Author Topic: Would you consider an 1894C to be a good SHTF weapon? (Read 3204 times)

kmystry · « **on:** August 03, 2008, 04:45:38 AM »

I have an 1894C in .357 mag. I shoot ALOT of .38 +P out of it. It seems to me to smack pretty hard out to about 100 yards. Just wondering if anyone on the forum would consider this gun and possibly the +P to be a good home defense weapon and round? I like these straight walled rounds for ease of reloading and with cast bullets I can get from a local supplier (Bumble Bee Cast Bullet Company) I can shoot these very cost-effectively. Let me say that I usually shoot 125 gr. RNFP bullets.
The thought came to mind that if you had to get into a firefight at "house-to-house suburban neighborhood distances" that this gun using either .357 or .38 +P might be ok. I don't intend to get an AR, AK, FAL, or anything...so no need to give me the word on the latest 30 round "spray and pray" rifle...just the 1894C, 336, Winnie 94, or equivalent. I'm talking lever-actions as a SHTF weapon. I like lever actions abilities for the following reasons:
...Not evil looking
...Can be topped off after just a few rounds if needed.
...Pistol calibers are easy reloads. (A Lee Hand Press or Lee Loader and you're set)
...Cast bullets are relatively easy to replicate and each bullet doesn't take a ton of lead to make.
...Seem to have appropriate power at these distances.
Any others I haven't thought of??
I know it's tempting to just say "shoot what you have" but give me your thoughts as outlined above.
Thanks...

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #1 on:** August 03, 2008, 11:02:42 AM »

In that situation, I think it would be as good as any and better than most. 357's are light compared to other rounds, have pretty fair amount of power out of the rifle barrel, and available anywhere you can buy ammo if needed. Right now I have 3-357 rifles and have 2 more barrels ordered for the Handi's. DP

kevthebassman · « **Reply #2 on:** August 03, 2008, 11:20:57 AM »

Quote from: kmystry on August 03, 2008, 04:45:38 AM

I have an 1894C in .357 mag. I shoot ALOT of .38 +P out of it. It seems to me to smack pretty hard out to about 100 yards. Just wondering if anyone on the forum would consider this gun and possibly the +P to be a good home defense weapon and round? I like these straight walled rounds for ease of reloading and with cast bullets I can get from a local supplier (Bumble Bee Cast Bullet Company) I can shoot these very cost-effectively. Let me say that I usually shoot 125 gr. RNFP bullets.
The thought came to mind that if you had to get into a firefight at "house-to-house suburban neighborhood distances" that this gun using either .357 or .38 +P might be ok. I don't intend to get an AR, AK, FAL, or anything...so no need to give me the word on the latest 30 round "spray and pray" rifle...just the 1894C, 336, Winnie 94, or equivalent. I'm talking lever-actions as a SHTF weapon. I like lever actions abilities for the following reasons:
...Not evil looking
...Can be topped off after just a few rounds if needed.
...Pistol calibers are easy reloads. (A Lee Hand Press or Lee Loader and you're set)
...Cast bullets are relatively easy to replicate and each bullet doesn't take a ton of lead to make.
...Seem to have appropriate power at these distances.
Any others I haven't thought of??
I know it's tempting to just say "shoot what you have" but give me your thoughts as outlined above.
Thanks...

I would say that it's a good rifle and caliber, for the reasons you've mentioned.

Old Syko · « **Reply #3 on:** August 03, 2008, 11:32:10 AM »

I guess it would be better than throwing rocks but not by much when you consider what your competition is going to be using.

mannyrock · « **Reply #4 on:** August 04, 2008, 03:52:45 PM »

A very good all-purpose choice. But, due to the mechanical design of the 1894, you should buy at least two spare followers for the rifle (available from Brownells), and test them to make sure they work. As any cowboy action shooter will tell you, the followers wear out (from metal on metal pinging) at about 600 to 800 rounds, and then you will start experiencing the classic "Marlin jam." It will start with the shorter cartridges (.38 specials), and then eventually proceed upward to the .357 length rounds.

If you put a .357 mag soft point (fired out of a carbine) into a person at 200 yards, they aren't going anywhere. They will be either dead or looking for a blood transfusion. Don't let anyone tell you different. Check your trajectory charts. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sighting in a rifle so that it hits 4 to 5 inches high at 100 yards. The huge availability of ammo, "and the adequacy for killing deer out to 100 yards, make this a great low-budget choice. Morevover, the fact that it isn't a "black gun" makes it very very politically correct.

