Author Topic: Dot Sights (Read 1057 times)

Savage · « **on:** August 03, 2008, 09:48:42 AM »

Sometime back I bought a multiple reticule holo type red dot sight. I found the "Circle Dot" reticule worked really good for falling plates. The problem is, on sunny days the reticule washes out so badly that it is unusable on the white plates. Is this typical of this type of sight, or just a problem with some brands of sights. I switched back to my 40mm tube BSA red dot, and it is quite visible under the same conditions. I want to go back to the open "Holo" type dot sight with multiple reticule's, buy need one I can see in all lighting conditions. Anyone with any experience with these sights that can make a recommendation on a specific sight that will work for me?
Savage

S.B. · « **Reply #1 on:** August 04, 2008, 05:59:51 PM »

Doesn't the sight you bought have a reostat, to adjust the brightness?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 05, 2008, 01:08:29 AM »

Eotech makes a great sight, although it does not have multiple reticule's, it has the circle with the dot in it. I have used it on very bright days. I just turn up the brightness. I found the Eotech to be much better than any of the other Holo sights out there.

If the Military and Law Enforcement can use it in all condition, you should not have a problem.

Savage · « **Reply #3 on:** August 05, 2008, 02:41:59 AM »

Quote from: S.B. on August 04, 2008, 05:59:51 PM

Doesn't the sight you bought have a reostat, to adjust the brightness?

So that's what that thingy does!!!!

Wouldn't mind having an eotech. I could probably live with the dot only, just a little pricey for a rimfire plate gun.

Savage

hoggunner · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2008, 02:33:10 PM »

I use a bushnel holo site and love it it sits on my 44 mag and never has lost a zero. I belive that eotec makes this site for bushnell but its $100 bucks cheaper than eotec. best $250 i spent. you can adjust it way down and way up.

Savage · « **Reply #5 on:** August 05, 2008, 02:54:45 PM »

hoggunner,
Does your sight have the "Circle Dot" reticle, or just the dot? And does yours use the "N" battery or the "AA"? I have considered one of these sights, just haven't gotten my hands on one to try it out. Thanks for the reply.
Savage

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2008, 05:07:28 PM »

The Bushnell Holo sight I had, had the "Circle Dot" reticle. The same as the EOtech I have.
Bushnell and EOtech make the sights so you can either order one with the N battery, or get one with the AA batteries.
Both my EOtech and Bushnell use AA batteries.

The reason I no longer have my Bushnell is, I blew out the "Circle Dot" reticle. I called EOtech and ask them if the model I was going to order will hold up to a 500 Mag, and the guy told me, it was not a problem at all. It is installed on my custom 510 GNR Encore pistol barrel. The 510 GNR is a short 500 Linebaugh.

Savage · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2008, 03:37:14 AM »

Thanks for the info, Redhawk1. I'm tempted to give the Bushnell a try. It should hold up to the brutal recoil of my MKll Ruger!!

Savage

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2008, 10:31:46 AM »

I think you will be OK...

SharonAnne · « **Reply #9 on:** August 14, 2008, 11:06:29 PM »

Savage. You might be surprised. My shooting buddy Machelle put a Trijicon Reflex sight on her 4" 686+ that she used for ICORE and shot .38 specials in. It would not hold zero so she exchanged it for a new one. It too would not hold zero. These sights were bought through a reputable dealer, Dillon Precision retail store in Scottsdale, AZ. We were told there was something peculiar about the recoil of the .38special and Trijicon was aware of the problem. It was recommended that she purchase a different sight. She put an Eotech on it and had no further sight problems. We have local shooters with the same Trijicon Reflex on AR 15s for day/night sights and they never have problems.

Air rifles are notorious for killing scopes. Just because one holds up to a .500 linebaugh does not mean it will hold up to a .38.

It is weird but true. Since you are going TO an Eotech you should do just fine.

williamlayton · « **Reply #10 on:** August 16, 2008, 01:40:25 AM »

SA
I am not the owner of any scope. they just don't serve any purpose in my world.
I am wondering what the problems are that are being confronted by the recoil of a .38 or air rifle ?
Is it vibration or the pitch of the vibration / You may not know but I am curious.
Blessings

S.B. · « **Reply #11 on:** August 16, 2008, 01:53:18 AM »

I'm curious also? I can understand having problems with S&W 500s and other heavy recoiling calibers but, air rifles and the .38 specials are very light recoiling calibers, compared.

