270 Win. & 130gr bullets

[Siskiyou]

A .270 Winchester has been my primary rifle since 1957.  Even in my youthful exuberance I would not have tried a 600-yard shot.  The first scope on the rifle was a 4-power scope, which did not make the rifle a 600-yard rifle.  While the opportunity for long shots presented themselves in the burns, I passed.

In the late 1960’s I found a location in a 100-yearold-brush field where I could watch a productive deer trail on a distant ridge.  I pulled out a topographic map and calculated the range to a number of locations where I thought the opportunity might present itself.  Most of the locations fell between three and four hundred yards.  The distant deer trail was located on a long, sharp ridge.  The ridge I set on was similar.  The canyon in-between ran for a mile more.  Why do I describe the canyon because these canyon acts like a chimney with strong afternoon up canyon winds, and reversing in the evening.  I had put a couple three-foot lengths of survey flagging on the distant ridge to help me dope the wind.  The ridge with the deer trail is a razor back ridge with thick brush.  I tried to hunt the ridge itself and the deer would take a step and be out of sight.

My load was a 130-grain Remington C-L pushed by 60-grains of H4831.  The scope was a Weaver 4X with a Rangefinder Crosshair. 

I had to take the shot from a setting position.  The distance was between 350 and 400 yards.  At the shot the buck disappeared.  I found blood, but I did not find the deer.  It had take about twenty minutes to cross the steep canyon to the other ridge top.  I am still sick about losing that deer. 

I have analyzed the shot many times.  I have killed a few bucks since at that range with the same load, but I have also passed up a number of shots.

The standard bullet in that rifle is now a 150-grain bullet that gives better penetration and a better blood trail.

My favorite long range .270 Winchester now sports a Nikon 3x9 scope with a bullet drop compensation crosshair.  The ammunition is handloaded 140-grain Hornady BT bullets or original 140-grain BT Winchester Silvertip bullets.  I purchased this rifle around 1970 and my favorite long-range bullets were the Norma 150-grain Match Boattail and the 150-grain Sierra Boattail.  I believe any of these bullets with my loads out perform my 130-grain loads when it comes to deep penetration.    All of these bullets have proven themselves on deer.

A few other things have changed over the years.  My 8x binoculars have been replaced with 10x binoculars.  I glassed real hard after the shot and could not pickup the deer, who knows I might have picked up with the stronger glasses.

The biggest difference today besides the bullet is the scope.  The 3x9 Nikon is a much better and more powerful glass.  I might be able to place the bullet better, but the blood looked like heart blood.  It was a frontal shot aimed at the center of the chest.

What would I do different if hunting the same location this year.  In the pre-season I would take my pruning shears out there and build a blind.  I might prune back some of the brush to create a better shooting lane.  I would also create a rest at that location.  I would take my Nikon Rangefinder out there ahead of time and the day of the hunting to pre-plan the shot.  I had pre-planned the first hunt, but the results were not good.

I prefer my .270 for most of my hunting.  But for a return engagement I would take the 7MM Magnum loaded with 160-grain Speer Boattail Hot-Cor.  I believe the 160-grain bullet on a frontal shot at a slight angel at four hundred yards will penetrate the chest of a desert Mule Deer and exit out the rib cage. 

You might think the old fart needs to shoot more.  He has burned a couple of kegs of H4831, a few thousand primers, and his marksmanship has shown some improvement.  But the old guy would not take the six hundred yard shot.

[jro45]

Tenderfoot,  I liked what you said about running.

[Lone Star]

...Even in my youthful exuberance I would not have tried a 600-yard shot....I would take the 7MM Magnum loaded with 160-grain Speer Boattail Hot-Cor....But the old guy would not take the six hundred yard shot.

Lots of good sense in Siskiyou's post.  The only thing I'd correct is that Speer does not make Hot-Core boatailled bullets.  Their 160SP Hot-Core has a BC almost identical to their 160BTSP so the choice between them would not be based upon external ballistics, but rather on their terminal performance.  The boatailed bullets are built to expand more readilly than the Hot-Cores, so for extreme ranges they would be more likely to expand and kill more quickly.  Penetration of any 160-grain bullet at reduced velocity should not be a problem at 600 yards, but expansion might be.  I'll never know as I'll not shoot at any big game at ranges anywhere near 600 yards.  But that's just me....


