Author Topic: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer  (Read 1169 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline tn_junk

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (54)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 885
  • Gender: Male
  • Look to Him
Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« on: August 06, 2008, 03:42:24 PM »
Plan on hunting with my New Englander 12 later this year. Will be rabbit/quail hunting, but must use non-toxic shot.
Anybody have any suggestions?
Keep in mind that I am poor and not really interested in paying $179 for 7 lbs of heavi-shot.


thanks

alan
Common Sense Ain't Very Common

Deceased May 20, 2009.  RIP Alan we miss you.

Offline Cowpox

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 456
  • Gender: Male
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2008, 08:12:33 PM »
I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings tn, but outside of steel shot, there is no budget priced nontoxic shot I am aware of.  All the other metals range from over 10 bucks, to over 20 per pound. Here is a link where you can read up on the properties of each type.
                                           
                                    http://www.gameandfishmag.com/hunting/guns-shooting/gf_aa116802a/index.html

I have never been courageous enough to try steel in a muzzle loading shotgun.  I have used bismuth, but it's not cheap, and getting hard to find.   As for the others, most are actually harder than steel, with the exception of tungsten-matrix, but again, if you can find it, seven pounds runs about $100. My advice would be to forget the shotgun, and harass those bunnies with a small (.32 or .36) ml rifle. 
I rode with him,---------I got no complaints. ---------Cowpox

Offline tn_junk

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (54)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 885
  • Gender: Male
  • Look to Him
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2008, 04:13:57 AM »
I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings tn, but outside of steel shot, there is no budget priced nontoxic shot I am aware of.  All the other metals range from over 10 bucks, to over 20 per pound. Here is a link where you can read up on the properties of each type.
                                           
                                    http://www.gameandfishmag.com/hunting/guns-shooting/gf_aa116802a/index.html

I have never been courageous enough to try steel in a muzzle loading shotgun.  I have used bismuth, but it's not cheap, and getting hard to find.   As for the others, most are actually harder than steel, with the exception of tungsten-matrix, but again, if you can find it, seven pounds runs about $100. My advice would be to forget the shotgun, and harass those bunnies with a small (.32 or .36) ml rifle. 

Appreciate the link.
The problem facing me is that whatever gun I use, cannot use lead. I will be in the Condor zone in California. I have a sweet little .32 that I plan on taking, but have got to work on developing a non-lead projectile for it.
Will set how it all pans out.

alan
Common Sense Ain't Very Common

Deceased May 20, 2009.  RIP Alan we miss you.

Offline Semisane

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 569
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2008, 07:26:51 AM »
I read a post on another forum by a guy who was getting really good accuracy out to 25 yards in a .50 caliber using glass marbles and a patch.  He located a manufacturer that had the right size marbles and bought 1,000 of them really cheap.
CLICK ON ME: .
Link to... highchairstands@cox.net

Offline Cowpox

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 456
  • Gender: Male
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2008, 12:10:55 PM »
Whoof !!  Condor zone.  Nuff said.  Sounds like many of us can be joining you in the future.  All the raptor groups are jumping on the band wagon, and pushing the same agenda.  Hopefully the boys at Thunder Ridge, Track of the Wolf, etc, will come up with some non toxic substitute for ML rifles.  I would guess they will be expensive though. We may have to build a small kiln, and experiment with casting brass, copper, or maybe bronze RBs that we can patch.
I rode with him,---------I got no complaints. ---------Cowpox

Offline tn_junk

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (54)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 885
  • Gender: Male
  • Look to Him
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2008, 01:15:47 PM »
I am in the process of scrounging up some nylon rounds and steel rod. Gonna try and make a steel encased in nylon round.
Just for kicks.

alan
Common Sense Ain't Very Common

Deceased May 20, 2009.  RIP Alan we miss you.

Offline captchee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 432
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2008, 03:50:28 AM »
 the condor zone  does not exclude lead shot . Only lead  bullets .
 There are a number of low temp alloys you can buy that  will allow you to cast your own projectiles .
 Some of those I have found , I have listed in the ‘What you goanna do thread on this forum “

Cowpox
 Here is a link to the foundry I purchased to do my own castings for  the rifles I build . It works very well  and  will melt most everything with a melting point lower  the cast iron
http://www.foundry101.com/search.htm

as to the subject at hand

 The problem with  most common non toxic shot is really 2 fold .
1) its heavier so you end up with higher barrel pressures
2) its most times hard .

