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Offline woodsdweller

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14 year old daughter
« on: August 06, 2008, 08:03:16 AM »
fellas my daughter will be deer hunting this fall and i want to get her a new gun. i am not use to singles in larger calibers but thought with the price and all i would look in to one. she is about 5' 4" tall and around 110#. she shoots a .20GA quite well and has harvested 2 spring toms w/a auto 3.5. 12GA understanding the excitement over comes alot of recoil. i want something comfortable for her to shoot. i have a ultra in a 22 mag but its a bit bulky and heavy. so something a bit trimmer than that. we can shoot up to 200yards. i am open to suggestions on caliber and model.
thanks in advance.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2008, 08:16:32 AM »
The .30-30 is about the only caliber I'd consider.
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Offline Gene R

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2008, 08:26:24 AM »
There are several good calibers that would suit your/her needs.
.243
7mm-08
223 (not recommended unless very confident of bullet placement)
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 08:46:34 AM »
The .243 is the most problematic Handi Rifle caliber.  I sold my barrel.
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Offline Steve P

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2008, 09:05:38 AM »
Check your local Wal-Mart store and request they pull out their handy-dandy ordering book.  Find an H&R synthetic stock  or camo rifle in .243, 7mm-08, 30-30, or .308.  Pick up some of the Remington or Hornady low-recoil loads and get her a few practice sessions.  Once she gets in the groove and is hitting the target, have her try a few hunting loads.  243-7mm any 100-120 grain loads will work fine for deer.  30-30/308 try the 150s.  If you reload, you can load up some lighter bullets with less recoil.  Any of these will safe and sanely take a deer to 200.

Good luck and I hope she enjoys it!

Steve

P.S.  If she is like my girls, the fun stops when the field dressing begins.  You may want to address this issue up front.  I should have and didn't.  My girls wont hunt now because of the field dressing.  If I could do over, I would have them hike guns and stuff to the car while I did the chores and move the game animal.  Good Luck.
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Offline TribReady

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2008, 09:58:54 AM »
In a Handi, I'd also lean towards the .30-30 or 7-08, just to keep the recoil down.

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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2008, 10:12:49 AM »
Bud's Gunshop online has a .270 for $198. If she is gonna keep this and use it for life I'd go with that one. several companies make "reduced recoil" loads for the .270 she could use if you are worried the recoil would be too heavy for her right now.

You might also consider the tracker II in 20 GA or the ultra slug in 20 GA. Some of the sabot loads for 20 GA will match up pretty good against the 30-30 inside of 100 yds.
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2008, 10:13:33 AM »
.25-06 is another worth looking at.  I'm a big fan of .25's on deer and the recoil on it won't be too bad.  You'll not ever outgrow that rifle either.  It's good for long and short ranges and for every type of deer that one could think of.  
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2008, 11:27:40 AM »
Find some friends that have the calibers your interested and get your daughter to shoot them some so you can see how she does.

Some of the cheerleaders at the high school I teach at shoot 30-06 and 3 1/4 magnum 12 ga hunting loads. You might be surprised what she can handle.
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Offline 9x19

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2008, 11:50:17 AM »
I'd trust my 7.62x39mm Handi out to 200 yards, but only with good shot placement.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2008, 12:09:03 PM »
7mm08, or a .308 with reduced recoil loads.  30-30 has no suitiable range.  The case is not strong enough to raise the load to get decent range either.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2008, 12:19:14 PM »
One of the things lots of people forget about the 30-30 is that its most limited by the lousy factory loads available for it. SD's in the 0.1 range would limit just about anything. Hornady Lever Revolutions are fairly good out to 150 yds on whitetails, and in a handload for a Handi single shot you can load any .308 bullet profile you want without the worry of chain firing in a tube mag that keeps factories form loading pointed profiles in 30-30.

All that being said I still wouldn't buy her a 30-30.  If she wants to keep it for a long time I vote .270.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2008, 12:24:55 PM »
If you are going to choose any of the rimless cartridges, I'd get a bolt action.  The new Marlin bolt action is really inexpensive, and you won't have to play with it to get it to shoot well.  I love NEF products, but they don't handle rimless cartridges very well IMO.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline TribReady

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2008, 12:31:13 PM »
Swampman raises a good point on getting a new bolt action (Marlin or Savage).  She'll get a bit more weight to absorb the recoil. A .270 load from a Handi could be pretty tough on her   :'(
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2008, 03:04:45 PM »
I tend to agree with swamp on this one. I too prefer rimmed cartridges for the Handi. They just seem better suited for the break action.

 A number of good calibers have been suggested. This is going to require the purchase of the entire gun, no? Are you a hand-loader? Will this be something she will use exclusively? I mean its gonna be here gun or yours and hers. I have a couple of reasons I ask.