.

[Siskiyou]

Lone Star:  I have to agree the Speer Boattail is not a Hot-Core, my mistake.  I think I have two boxes of the 160-grain boattails I picked up along the way.  My best move was to increase my inventory of the flat base 160-grain Speer Hot-Cores a few years ago.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/bullets.aspx

The 600-yard shot needs a lot of practice.  Few go out and shoot their hunting rifle weekly at that range.  A shot to be made by a 600-yard expert.


 

[Lone Star]

Personally I prefer the Hot-Core designs for game as well.  They form slightly smaller mushrooms and penetrate deeper than most other cup-and-core bullets, for a price much less than premiums. 

I've shot enough 600 yard targets on National Match courses - and seen enough shooters try - to know the difficulty in the adequate placement of shots at that range on the ground under stressed conditions.  Darn few hunters posses the necessary skills to do it on demand, period.



.

[jro45]

I can do it any time with my 270 shooting 130gr bullets to 600 yds.

[billy]

My howa 1500 in 270 loves federal premium 130 grain sierra gamekings,longest shot to date for me 7 pt. at 226 yards,didn,t go 10 yards aver the shoot.

[Jim in Mo]

JRO 45, I also have a Burris with the ballistic plex reticle. The scopes good for the money and the reticle works fine but only so far. Out to 300 yds., the bullet drop compensator works right on, but 400 its off a bit & 500 its off more. Nothing wrong with scope just asking a scope to do a lot of work for you. Wanting a deer to drop on the spot is asking alot without a spinal shot.
I'm new to this blog, glad to be here will check in as often as possible. BTW and no offense I'm an '06 man. 

[bilmac]

Shoot paper and maybe an occasional rockchuck at 600 yards. Treat deer elk and antellope better than that.

[BBF]

A letter, e-mail or phone call to any of the bullet makers would probably give you the minimum impact velocity for reliable expansion in a testing medium. Base uyour bullet selection and type of game hunted on that information.

 Example:
Being a 45-70 dude I called Hornady in ref to the 350 gr. RN. The info I got from them was 1800fps min.MV for the distance that would be common for that cartridge.

[K.K]

Personally, I'd be more impressed with the story of a long, careful stalk on an animal, getting close, and making a humane shot, than I would of a Hail Mary at 600 yards. And, by the way, a staionary paper target shot at from a bench, with all the time in the world, and perhaps a rangefinder, ain't in the same ballpark as a shot a moving live game animal from typical field positions. Perhaps I'm a skeptic, but there aren't many rifles, or rifleman that can make consistent shots like the one described on command, every time. And our game deserves at least that much.

K.K

[John R.]

I agree with not taking 600 yard shots at a game animal with a 270. Just because you can do it off the bench, does not mean you can do it in the field. Get closer or don't shoot, the animals deserve better.

[jro45]

Well I feel very sure of my shooting been shooting 47 years. Was just wondering if anyone else had done this.

[nomosendero]

Not with a 270. I used one for the first time last year because I thought it was almost immoral to have not hunted with one. I took one (plain ADL) to WY last fall & took a Whitetail here in AR. I took 1 Mule Deer at
over 400 yards & my son did as well. We took several Antelope at various yardages. The 270 is capable for sure as long as you are. 

[bilmac]

The ability to hit with a 270 if conditions are good is not the question. Making a fatal shot, and the ability to find game shot at extreme range is the problem.

[Sweet 6.5]

Hi

I looked at my Remington balastics progam - if you zero the 270 at 300 yards the drop to
600 is 50 inches.

Does this mean you have to aim so high that you can't see the deer in the scope?
I don't have a range were I can test this.

Cheers
Sweet

[Graybeard]

No it doesn't mean that. At 600 yards the FOV will be plenty large enough to see the deer but yeah it does mean you'll have to put those crosshairs WAAAY up there over the back of a deer to hit it or adjust the elevation setting one or the other. It is one reason I think such long range big game hunting is not hunting at all but rather shooting and not the best of ideas really.