I have a feeling that in any true shtf situation, all of fhese studs who think that an M-14, AR--15 or similar rifle is the "utlitmate fighting weapon" would be quickly dusted off in my neck of the woods (the Shenandoah Valley) by 14 year old boys, with their deer rifles and 4 power scopes, firing from wooded cover. (Do these "he men" really think that people are going to "charge them" while they sit in foxholes? They need to grow up.)

mannyrock · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2008, 04:05:25 PM »

CORRECTION;

In my prior reply, I said that you should buy 2 spare followers for an 1894. I mean't cartridge lifters, not followers. Sorry for any confusion.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2008, 04:16:21 PM »

Quote from: mannyrock on August 04, 2008, 03:52:45 PM

If you put a .357 mag soft point (fired out of a carbine) into a person at 200 yards, they aren't going anywhere. They will be either dead or looking for a blood transfusion. Don't let anyone tell you different. Check your trajectory charts. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sighting in a rifle so that it hits 4 to 5 inches high at 100 yards. The huge availability of ammo, "and the adequacy for killing deer out to 100 yards, make this a great low-budget choice. Morevover, the fact that it isn't a "black gun" makes it very very politically correct.

I have a feeling that in any true shtf situation, all of fhese studs who think that an M-14, AR--15 or similar rifle is the "utlitmate fighting weapon" would be quickly dusted off in my neck of the woods (the Shenandoah Valley) by 14 year old boys, with their deer rifles and 4 power scopes, firing from wooded cover. (Do these "he men" really think that people are going to "charge them" while they sit in foxholes? They need to grow up.)

Boy ain't that the truth.

Keith L · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2008, 04:21:15 PM »

We talk here about Marlin Centerfire rifles. We don't discuss killing people. Enough now. I will remove any further posts that discuss the killing of people. If more posts of this nature are put on this thread I will go back and remove the ones that refer to killing.

Enough. Now lets get back to discussing the weapons.

GatCat · « **Reply #8 on:** August 05, 2008, 12:18:50 AM »

I think it would be a good choice. Lots of ammo variety from .38 wadcutter or round-nose for small game, nice & quiet. Full house .357 good for anything in the lower 48. A few spare parts would be nice. The long ejectors on the .357 seem a bit flimsy to me, but that is just going by "guess", comparing them to the ejectors on the .44's.
Look back at history..the American West was "civilized" in the late 1890's to WW1 ( and later, through the depression ) with similar rifles in .32-20, .38-40, .44-40 and so on. Kept meat on the table, and folks safe. Ditto their use in Canada, Mexico, South America, and so on. Look at the popularity of the WIn. '92 in those calibers, in the most far-off places a guy can imagine.
Not very glamorous, maybe, but it would sure do well for you!
Mark

bilmac · « **Reply #9 on:** August 05, 2008, 12:43:29 AM »

You forgot to mention the advantage the carbine has that is probably the reason you love the gun and shoot it lots is it's portability and handling. Like most other small firearms, it is more likely to be with you when you need it than some 9 lb. monstrosity with things sticking out all over. Another advantage is that being a pistol caliber is that you can have one of those on your belt almost all the time without the complications of two kinds of ammo.

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2008, 05:09:34 AM »

Thanks, Keith.

pastorp · « **Reply #11 on:** September 09, 2008, 07:26:31 PM »

It will work great for hunting and defense, but not against body armor. JMO, Byron

kevthebassman · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2008, 02:11:13 AM »

Scrapping with folks wearing body armor sounds like a suicide mission to me, no matter what you're shooting.

pastorp · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2008, 05:11:47 AM »

Perhaps but it is probable in the stated senerao. So are baricades. For that you need more penetration than the 357mag can deliver. Regards, Byron

AtlLaw · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2008, 08:50:17 AM »

I guess it would depend on what kind of S is hitting the fan! Now, if it is TEOTWAWKI, the 94 may not be the best choice for the reasons stated or eluded to. But, for the run of the mill period of anarchy, it should do fine! Especially when paired with a pistol in the same caliber

Mannlicher · « **Reply #15 on:** September 14, 2008, 11:52:18 AM »

I don't have much use for a .38/.357 lever rifle, but I do think highly of the .44 Mag Marlin 1894. I would be more inclined to choose that caliber for serious social work, if picking a pistol caliber rifle.
I really think more of a .30-30 though, as a serious rifle.

danza · « **Reply #16 on:** October 26, 2008, 02:24:22 PM »

imo...in a civil 'meltdown' scenerio, it'll work just fine...shot placement is, without a doubt, the most important factor.