Of the top of my head if your not a hand loader I like the 30-30 or 45-70. If you are the 45-70 again or the 308 win may be even better.

OH yea, don't worry about or put much weight on the 30-30 naysayers. If the 30 WCF didn't work it so well it wouldn't be a top seller for over 100 years... We are a fickle lot and don't buy what don't work for very long... You do your part and the Lil 30 will keep your freezer full time and time again.

CW
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Offline 30-06man

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2008, 03:15:39 PM »
If you are going to go with the Marlin you might also consider Savage 110. If she can handle a 12ga 3.5 she can handle a 308 or even a 30-06. The light loads I hear are good out to 200 yards.
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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2008, 03:36:04 PM »
I've got 243, 7mm-08, 25-06, 30-30 as well as 280.  For a daughter to use it will be tough to beat the 7mm-08.  It does the same thing the old 7x57 mauser does, which is perform much better than many think it will.  With the bullets that are available now, she could use it the rest of her life in USA and do well.  That is just my opinion, but I have 3 daughters and 4 boys that will get a 25 caliber or a 7mm which ever they prefer.  DP
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Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline Tencubed

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2008, 04:32:14 PM »
Our daughter was a little rascal at age 12 when she started shooting a 30-30 for coyotes, deer and bear.  Never had a problem with recoil and it did a good job of stopping what she was shooting at.  She still has that rifle something over 30 years later and has taken a lot of game with it.  Model 94 Winchester.

Like CWLongshot I'm always surprised at how anemic the old 30-30 has recently become considering the number of game animals that have fallen to it. 

If you are set on a single shot I would go for a rimmed cartridge if for no other reason than they have sort of a handle on the back that is nice when fingers are really cold.  If you opt for a bolt gun I would look closely at the 308 or 7MM-08 as has been suggested.  There are lighter loads available for the 308 that would make practice and first hunts more pleasurable.  If you go with a lever gun or single shot, which I consider to be a couple of the safer guns for youngsters as you can always see where the hammer position is, then you might also consider the 357 or 44 Mag pistol rounds.  They are both very effective deer stoppers at shorter ranges, say out to a hundred yards.  The 30-30 will reach out to the 200 yards you mentioned and a bit farther if you know the rifle as you should to take it afield.  Been there, done that and ate the venison and bear involved.

Much depends on what is comfortable for you daughter to shoot and what she likes the looks of.  Don't laugh about that, it's amazing how many folks shoot a particular gun or round because they like the way it looks to them.
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Offline kenbev

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2008, 01:47:50 AM »
I still like the 243. I have had it for several years and my daughter has hunted with it since she was big enough to carry it. I have never had any trouble with it. I have all of the Handi calibers and prefer the 30-30, 7mm-08, and 308 along with the 243 for young hunters. MY wife uses the 45LC....
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Offline FLNT4EVR

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2008, 04:18:07 AM »
I would start her with the 30-30 in a Handy. As she grows in the shooting sports other barrels can be added according to her needs and preferences.
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Offline BBF

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2008, 09:33:05 AM »
Add my vote for the 30-30 in a Handi, If you are a handloader or have access to somebody, the 30-30 with SSP bullets reaches out to 200 with ease.
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Offline sooter

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2008, 03:51:03 PM »
My daughter just turned 13 last week and shoots a 30-30 handy rifle with speers 150 grain grand slam factory ammunition. She has shot her deer 4 years in a row now and last year she shot a 400 pound cow elk with one shot that collapsed after taking just 2 steps. Needless to say i was one proud dad. I also put a sorbathane cheek piece on the stock to keep her from getting a bruised cheek and to put her head in better alignment with the scope.

sooter
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Offline 9x19

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2008, 05:18:50 PM »
Quote from: kevinsmith5 on August 06, 2008, 12:19:14 PM
One of the things lots of people forget about the 30-30 is that its most limited by the lousy factory loads available for it. SD's in the 0.1 range would limit just about anything. Hornady Lever Revolutions are fairly good out to 150 yds on whitetails, and in a handload for a Handi single shot you can load any .308 bullet profile you want without the worry of chain firing in a tube mag that keeps factories form loading pointed profiles in 30-30.