[rickt300]

Why would you shoot at anything past 400 yards? You surely wouldn't do it at a doe or a young buck so you are risking wounding and losing a trophy class deer.  My absolute disgust for this type of shooting comes from watching people shoot at elk at the north end of Yellowstone and off of Pine mountain south to the Colorado border in Wyoming. At 400 yards the wind will almost cause 4 times the amount of deviation from sight line as drop or around an inch per MPH.  Most people have to shoot a couple times to figure drop and windage so the animal is now moving. The reason no one set up in the valley was because they were afraid of getting hit by the lunatics shooting from the mountain.

[nomosendero]

What about the hundreds if not thousands of F-Match & Tactical shooters & thousands of long range Varmit shooters, should we tell them to stay home next fall? Maybe so

The man asked if anyone has done it with a 270, plain and simple. If the only thing a shooter would know
to do in this case is hold the crosshairs high, then you really aren't knowledgeable in this area. There is such a thing as rangefinders & "clicking up" with a quality scope or using a rangefinding reticle as long as you know "exactly" the yardage those dots or lines represent with your load. And BTW, windage is much harder to call than elevation if you know how to allow for elevation, but usually not mentioned. Thanks to you Rick for mentioning that, if you can't determine the wind from you to the animal, don't fire.

The key is knowing the limitations of your equipment & your abilities combined with the conditions. There are times in WY where I don't want to shoot beyond 200 yards because of very high & irratic winds. To me,
beyond 300 yard shooting calls for a different level of practice, equipment & self discipline. 600 is doeable, but that to me is more in the realm of a custom, heavy rifle or a very good factory set up like a well tuned
Sendero type rifle. As far as the cartridge is concerned, the 270 will work at that yardage, but I would prefer a bigger round. A 140 Accubond with 3,000fps mv would have over 1,900fps & 1,100ft. # at 600, that works but with not much margin.   

I wonder a bunch about these 1,500 yd. stories/EXTREME yardages, that is their call,I know I would not try it. I do know that with some equipment available today & with the skill of some who use it, some folks are much more capable of a 600 yard shot than other so called "hunters" are of a 200 yard shot with their 50 yard "pie plate" sight ins.
Far more Deer are wounded by the pie plate crowd than a dedicated long range shooter.

Big Game hunting should be taken very seriously regardless of weapon or range & I say that as a bowhunter.
Alot of clowns wound tons of Deer each year with bows, but I will continue to bow hunt.

There is no yardage where a "hunter" transforms to a "shooter". I am not PERSONALLY into setting up on a hunt with THE SPECIFIC INTENTION of shooting an animal way out there, you could call that a shooter I would think & if it suits you, but if a "hunter" sets up during gun season where he is looking over specific trails & rutting area that he knows to be good up close, but at the same time you can see a couple
of good areas at a distance, if I see a Deer at one of these longer spots & shoot him, now I am just a "shooter". Or if I see a Buck up close & take him, now I am a heap big "hunter"? Sorry guys, not logical.

We can talk "ethics" with bows, mz, handguns & rifles, but this is not an ethics thread. Look at the question, maybe you have something to add, maybe not. My first post was just an answer to his question.
I did not want to get into this, but felt it necessary in view of the direction some want to take it. If anyone wants to start an "ETHICS" thread, that is your right, but I would appreciate it if you would start it in hunting & shooting or some more appropriate forum, medium bores should be about MEDIUM BORES.

Thanks

[Coyote Hunter]

With my 270 I can shoot to 600 yds shooting 130gr bullets. I have a Burris scope on it and 600yds is no problem.
All I need now is a deer at 600 yds. Has anybody else done this with the 270 Win?

Jro45 –

You’ve managed to catch quite a bit of flack for suggesting a 600-yard shot with a .270 Win. 

Ignoring your ability, for a moment, let’s look at the ballistics.  You don’t mention your load so I’ll propose one – the 130g Nosler Partition (BC.416) at 3158fps (Nosler #6).

At 600 yards the Partition is running 1945fps with 1092fpe.  A 10mph crosswind will cause a 27.6” drift.  You are, of course, free to choose not to shoot due to the crosswind.  A range finder and a little practice with the Ballistic Plex reticle at that range pretty much makes the 54” drop a non-issue.  I would assume that at 600 yards you are not attempting a freehand shot but rather would use a substantial rest of some sort (pack, stump, rock, etc.).

