OK, for the guys on the .243 thread that want to know about the ER Shaw Rifles..

[kyelkhunter3006]

I read an short article in GUNS, I think it was.  I'd heard back during the SHOT show that ER Shaw was coming out with a line of semi-custom guns.  They're called the Mark VII rifle.  The test gun in the article was a .308 and shot very well indeed.  It was stainless with a stainless helical fluted barrel, not sure of the contour, but it was on the stout side, in a laminated stock.  Looked good.  Man, I wish I'd bought that issue, I'll try to find it at the store tomorrow.

They are going to be based on the Savage 110 series Accu-trigger actions. 
Savage is marking the actions as ER Shaw Mk VII. 
Three stock types:  laminate, walnut, and synthetic (injection molded), all are the classic style straight butt with a cheek piece.  Looks like the standard classic from Boyd's to me. 
Four finish options. 
Two types of steel.
Regular, straight fluted, or helical fluted barrels at your specified contour and length. 
76 standard chamberings including several wildcats and old favorites, but if what you want isn't on the list, you should call them.

Base price is $625     I figure that's probably a blued barreled action with a regular blued barrel and the synthetic stock.

Now here's the kicker:  The actions DO NOT USE THE SAVAGE BARREL NUT.      That's right, they fit the barrels in the traditional manner with no nut.  It really streamlines the barreled action and looks really good.   

They don't have the information about the rifle on the website as of yet, but if you contact the sales dept., they'll send you a brochure about the rifle and another about there barrels.  I got the info 2 days after I emailed them.

I'm already in the doghouse for buying several scopes in the past two weeks, a new T/C Omega about a month ago, and a boat (future project) two months ago.  I figure, she's already pissed off, so she can't get any more angry if I buy a custom gun, right?   

[MGMorden]

$625 certainly sounds like a pretty reasonable starting price.  I'd probably just want the basic model with some nicer wood on it.  I'd also assume, since it is a semi-custom, that you could pick your caliber out of all that they have available currently - that would make this a VERY attractive way to get some rarer chamberings. 

I'll have to check it out once they are up for sale.  Lord knows I don't really need another gun, but that hasn't ever stopped me before .

[AtlLaw]

I just read an article on them in the last issue of Rifle magazine.  Pretty impressive.  But then I've always been impressed with the Savage bolt gun.  Especially since I see some bench rest shooters using rifles built on the Savavge action.  Strange enough, the only thing I don't like about them is the "Savavge" on the bolt.  Really tacky.

I to was supprised at the list price.  seemed downright reasonable, especially when you start thinking about all the different calibers it's offered in!  But, with 3 full safes, my spousal unit's understanding is growing thin.  It would have to be an impulse buy in a caliber I just found out I couldn't live without!   

[R.W.Dale]

Now here's the kicker:  The actions DO NOT USE THE SAVAGE BARREL NUT.   Shocked Shocked  That's right, they fit the barrels in the traditional manner with no nut.  It really streamlines the barreled action and looks really good.   Wink

 That would be a kicker for me, Why in the world would you buy a savage without a bbl nut?That would preclude any of the advantages the savage action offered in terms of owner customization. Why is it people feel that every bolt rifle has to look like a rem700

 The prices aren't that reasonable considering you can buy just about any er-shaw bbl in any caliber and any profile they chamber for about $230

[MGMorden]

The prices aren't that reasonable considering you can buy just about any er-shaw bbl in any caliber and any profile they chamber for about $230

There's no rifle attached to those barrels though.  In order to have a working rifle, you're going to have to provide an action.  A used Savage that you plan on just tossing the barrel on will run $250-300.  A military Mauser can be bought and converted to sporter config for about $175 - you can find a basic stock for it for around $75 so we're back at $250.

So $250, plus the $230 that you mention, PLUS another $90 to blue it (assuming you're not going stainless), and we're up to around $570 - the Mauser likely hasn't had any of the needed tuning work done (lapping lug, squaring bolt face, etc), and the Savage, being used, may have a stock in bad shape.  If you add in that work or a replacement stock, then you're now at parity with the ER Shaw offering  not to mention sometimes the "homegrown sporters" sometimes have quirks like feeding issues and such that require even more gunsmith trips to iron out (I've got several such sporters and love them, but there can be issues).

I mean, if you're on a tight budget you certainly CAN get what you're looking for cheaper (heck if it's something common that an Stevens 200 will be much cheaper), but for a fully assembled and built rifle in your choice of that wide of an array of offerings, it's certainly not too bad. 