Too true... I have a Springfield 840 (progenitor of the Savage 340) bolt action .30/30 which I inherited from my Father in Law. It has a detachable box magazine which allows the use of spitzer bullets. My middle son used it with handloaded Hornady 125 JSPs (made for single shot pistols, so expansion at .30/30 velocities was more reliable than some of the thicker-jacketed .308 bullets) to take several deer. He has his own .308 Tikka now, so the 840 is back in the closet until someone else asks to borrow a "deer-rifle".
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Offline woodsdweller

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2008, 05:14:45 AM »
yes i do re load. i do 7-08,30-30, 25-06, 243,and other larger cals. you have me wondering about a cheaper bolt gun?
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Offline lindmejm

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2008, 07:16:33 AM »
I work with a group that teaches youth (14 yrs to 18 yrs) hunting and fishing.  The cartridges they like the most for hunting/target are in order 38-55 Win, 357Mag, 444 Marlin (265gr @ 1700 - 1800fps), and a small number like the 45/70 (350gr @ 1600fps).  I've  loaded the 308 and 30-06 with 130gr spitzer to roughly 30-30 velocity and most of them prefer the straigth wall catridges.  I've had a few of the older youth that liked the 270 win for longer range hunts (200 yds+), I have Ruger M77 they use.  My feeling is it's the sound of a crack vs boom, the recoil doesn't seem to be a big an issue.    All the youth use 12 and 20 gauges for trap shooting and hunting.  The 38-55 is the biggest surprise, no matter how much ammo I bring for target practice it's never enough.  The kids that are recoil sensitive always  go for the 357Mag, they prefer it to a 222Remington (a Rem 788 and an old BSA): this is what started me thinking the sound might be the issue since the 222rem no recoil.  They always wear eye and hearing protection, but there is still a difference in the report.   

Regards,  John.               
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2008, 03:46:22 PM »
That's a really good point John. Most of us who have been shooting for years and years wouldn't even think of that. Especially in this world of fancy electronic ear muffs. Self included, I never even thought about the noise...

Well, as a re-loader the sky is the limit, you can load about any caliber to sufficient recoil level to fit the bill.

CW
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2008, 04:11:35 AM »
Congrats on showing your daughter the joys of hunting. I just wished more parents would do what you are doing.

I too recommend getting here the best in the ear electronic hearing protection you can afford her. There is nothing worse than seeing the effects of our sport on our children hearing test.Many folks cheat at this and think that 1 shot or 2 in the field won't hurt because they have done it before,but they are dead wrong.My hearing is permanently damaged because of this,and I pray you take these words to heart and spare no expense at protecting her hearing.

Caliber choices for her is open to a-lot more than just rimmed cartridges,since she has been successful with her other guns.Since you reload,you have your choice of all of the calibers available to you.Each have their own merits and fans as you can tell. Since your suggesting a 200 yard max shot,I can assume you already know your area and are making plans accordingly.If not,then some serious planning and scouting is in order.

Personal choices of mine for anyone that can handle the recoil of a 12ga.auto even in the rush of excitement are the 25-06 and the 270,with the 280 not far behind. I've had more fun and luck with these 3 in the Handi rifle over all others,save for my custom 338-06 A-Square W.York built for me.

Since you are a re loader,you already have at your disposal the reloading data for each and if you don't there are plenty of sources available here for what has usually been the best with both factory loads and reloads.Trying several of each is usually the best way to find out what works best for both the shooter and rifle,and you will need to dedicate that time to ensure her that it does.I have had great success using both factory and hand loads from my Handi's over the years and do hope your daughter shares the same luck as I have.

I might also suggest several dry runs during your scouting adventures,with her carrying her rifle (which ever it may be ) so that she builds up some extra strength and learns how to make it work for her. It will give you extra time to work out some of the little kinks that always seem to pop up on her opening day.

Make the rifle fit her in her hunting cloths.Nothing spells discomfort like a ill fitting rifle or shotgun. Get a shell holder for the butt stock and put some soft foam under it to take all of the face slap out of shooting it and to raise it so that she has a perfect clear and centered field of view thru her scope or even open sights if using them.Having a soft pad to snug her face into instead of a cold hard stock promotes the proper cheek weld and reduces flinching. Have...or install one yourself..a good recoil pad,at the lenght she needs for her hunting cloths.Remember,your fitting her,not yourself,and thinking she will grow into a too long of stock only makes things worse,not better. A few extra dollars ensuring that the rifle or shotgun fits the young person now, will net you and them a huge return on satisfaction and success,by removing the fear of it hurting them when pulling the trigger.

Good Luck

Mac



 
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Offline RWH24

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2008, 10:38:53 AM »
6.5X55
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Offline MS10point

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2008, 12:25:23 PM »
I love the 7mm-08. Thats what my son moved up to when he was 9. I have always thought that the recoil might be a little stiff for a child but last night I noticed that Remington has added a "reduced recoil load" for the 7mm-08. For me that would be a no brainer!
She could shoot that load first then move into the full load as she was ready.
TP
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 14 year old daughter
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2008, 01:08:08 PM »
She could do the same thing with a .308.
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