Given all that, I have no problem with your taking such a shot if you are well prepared for it.  A few weeks back I was shooting my Ruger .30-06 at the range, using slow-poke 2611fps 168g A-MAX loads that are designed to mimic my .308 Win target loads.  The week before the range had had a competition and there were balloons tacked to the ground at 500 and 600 yards.  The balloons had lost much of their air in the intervening week but were still running 4-6” in diameter.  I stapled a 6” balloon to a 600 yard target, a 5” balloon to a 500 yard target, and a couple balloons at 300 yards.  After messing around with the 500 yard steel gong and balloons at 300 yards, I decided to go for the 600 yard balloon, having not taken a 600-yard shot all day.  Having never shot that rifle/load/scope combination at 600 yards before, I allowed myself a calibrating shot, after which I drove down to check the target.  My next shot broke the 600 yard balloon and the shot after that broke the balloon at 500 yards.  Admittedly, there wasn’t much wind that day.  My secret for success was like yours, a Burris scope with a Ballistic Plex reticle – in this case a 3x9 Fullfield II on my Ruger .30-06.

More recently I had Daughter #2 and her fiancé at the range.  Neither had ever shot at 500 yards yet they were both hitting the 500 yard steel gong on a regular basis using my Ruger .30-06, my slow-poke loads and the Burris scope with the Ballistic plex reticle.

Yesterday I was at the range with my hunting buddy and again we were shooting the 500 yard steel gong, this time with my Remington .30-06 with a Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x with Ballistic Plex reticle, a Remington .308 Win with a standard reticle in a 4.5-14x Leupold Vari-X III, and my buddy’s Ruger 7mm RM with a Simmons Aetec 2.8-10x with standard reticle.  Hitting the 500 yard gong with the .30-06 and Ballistic Plex reticle was ridiculously easy for both of us.  Using my .308 Win with standard reticle caused an initial miss for me but after that it also was easy.  My buddy tried his 7mm Rem Mag and  hit 2 of 3 with the miss very, very close as indicated by the dirt flying behind the gong.  Had we been shooting elk, it appeared every shot, hit or miss, would have been I the kill zone.  I might add this was the first time my buddy had ever shot at 500 yards. 

Granted, 500 yards is different than 600 yards but it does show what inexperienced people can do with a bit of practice and how the Ballistic Plex reticle simplifies things immensely.

A .270 would not be my first choice for 600-yard shots at deer and I would suggest that if you can get closer than 600 yards that you do so.  That said, if you can’t get closer, if you’re prepared for and comfortable with the shot  and confident you can make it, take it.

[nomosendero]

Thanks CH for the nuts & bolts reponse & actually answering the question.

[LONGTOM]

Thanks CH.
I had this long reply typed out but it took so long to do with my hunt and peck typing that yours and another reply came in.
I went to read them and forgot to hit POST so I lost it.
Just as well as it probally would have started something and I have been there and done that and don't care to repeat.
You pretty much back up my original reply anyway.
Thanks


LONGTOM

[Graybeard]

There are lots of devices including both scopes with a multitude of lines or dots and rangefinders to help with distance determination and holdover tis true. Wind is a whole nother matter and just not so simple. You can determine with some level of precision what it's doing where you are and might even have some idea out there where the animal is but in between if there is a lot of open air and perhaps some elevation differential between you is not so easy. Speaking of elevation if it's considerably different and it very well might be that also alters the effects of distance.

I can't say that I've ever shot big game much over 200 yards as most places I hunt it's just not necessary. I have shot and SHOT At prairie dogs out to way the hell out there. Shot at being an operative word here as I sure missed my fair share way off out there and wind more so than distance was the reason.

At the last PD shoot I went to back in May-June of this year I was shooting my .22-250 shooting a lot flatter than most all big game rifles anyone might have along and likely affected less by wind at such distances as well. I had one PD way out there too far out really on such flat terrain to determine how far even tho I had a rangefinder supposed to read out to 1000 yards. It might on large or highly reflective objects but it did not on that little PD. The terrain was not exactly flat but close enough with only a gentle rise and no clearly defined changes or large objects to range on so my RF was useless. The wind was high and variable.