[R.W.Dale]

Who in the world would waste perfectly good money sporterizing an ancient clapped out Mauser these days. Kinda reminds me of the "if you're gonna eat $5" quiznos ads
 

Here's what ya do, I've done this with three different rifles now
 You buy a NEW Stevens 200 for $300 in 7mm-08

remove and sell the 7mm-08 bbl for $70

buy er-shaw bbl for $230

or better yet skip the er-shaw and go SHILEN for $300
 My er-shaw barreled 243 savage is nowhere near as accurate as my Shilen or even my A&B barreled stevens 200's


If you want a better stock the factory stevens 200 units can be sold for $50 on flea-bay

 For $460 you have a blued synthetic rifle in the same custom chambering with a bbl nut so you can change to something different later for a good deal cheaper than the base model er-shaw "custom" Add a really nice aftermarket stock and you're on par in terms of price with the base model ER-Shaw by doing the work yourself

 I

 Trust me you ain't getting the laminated and fluted model for $630

[MGMorden]

Who in the world would waste perfectly good money sporterizing a Mauser these days. Kinda reminds me of the "if you're gonna eat $5" quiznos ads

I've done it several times actually, and have always been satisfied when finished.  Cost wise, the money put in isn't bad, and there's nothing cheap on them.  No plastic, or even aluminum.  My Mausers are all accurate, look just as good as a factory rifle, and aren't the cookie cutter versions of the same rifle that everyone else is buying.  I think the aversion these days is more just an "Ew, Mauser." reaction than actually looking at the rifles for what they are.

Here's what ya do, I've done this with three different rifles now
 You buy a Stevens 200 for $300 in 7mm-08

remove and sell the 7mm-08 bbl for $70

buy er-shaw bbl for $230

or better yet skip the er-shaw and go SHILEN for $300
 My er-shaw barreled 243 savage is nowhere near as accurate as my Shilen or even my A&B barreled stevens 200's

If you've already done 3 then I assume that you're already equipped, but your average person is either going to have to buy headspace gauges, a barrel vice, and a barrel nut wrench, or, pay someone to fit the barrel.  Then, if you're me (or other anti-synethtics, you're going to have to sell the synthetic stock and replace it with a wooden one, and you'll likely end up paying more than the price difference would have been between just ordering the wooden stock in the first place.  I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say that the ER Shaw versions PROBABLY include metal triggerguard and mag follower as well - that's another $40-50 to change those out on the Stevens or a base model Savage.

And in the end, you're still comparing a project to a finished rifle (aka apples and oranges).  Compare instead to a new Ruger, CZ, Tikka, etc, and the price looks very reasonable indeed.

[R.W.Dale]

If you've already done 3 then I assume that you're already equipped, but your average person is either going to have to buy headspace gauges, a barrel vice, and a barrel nut wrench, or, pay someone to fit the barrel.

It's not quite as intimidating as it sounds. With proper technique I've been able to get along with only the $30 wrench, headspace gauges are recommended although I have used brass resized in my dies to set up a minimum headspace. I've also rented gauge sets from 4dproducts for less than $10

 The problem with mausers is in order the get one decent enough to want to work on you have to destroy a collectors item that is of much more value in unmodified condition.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2328758/page/1

according to Seafire who spoke the the er-shaw rep
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2328758/page/1

Without a Stock.. just a barreled action..

Cost: $595.00 with $24.00 shipping to anywhere in the lower 48...

I can get an inletted Boyds stock in Grey or Brown for this rig.. say in their varmint profile..

about $100.00 + shipping on an unfinished stock..

about $180.00 finished and ready to go..

the JRS profile finished is about $150.00

their catalog web address:

[MGMorden]

The problem with mausers is in order the get one decent enough to want to work on you have to destroy a collectors item that is of much more value in unmodified condition.

Depends on how you look at it really.  If you're morally opposed to destroying a Mauser, then there are lots of them out there that have already been messed with to some degree or another.  I like picking these up actually as several have already had some of the needed work done, and you start out with that out of the way and at a deal.

