30.8   0.0   0.0   1172.7   1.039   12023.0   0.025   0.0   0.0
20   -1.7   -8.2   0.0   0.0   1147.3   1.017   11508.1   0.051   0.0   0.0
30   -0.5   -1.5   0.0   0.0   1123.8   0.996   11041.4   0.078   0.0   0.0
40   0.5   1.2   0.0   0.0   1102.1   0.977   10618.8   0.105   0.0   0.0
50   1.2   2.3   0.0   0.0   1082.0   0.959   10235.4   0.132   0.0   0.0
60   1.6   2.5   0.0   0.0   1063.4   0.943   9886.6   0.160   0.0   0.0
70   1.7   2.3   0.0   0.0   1046.1   0.927   9567.8   0.188   0.0   0.0
80   1.5   1.7   0.0   0.0   1030.0   0.913   9275.1   0.217   0.0   0.0
90   0.9   1.0   0.0   0.0   1014.9   0.900   9004.8   0.247   0.0   0.0
100   -0.0   -0.0   0.0   0.0   1000.6   0.887   8753.8   0.276   0.0   0.0
110   -1.2   -1.1   0.0   0.0   987.2   0.875   8519.8   0.307   0.0   0.0
120   -2.8   -2.3   0.0   0.0   974.4   0.864   8300.4   0.337   0.0   0.0
130   -4.8   -3.5   0.0   0.0   962.2   0.853   8093.9   0.368   0.0   0.0
140   -7.2   -4.9   0.0   0.0   950.5   0.842   7898.8   0.400   0.0   0.0
150   -9.9   -6.3   0.0   0.0   939.3   0.833   7713.7   0.431   0.0   0.0
160   -13.0   -7.8   0.0   0.0   928.5   0.823   7537.7   0.463   0.0   0.0
170   -16.5   -9.3   0.0   0.0   918.1   0.814   7369.8   0.496   0.0   0.0
180   -20.5   -10.9   0.0   0.0   908.1   0.805   7209.2   0.529   0.0   0.0
190   -24.8   -12.5   0.0   0.0   898.3   0.796   7055.3   0.562   0.0   0.0
200   -29.6   -14.1   0.0   0.0   888.9   0.788   6907.5   0.596   0.0   0.0
08 Aug 2008 21:36:31, JBM [http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm]


     You can see from this chart that the 9 oz. Brooke bolt at 1,200 FPS crosses the line of sight 0.5" low at 30 yds. and 0.5" high at 40 yds., so we say, at approx. 35 yds the bolt will be really close to coincident with the line of sight.

     Use the information to have some fun as you go out and actually do some projectile shooting!  Please remember, bore sighting is NOT a precise method of aiming for bullseyes, but rather a method to get your projectile on the target paper at the selected range, and save you much frustration.  In our case, this is almost always 100 yards.  For a smooth bore of .50" to 1.25" bore dia. you might want to try 25, 50 or 75 yards to start. 

Have fun!

Mike and Tracy



         

[Victor3]

   Thanks for your comments Victor3, I was wondering who would be responsible for devising these laws ( one of either body of the house of representitives? ) and how they could be enforced efficiently. An importation ban that would result in stiff fines if ignored, I can understand.

 Boom J - Unfortunately, I can't answer all of your questions. However, these FDA pages may answer some of them...

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/radhealth/products/internetlasers.html

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/radhealth/products/lpm.html

 The FDA has some measure of authority over the manufacture, designation, importation and use of laser devices.

 Customs impounds a fraction of the illegally imported (and often fraudulently labeled as <5mw) laser devices. Many of these are imported as "laser pointers", but anything >5mw falls into a different (and regulated) classification.

 AFAIK, there are no "stiff fines" for either seller or buyer (importer). However, if you pay Wickedlasers.com $499.99 for a 100mw green "pointer" and have it smashed by Customs, you'll probably feel somewhat 'stiffed', as the people in China will still have your $$$ 

[Cannoneer]

   Victor3, thanks for all the info on the legality issues concerning these lasers, those are both interesting sites that you posted. I suppose it makes sense that the Food & Drug Adm. would be the govt. agency responsible for their regulation.

[Double D]

I really appreciate your offer concerning maintnance on the Colt Python and S&W 686 but their both working magically, of course I'll keep your selflessly kind offer in mind just in case they ever need work.

But of course you know I didn't mean the pisolvers.