I shot perhaps a box of ammo maybe less at that one PD and never did hit him. I could have opened another box and kept at it and might have eventually got him but I figured that he had earned his life by avoiding that many shots from me. I came within a hair's breath of him several times but never did quite get the range and wind both figured out at the same time.

True enough had he been a deer or elk most shots would have been in the kill zone and it would have been easier to range as well. But I was shooting from a rock solid shooting bench set up that I'd not have if I were hunting big game either. How far? Dunno but based on which dot of my Mil Dot reticle I was using to get the bullets to drop into him it must have been close to or over 600 yards.

I find such entertaining on critters like PDs as any hit from that .22-250 is a killing shot even if not istantly fatal it will be quickly. On big game I'm not sold on such shooting. Yeah some folks are far more capable than others and some can't shoot them at 100 yard and for sure have no business trying at 600. I can't answer for anyone but me really but I'd not be shooting at a deer at 600 yards no matter which of my rifles were in my hand at the time.

[nomosendero]

Quote from Graybeard "I can't answer for anyone but me really but I'd not be shooting at a Deer at 600 yards no matter which of my rifles were in my hand at the time." Well, I see nothing wrong with that, because as he said, he is not answering for anyone but himself. By the same tokin, there is a yardage where
Bill would have a limit, otherwise he would not be able to hunt at all. It is irrelevant whther it is 300, 400 or any other yardage, it is his business to know where HE is confident of making a quick killing shot.

I have a limit too, which is no one's business but mine because 1. It is my resposibility to do right with all aspects of the hunt & 2. Other's opinions have NOTHING to do with my & my equipments ability.

It should be the same for anyone, no matter which weapon is used.

[Duckhunter39480]

Try the 600 yard shot with semi-auto and iron sights like the National Match course guys do.  It can be done; I've even put some holes in the x-ring myself.  They are doing it nowdays with AR-15 type rifles.  However, the aiming black is 36" in diameter and always the same size and attitude.  Do all of us a favor and walk up another 300 to 400 yards before you take the shot.  You  gonna have to walk over to the deer anyway after you shoot him, or maybe you drive up to the trophy in your pickup.

[UMD]

To each his own, but I'm a better hunter than a 600 yard shot.  If the only shot I have is 600 yards, the critter wins that round.

[wyohandi]

Well I haven't been slammed on here for awhile so........
Assuming you have all the variables figured out, wind being the
biggest one, 600yds is doable. I would consider it MAX. range for a
130gr bullet though. A 10mph wind, (unheard of here in wyo) will
drift your bullet 30+", it takes alot of practice to read the wind.
Just because its rt to left where you are doesn't mean it is at the target
or anywhere in between, all of which affects bullet flight.
We do alot,alot,alot of long range shooting, I check my zero at 100yds, 1-2 rds
then don't shoot off the bench again all day (love my bi-pod). It's not uncommon
for us to shoot 40-50rds of 300mag in a day out, filled in by lots of 223 from the AR-15.
If the wind is over 10-15mph I would never attempt a shot at a game animal. We have
shot on days when at 450yds you had to hold off 12-15 FEET!!! to even scare the gong.
If your willing to put in the time, get the equipment, know when not to shoot (no room for ego here)
at a game animal, long range is another tool to get the job done.

I will however,conceed (grudgingly) its not,(shaky hands, hard to swallow) hunting (gulp)
in the classic sense of the word, if you go out and set up for that shot
it is however precision shooting, which most need not attempt.

[nomosendero]

To each his own, but I'm a better hunter than a 600 yard shot.  If the only shot I have is 600 yards, the critter wins that round.

How do you know that you are a better hunter than a 600 yard shot? One of the best long rang hunters that I am aware of is also a very good bow hunter with some Pope & Young Bucks to his credit. Have you taken several Pope & Young Bucks & all types of game with a Bow? I don't know you, but I would be willing to bet on my friend.

[LONGTOM]

I think he means he is a better hunter in that he can or will try to stalk closer than 600yds for a shot.
Not that he is better than a hunter who can make a 600ytd shot.
Not sure.

LONGTOM

[nomosendero]

Either way works the same.