Secondly, I'm a bit wary of the collector's value of a lot of the military surplus items.  Many people automatically assign "collector's value" simply because they were a military issue rifle.  When you look at rarity and price though, they're not really deserving of the "collectible" moniker.  Think of the rarity of them.  SMLE, Mauser, Mosin Nagant, etc.  A metric bazillion of each were made.  Compare that to certain civilian/sporting rifles and you'll find the latter to be much more rare.  How many times more common are any of those compared to say a Marlin MR-7?  Or a Remington 722?   Now consider price: most milsurps are under $100.  The examples that most people list as being overly "valuable" break maybe a few hundred $$$.  So the most rare and "collectible" versions of these guns make it up to the value of any random used Remington 700.

All in all, given the low price and how common they are, I have no qualms about using one as a sporter base.  Besides - without some people chopping a few of them up, they'll never go any higher than the $50-75 mark anyways.  In some way it takes some people sporterizing to drive the value up a bit .

[kyelkhunter3006]

Here's what Chris is sales at ER sent me today:  I specified that I wanted a bit stouter barrel, something around .700" or so at the muzzle.  Caliber .260 or 6.5x55.

Good morning
The cost for a 4140 chrome moly steel receiver with a polished blue finish and a 416 stainless steel barrel with straight fluting and a syn stock would be $775.00 plus shipping to your ffl dealer. The choice of contours would be the #2.5 or the #3 both will work in the syn stock we offer with the Mark VII, if you look in the ER Shaw catalog I sent you there is a chart of all of the contours we offer and you can see their different dimensions. The #3.5 and the #5 both require that the customer order the stock separate from whichever mfg they would like. At this point in time we do not have a stock for those two contours in house. The turnaround time on the mfg and assembly of the mark VII is between 4 and 6 months. This is a hand assembled bbl action, when your ready to order just give a call or drop me an e-mail and I can call you. Payment on the Mark VII is required prior to the order being submitted for production. I hope this info also helps
Thanks
Chris

So for $800 bucks I can get a rifle chambered in the round I want, with the barrel and finish I want, and KNOW that it's going to shoot, with a great trigger that's easy for me to adjust. 

Or, for $900 and some change (maybe more or less, depending), I can get a Remington 700 CDL-SF in .260 that has a barrel that's lighter than I want, a decent trigger that Remington loves to use as an excuse to void the warranty on the gun when you adjust it (yeah, that's why they put a tamper seal on the adjustment screws), that MIGHT shoot good (yeah there are a lot of stories about how great Remington's shoot, and there are just as many horror stories too) with a nice walnut stock that I'll have to replace with a synthetic one, adding to the cost.

As for the barrel nut, yep, if you want to change barrels a lot, then it's useful for easy fitting and headspacing.  But, if I wanted to change barrels alot, I'd just get another Encore.  Or maybe a Blaser (yeah, right, sorry, too much $$$).

The wait time kind of sucks, but most work that I've sent out and had done by anyone takes at least 6-8 weeks, if not longer.  Most times it was 12 weeks or more.

[AtlLaw]

I agree with you KY; the price isn't to out of line.  The hand assembly got my attention and I hope the process will be as good as the conotation!

As an aside, I think y'all are seriously underestimating the cost of bringing a military action up to par with the currently available factory rifles.  Go to Shaw's site and build your barrel.  Use the following to determine your end cost for each completed barreled action.

The first is a Swede action (love them Swedes!) with a Lilja barrel in 6.5x55 that was somebody's unfinished project.  Got it for $150.  It is drilled and tapped, and and has an after market trigger installed.  I have plans to send it to Shaw for a 7x57 Bbl. fitted and headspaced and enough action work, including a new bolt handle, done to make it comparable to a sporting rifle action, and a reblue.

Compare that with my other project, a M7 now in 260 that I paid $275 for last year.  I want a 250 Savage.  I'll send the M7 to Shaw for the barrel, fitted and headspaced, and a reblue.

Compare the end price of the two finished products, barreled actions ready to drop in a stock.  Which is a better value to you?

[MGMorden]

I agree with you KY; the price isn't to out of line.  The hand assembly got my attention and I hope the process will be as good as the conotation!

As an aside, I think y'all are seriously underestimating the cost of bringing a military action up to par with the currently available factory rifles.

That all depends on how thrifty you are .