Savage · « **Reply #12 on:** August 16, 2008, 02:17:27 AM »

With air rifles the spring piston travel creates a rearward recoil impulse and it's sudden stop when it reaches the end of it's forward travel creates a violent whiplash effect. Really hard on scopes. As to why the recoil impulse of the .38 would be hard on scopes, I have no idea!
Savage

S.B. · « **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2008, 02:39:11 AM »

So, your saying the recoil impulse of air rifles is less than magnum handguns but, because it's in a differnet direction it tears up red dot scopes? I can't buy this theory.

Savage · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2008, 09:20:44 AM »

Quote from: S.B. on August 16, 2008, 02:39:11 AM

So, your saying the recoil impulse of air rifles is less than magnum handguns but, because it's in a differnet direction it tears up red dot scopes? I can't buy this theory.

Not selling a theory, just stating a fact. The rapid acceleration of the spring piston and the abrupt stop have been know to damage scopes. I'm referring to traditional scopes here, not necessarily red dots. Scopes for air rifles have to be built to withstand bidirectional recoil.
Savage

Savage · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2008, 09:44:58 AM »

Did a quick search. This will clarify what I was trying to say.

http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotRifleAirGunScopes.htm

Savage

SharonAnne · « **Reply #16 on:** August 16, 2008, 09:53:26 AM »

the air rifle and 38 special recoils are not greater but they are different. with the air rifle it may also have to do with the spring vibration after discharge. with the .38sp I have no idea. It IS counter intuitive. None of the locals with the Trijicon Reflex on AR15s have had problems. I really do not know. We were told by the sales person at the Dillon Precision retail store that Trijicon was aware of the problem and exchanged or refunded all with no argument. This WAS about 7 years ago. We were preparing for the 2001 IRC. It may no longer be a problem.

Savage, I just read that link. Thank you!

S.B. · « **Reply #17 on:** August 16, 2008, 02:51:25 PM »

Just today, we (my wife and I along with other volenteers)ran the IDNR BB gun tent at the Illinois State Fair and shot, literally, thousands of shots with red dot sights on the rifles, with no failures!!!
You people are going to have to do a lot of convincing, for me to believe this.

Savage · « **Reply #18 on:** August 16, 2008, 03:07:26 PM »

Well SB, really not important to me what you believe. This forum is for the exchange of information. When I state an opinion I make it clear that's what it is. It's not just my opinion that the air rifle recoil impulse is hard on some scopes, it has been well documented. If you had read the link you would have known that MOST scopes are now made to withstand the recoil impulse of the air rifle. There is no denying that the recoil is different, and requires consideration in the manufacture of scopes. I would think that the red dots are the least fragile of the optical sights.
Savage
edit: A "BB" gun might not have much of a problem with any sight. In the article I posted the link to, it states that the problem is more common with air rifles that reach the 1000+ fps mark

williamlayton · « **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2008, 12:28:36 AM »

Thanks for the post.
Verrrryy interesting.
Recoil is a very interesting subject matter in itself. There is recoil in a sling shot---the laws of physics apply here.
Blessings

coyotejoe · « **Reply #20 on:** August 17, 2008, 03:34:23 AM »

I'm surprised at the reaction here, I thought everyone knew that spring piston air rifles rattle the tar out of a scope. A similar situation exists with autoloaders, especially light weight autos like the M1 carbine. Mounting a reflex sight on the slide of an auto pistol is also a test of the sight since it accelerates rearward, slams to a stop, accelerates forward and slams to a stop. Even all steel adjustable sights will sometimes fail under that repeated back and forth pounding.
Pneumatic and CO2 guns of course have no recoil and even very cheap scopes will do OK on those. I've often seen a thirty dollar Daisy pump-up with a ten dollar scope shoot smaller groups than a three-hundred dollar magnum spring-air gun with a hundred dollar scope.

williamlayton · « **Reply #21 on:** August 18, 2008, 08:41:10 AM »

Well, you don't know what you don't know until it is discussed---and---you don't know what another doesn't know until it is discussed.
It is like the discussion going on now about bore sighting each cylinder of a revolver. I never even thought about it or considered it.
Blessings

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 18, 2008, 11:04:11 AM »

S.B. it is a fact that Air rifles will tear up standard rifle scopes, they are made differently than Air Rifle scopes, even a Leupold rifle scope will get torn up by the backward recoil of the Air rifles. I don't know about the red-dots, but I know for a fact about rifle scopes. If you doubt it, just call some of the rifle scope makers.