just watch cowboy action when you get a chance...a lever can be operated nearly as fast as a semi-auto and with nearly as much accuracy; with practice and application. (kinda like having a .357/38 or 44mag/.44 AR)

too often it's forgotten/neglected/disregarded at how much "power" most centerfire cartridges have.

d_hiker · « **Reply #17 on:** November 05, 2008, 10:25:52 AM »

One real advantage I see, is that you shoot it. Plain and simple, you like the rifle and you practice. The rounds are cheap as you said, so you can afford more practice time.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2008, 05:35:29 PM »

Troll64 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2008, 03:05:04 PM »

I thought a lot about this awhile ago. I had a .357 revolver and the reloading gear already. I did my research and talked with people who actually hunted with one. There are many armchair hunters who frown on it as too small for deer size game, but the word I got from actual owners/hunters painted a whole different picture. I bought one. After the first of the year I will buy another... I sold both my 30-30's and my 9mm carbine. Watch your range and it works fine. I have to admit I have not tried Lil-gun powder yet. Seems to be worth a try...

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2008, 04:54:45 PM »

LilGun seems to be a fantastic match for the 357. (Works real good in 44 mag and hot 45 colts,too.) Been loading 158g FP/SP and 160g Cast Performance GC, LBT style with very good results. Only took 2 turkeys this year, but did real well on them. I did lose a little meat when I shot to low on the neck, but not much. Yes, in Montana you can use a rifle to hunt turkey. DP

jschance · « **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2008, 08:08:43 AM »

Check in the Deer Hunting forum under the pictures for this year's deer and you will see the results of the .357 out of a carbine. This was the second year I've hunted with the carbine, and the second year I've killed a deer with one shot (in both cases I shot a second 'insurance' round simply because of the rapid recovery capabilitys of the carbine. In neither case was the second round warrented).

If Lil' Gun powder wasn't invented for use in the .357 rifles, it sure should have been. I'm using a 180 grain gas checked rnfp cast bullet over a moderate charge of Lil' Gun and it chronographs (no guessing here) right at 1700 fps.

Don't know how it'll do against the body armored goblin hoards, but I'm pretty darn satisfied with it.

BBF · « **Reply #22 on:** December 17, 2008, 10:58:23 AM »

Without getting into enough or not enough power, I do have and did have a number of Marlins in different calibers, and as a southpaw I sure like them.

However for your specific application I would get a Rem 760(7600) carbine in 30-06 or have something in similar caliber( 308) cut down to minimum legal length. You can cycle a pump at least as fast as a lever. Ammo can be loaded from standard levels to lower for fast recovery time.

FMJ bullets are available and you can get after market 10 round magazines for them that are even legal in my country unless you attach it to an Auto Banger.
When the situation gets close, white knuckles turn to utter panic, a Defender type 12 gauge is hard to beat

SharonAnne · « **Reply #23 on:** December 17, 2008, 03:15:36 PM »

my observation of remington pump and autoloading hunting rifles that are used in 3 gun matches is, after about 5 fast shots it gets hot. Add in a 10 round mag and you are asking for the gun to lock up tight. I would not recommend either as a fighting gun. I think that is what you are alluding to mentioning 'as fast as a lever' and 10rd mags. Funny thing is, those shooting the rem pump/autos with 10 rd mags were from Ontario, Canada

BBF · « **Reply #24 on:** December 18, 2008, 09:01:30 AM »

Sharon Anne:
See that is why I didn't think the Auto banger would be useable.
I can download for the pump to levels still exceeding the 357 by a large margin and keep the barrel cool for a longer time. I confess never having shot a whole bunch of rounds out of my pump to see how long it would take to jam so I can't tell.
Instead of an alternative, how about having two of them ready

I hope those guys shooting those Auto bangers with 10 round magazines were not in Canada.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #25 on:** December 18, 2008, 02:45:05 PM »

they were in Michigan but also used them in Canada. It was in the early 80s before the Canadian government got REALLY stupid. I got smart and left in '77. BTW the pumps did not fare any better than the autoloaders.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #26 on:** December 18, 2008, 03:27:22 PM »

i shot my rem 742 against some ar-15s
just for fun

two 10 round clips into the match my gun locked up

i will take my ar next time

my lever guns would have scored better

BBF · « **Reply #27 on:** December 19, 2008, 05:04:53 AM »

A relative of mine, living in the US has a M-1 Carbine for just such a case with the big magazines. I presume that gun won't lock up.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #28 on:** December 19, 2008, 07:27:38 AM »

The M1 carbine was designed as a fighting tool. I am NOT familiar with it, never having handled one. With it being used in WWII, Korea and Vietnam I have never heard of an overheating problem.