My last "involved" sporter project was built on a Turkish Mauser M38 action.  I got the rifle for $40.  It was missing the floorplate, mag follower, and mag spring and that costed around $20 to get (also was missing a safety but that was to be replaced anyways.  The action was dirty, but sound (no pitting or anything).  A Dayton Traister safety cost me $25, plus $35 for a bent bolt (bought a pre-bent off of Ebay - getting the included one bent would have costed more and wasn't necessary since it was going to be rebarreled anyways).  Also spent $25 on a Bold adjustable trigger for the action.  Sent it to a gunsmith over the internet (can't remember his name - his intials are RMS and he went by "mauserhouser" on Ebay) to have a new 24" Adams and Bennet barrel in .257 Roberts fitted, the handguard retainer removed, and the rifle drilled and tapped.  That was $190 total.  I then had the gun blued by another gunsmith for $100. 

So, 40+20+25+35+25+190+100 = $435 final cost for my barreled action, ready for stock.  The barrel was brand new and the rest of the gun looked it (everything was freshley polished and blued so it looked great).  For the stock I picked up a Boyds JRS Laminate second for $30.  I can shoot 0.75" or better 100 yard groups with this rifle consistently, and it doesn't have a single piece of plastic on it (if it weren't for the trigger I could claim the same about aluminum - but aside from the aftermarket trigger the rest is all steel).

I'm more than satisfied with the rifle, with the exception of the stock.  Boyd's did a piss-poor job of both designing and inletting this stock - the fit is sloppy with gaps in too many places, and the comb is too high, so the cocking piece beats it up when the bolt is pulled back.  So I've put in an order for a new stock with Richards Microfit that I'm hoping I'll like better.  Got a Modern Classic sporter in Semi-fancy Myrtle (I love the look of myrtle stocks.  I'll never understand why they're not more popular).  Wait time on it though is about 8 weeks.  I ordered about a month ago so I should be halfway to my new stock .

Now, i'll admit, that if you can find a good Savage action that you can rebarrel at home, then the pre-blued barrels by Adams and Bennet can probably bring you in cheaper, but you can't find those for every caliber (they used to make a 6.5x55 one but sadly I don't see it listed anymore).  With a dealer discount you can get those for $115 each.

[AtlLaw]

Boyd's did a piss-poor job of both designing and inletting this stock - the fit is sloppy with gaps in too many places, and the comb is too high, so the cocking piece beats it up when the bolt is pulled back.

And their customer service ain't that great either!     I've emailed them a few times and never had the curtosy of a response!  Forcrying out loud I want to buy 2 stocks from them with decent wood in the style they make for Remington.  I guess they're not real hungry...   

Do you have a choice of stock styles from Shaw?  I only use walnut... and a fine grade thereof at that!   

So I've put in an order for a new stock with Richards Microfit that I'm hoping I'll like better.

I need to try them.

[R.W.Dale]

richards microfit makes a nice stock in some outstanding wood and style choices, But they require a goodly bit of finishing by the buyer. I've bought two and have been pleased with both.

[CapoWard]

Boyd's did a piss-poor job of both designing and inletting this stock - the fit is sloppy with gaps in too many places, and the comb is too high, so the cocking piece beats it up when the bolt is pulled back.

And their customer service ain't that great either!     I've emailed them a few times and never had the curtosy of a response!  Forcrying out loud I want to buy 2 stocks from them with decent wood in the style they make for Remington.  I guess they're not real hungry...   

Do you have a choice of stock styles from Shaw?  I only use walnut... and a fine grade thereof at that!   

So I've put in an order for a new stock with Richards Microfit that I'm hoping I'll like better.

I need to try them.

If you’re using a Remington M7 or M700 barreled action vis-à-vis just using a Remington’ style of stock you might want to try S&K Gunstocks’ walnut laminated stock, here’s a link to their website:

http://www.sandkgunstocks.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SKG&Category_Code=REM_RS

I don’t own a Remington or Ruger so can’t use their services currently.

Jim

[drdougrx]

This is timely!!!

I have a ruger ultra lite in 243 that is glass bedded and shoots like crap.  I'm having Shaw put a 20", #1.5, blue, fluted barrel on it.  I'll have to get another factory ultra lite stock because I cracked the original.  I expect the price for the new barrel, fitted to the action, etc, is about $450.  Looking forward to it.

[AtlLaw]

If you’re using a Remington M7 or M700 barreled action vis-à-vis just using a Remington’ style of stock you might want to try S&K Gunstocks’ walnut laminated stock, here’s a link to their website:

http://www.sandkgunstocks.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SKG&Category_Code=REM_RS

Thanks!  Unfortunately the filters on my office system won't let me open any website that has anything to bdo with weapons and my system at home is down so I may be asking you for the link again sometime!