Now then. just because I was in error in making an assumption about it being the wheel guns you were referring to doesn't give you the right to libelize ( no libelize is not a real word and neither is pisolver )  my prized Python! I know it's only a declaration of mere opinion and personal preference but in my humble estimation the Colt Python is the most beautiful handgun ever made. Now, I will admit that beauty doesn't necessarily also define performance but at least it lets you look cool while you're shooting it. I think the phrase " as delicate as a Swiss watch " is an utter exaggeration, sure with continued heavy use it might have a slight tendency to maybe get a little "out of time" but gorgeous ladies can also be tempermental and that certainly doesn't mean we're going to stop loving them. So it has overly complex mechanics and this might make it, " a pain in the left hip " to re-time the lockwork but that's what you went to school for and that's why hard working stiffs like me have to reach down in our shallow pockets and pay you all that big money to re-tune them. Alright, all of us that have a little knowledge about revolvers know a Smith has a lot smoother action right out of the box even compared to a Colt that has been worked on, so you made your mean spirited point, I hope your happy. When these SA pistoleros were bending your ear about the superiority of their semi-autos all you had to do was say one persons name: Jerry Miculek and I think that that by itself would have been enough to shut them up.

So, it's the cannons you were really talking about, well you should know right off the bat that you're never going to get your hands on these. You know darn well that this unusual mental disorder that afflicts you, namely the irresistable urge to spray paint over natures own artwork makes this an impossible dream. If you had these two guns you would most definitely want to cover up in the one case beautiful mahogany and in the other case gorgeous walnut and this crime if allowed to occur might actually bring a tear to my eye.

ROTF&LMAO

[Don Krag]

I was curious as to pics of the sight ring on the muzzle that DD described. I think in pictures and was having a hard time figuring out the assembly from the descriptions!

Just a note - There is no legal problem in owning and using any laser (no matter what the power) in the U.S. as long as you terminate the beam on your own property and (obviously) don't injure anyone with it. The FDA now restricts the importation of >5mw hand-held laser devices into the U.S. that don't have safety features such as a shutter, key lock, activation delay etc., but there is no legal ban on ownership or use as long as you're not pointing it into the sky or onto a person.

Depends what state you are in. Texas regulates the use of >5mW lasers and requires a registration with DSHS similar to x-ray producing devices regardless whose property it's on.(25 TAC 289.301(a-b)) Of course, I was also told by them that TX legislature does not designate any money to the BRC to inspect or enfore the rules, so they don't. Lawmakers at work!

The best one I had to deal with was a small 3b diode laser some Chinese students bought from Canada. It had no product registration in the US so it was technically "smuggled" via Fed Ex. It had no markings or labels either.TX DSHS had me call the FDA, they told me they regulate performance standards, not importation and to call the dept of commerce. They said it's already here, they only regulate the importation. "Even though it was imported illegally, it's already here...we don't regulate it now...call your state office." I marked/labeled it properly, added it to our registry and gave it back to the students.

[thelionspaw]

I know that this is going to go over like the proverbial red-head at the family reunion but this high-tech intrusion into the world of antiquity puzzles me. Then again, I burn wood, I don't have a cell phone, TV, ATV or an SUV and only just bought a computer. Sounds like I died 50 years ago; right?

This is on my friends Polish Horse Artillery website.  I am in the process of fabricating one for my full size 15th c. breechblock.  Seems to me, the principle can be used quite successfully with a miniature if a periscope/prism was employed (unless one has a pin-head). 

If you are going to wrap yourself in the past with black powder and cannon, why dilute the excursion with lasers?

Richard "The Dinosaur"

[Ex 49'er]

This is the setup I use on my one inch bore napoleon. It is a chinese .30 cal. inline optical bore sight. The mandrel is the inside roller
for a TP dispenser. The holes in the ends were already there; but, needed to be enlarged. There are stadia lines on the optics
inside.The piece of plastic was $1 at a local 2nd hand store and I got the boresight on eBay for $20 + shipping.

[Victor3]

 "If you are going to wrap yourself in the past with black powder and cannon, why dilute the excursion with lasers?"

 Richard "The Dinosaur"

 Do you mean Ford "Excursion", Richard? Is that what that truck is, towing your cannon there in your avatar pic? 

 I think most of us want to have the ol'-timey experience of black powder cannons, but with a dash of 'new-tech' here and there for convenience. 

[thelionspaw]

NOPE!
Not a F-ound O-n R-oad D-ying.  It's a 1998 Subaru with a bad differential so, "Have gun; will travel" is out until I get something to tow it with. 

New tech....old tech. That's why they make vanilla and chocolate.

Richard "The Mule Skinner"

[seacoastartillery]

     Richard the Magnificent,   What a novel idea you have presented here via this old print.  This is truly an "In-Line" bore sight if there ever was one, and I really love the way the inventor has interjected his eyesight to be exactly coincident to the bore axis.  Nice to see what you can do without lasers or flashlights!

     Ex 49'er,   It's nice to see that original thought is still allowed "Behind the Redwood Curtain in Northern California".  I think you have really captured the essence of what this thread was envisioned to be which was real, practical, reasonable-cost ways to bore-sight your muzzleloading cannon.  I bet it is a very quick and efficient way to do it as well.

Thank you both!

Tracy and Mike

P.S.  Victor3 is right, we now use lasers only for convenience, because we are very, very deep into the ol'-timey experience all day every day!  Sorry George, no programmers need apply; all we have is manual lathes and mills here.  However, if you are really good at selecting, using and caring for files, we might be interested!