 Muzzleloading barrels  in many cases “ not all “ are not designed for  this shot .  . Over time it wears the barrels just  as  with shooting a  center fire that’s not  made for steel shot .
 That being said , the problem is  in loading lose shot .
 If you use a  plastic cup  and work up a load for  comparable  weights   IE steel compared to lead weight. Then place that steal in a plastic or nylon shot cup . You wont have to worry about the  shot damaging your bore . Now that’s unless you have a choked bore .
 With choked bores you also have to take into consideration that  steel   doesn’t conform as easily as lead   when going through the choke . So keep that in mind
 But in my cylinder bores  I have had very good success doing the above .

Another thing to consider is  buying Tungsten loaded  waterfowl  shells   and carefully removing the shot  to use in your muzzleloader . if you know of someone that reloads , they often may buy the   primed casings and powder form you .

Another option is an historical base . Its not as good as round formed shot but it does work .
 See lead wasn’t the only thing used  for  fowling .   When lead was used , it wasn’t  early on  anything like the lead shot we use today . It came in a lot of different shapes , even cut shot which was simple small square pieces of  lead  cut off of a lead  strip . When lead  wasn’t available  other  things were used .

 Some time ago when I first got into research into period   fowling loads , I tried many of these  old  descriptions . To include   small fine river gravel , Seeds and such . Both worked  but not as well as shot .
 Also with river gravel , you need a cup to hold it or it will tear  up your Bore , that’s a given LOL .

The key with these is CLOSE range
But I did find that Alf alpha seed worked great for grouse  at close range  with low charges .
 When I was playing with  the seed experiments , I actually went down to the local  farm seed store  with some lead shot in #6-8 sizes . The guy thought I was nuts but they helped me find  seeds that were  of the general sizes .
  As part of that I also have taken blue grouse with  Corn LOL , ya it worked LMAO .
 But again NOT as good as Lead shot
 I also tried glass seed beads . You know the cheep kind  found at craft stores . . These also worked well for doves at closer ranges , with reduced loads
Again my point is that there are options .  One must use you ingenuity to find them

Offline tn_junk

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (54)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 885
  • Gender: Male
  • Look to Him
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2008, 03:58:51 AM »
Great info-

thanks

alan
Common Sense Ain't Very Common

Deceased May 20, 2009.  RIP Alan we miss you.

Offline Cowpox

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 456
  • Gender: Male
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2008, 04:42:25 PM »
Thanks for the links, and the tips captchee   All will come in handy, if the bird lovers get their way.  I'm on my way to check out the "What you gonna do" thread.
I rode with him,---------I got no complaints. ---------Cowpox

Offline blackpowderbill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 287
  • Gender: Male
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2008, 05:52:28 PM »
Lesson: if you find an endangered species of animal roaming your land, make it an extinct animal. Just don't get caught or you will have to answer to "Comrade Commisar of Political Correctness"
People are like slinkies, they serve no purpose yet they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

Offline Birddog 1

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 194
  • Gender: Male
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2008, 01:07:21 PM »
You can use lead shot on rabbits and tree squires, you can use a 22 on the same game. Right now the only place you can't use lead shot is Camp Roberts and Hunter Leggett for ANY game they are GREEN. Dove season opened the 1st and you can use lead shot.

Nim

If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to.
This is the last stand on earth.
R.R. 1964


The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear armes is as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in goverment.
Thomas Jefferson

Offline tn_junk

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (54)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 885
  • Gender: Male
  • Look to Him
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2008, 04:50:51 PM »
You can use lead shot on rabbits and tree squires, you can use a 22 on the same game. Right now the only place you can't use lead shot is Camp Roberts and Hunter Leggett for ANY game they are GREEN. Dove season opened the 1st and you can use lead shot.

Nim


Thanks
That's good to know. Makes me feel a little better about headed west.

alan
Common Sense Ain't Very Common

Deceased May 20, 2009.  RIP Alan we miss you.

Offline captchee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 432
Re: Non Toxic Shot in a Muzzle Stuffer
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2008, 02:58:19 AM »
 TN, you best read your regs before you take  things as truth .
 here in Idaho we have lead free zones that include lead shot  even when used for upland game birds .
 most of these are  in reserves that are along rivers  that also have a lot of water fowl in the winter ..
 If your looking at hunting in the great  republic of California . I would call   game enforcement. Last I was told   by the head of  Cali game enforcement,  Unless things have changed in the last 8 months . the lead ban for the condor area includes 22’s  “ IE bullets “
 It also covered all  cartridge  center fire , rim fire and muzzleloading bullets ,IF they are being used for hunting . It does not include  lead shot  for upland game . .
 The key wording   again from what I was told  where the words USED FOR HUNTING