Its time......after a few years of stovepiping....

[1911crazy]

Ok my 90's springfield armory 1911a1 in black park is still in the box and used very little because ity constantly stovepipes 1rd per mag.  I kept it this long because the black park is so purdy.

Mikey??  You said a while back i need to change the mag so what brand of mag do i purchase?  I'm ready to put away the crying towel and fix it now. I also purchased another G.I. Springer too but i haven't shot it yet. I may need to fix that one too but maybe not.   The 90's springer will be shot but still kept in the safe most of the time its just too purdy to use.

I just missed another norinco the other day, I seen it a while back and went back for it and it was gone.  I may go for another auto ordnance fully loaded with the larger sights.  I'm in the hunt but not sure what i want yet.  Buying another auto ordnance army ww2 copy would be cool too.  Its a no frills, bells or whsitles pistol but it shoots great much better than i expected with my bad luck.

[Mikey]

1911Crazy - I would go for some Chip McCormicks - 8 rounders work for me,  but then you just gotta shoot that 45, purdy black park or not....................Mikey.

[Dee]

I would agree on the McCormick mags, they are a good buy and good quality.
 As for the stove piping, it is usually a mag issue but, not always. Make sure the slide to frame rails are well oiled, and the sear dis-connector could use a small dab of lithium grease. I will usually also put a small amount of lithium grease on the rails as well. It is slow to evaporate, and doesn't wander.
Too light loads can also produce this type of failure, as it will not fully cycle the slide, giving the spent round time to vacate the ejection port. If one shoots light loads a slide spring should be tuned to the load. I have never had a bad Springfield pistol brought to me, but I have seen a bunch of them that needed tweaking.

[Preacherman]

Break Free does a wonderful job
Preacherman

[williamlayton]

I would take it too a good smith--explain the concerns and let him do his magic.
It could be an issue in any number of areas--that said try a new mag first.
Blessings

[Lloyd Smale]

i prefer wilsons with chip mccormicks comming in a close second

[Broom Rider]

If a little lube and a different mag doesn't fix the problem, check your extractor tension, it may need a little bit more.

[Dee]

Usually when the extractor isn't holding enough tension on the case, the empty will try to nose dive back into the chamber, or will simply lay flat on the next round stopping the slide with both ends of the case. Sometimes it will even stove pipe with the base of the case up, instead of the mouth.
With luck, he has a magazine problem.

In regards to the Wilson mags vs the McCormick's, I have used the Wilson's and liked them. Some (the Wilson's) had to be tweaked to feed properly as the mag lips were a little tight. As far as out of the package reliability, the McCormick's are very good.

I do like Wilson parts better however.

[SHOOTALL]

for whats its worth shooting star has worked for me

[1911crazy]

I'm shooting new wolf 45acp ammo in all of my 1911a1's now.  Before it was my reloads which weren't on the light side.  It stove pipes no matter what ammo i run thru it.  Even with it all lubed up correctly it stove pipes.  I'll change the mag first.  I've also been told it needs to break in too.  How many rounds does it take to break in?  I don't think it has 100 rds thru it yet.

[Mikey]

1911Carzy - I would shoot a few more boxes of ammo through it to break it in but in the interim I think I would pull the extractor and make sure it is nice and smooth all over.  When you do that, take a close look at the claw of the extractor that grabs the case rim and see if it bottoms out in the case groove which would give you the most positive extraction.  If not, it may need to be 'tweaked' a bit to fit better and give better extraction.  Also, disassemble the magazine and give that a good cleaning too.  If all that doesn't help, get some new magazines.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Dee]

I'm shooting new wolf 45acp ammo in all of my 1911a1's now.  Before it was my reloads which weren't on the light side.  It stove pipes no matter what ammo i run thru it.  Even with it all lubed up correctly it stove pipes.  I'll change the mag first.  I've also been told it needs to break in too.  How many rounds does it take to break in?  I don't think it has 100 rds thru it yet.

The pistol should cycle a minimum of 200 FACTORY rounds flawlessly before being considered reliable in a defense carry mode. Taking into mind that the 200 rounds is without the pistol being cleaned or re-lubed during the 200 round firing session. And I would agree, that the magazine is ALWAYS the first place to start on such a problem.

[JeffG]

1911Crazy - I would go for some Chip McCormicks - 8 rounders work for me,  but then you just gotta shoot that 45, purdy black park or not....................Mikey.

That solved a lot of problems for me.   I then blueprinted and mirror polished the action and slide internals.

[vinconco]

A lot of the time function problems can be traced to a recoil spring.   Springs give up, mostly sooner than later so it's usually good idea to change springs when a 1911 starts stovepiping, failing to feed, poor ejection, not locking back etc or just plain jamming.  Easy to do and springs are cheap.   Sometimes a different weight rated spring is indicated and it's a good idea to have several in your kit.
     BTW ... it's hard to tell a spring is bad by how it "feels" when you rack the slide.

[SharonAnne]

how does one "blueprint" the action internals? Where are 1911 blueprints available?

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  When I use the term 'blueprinting' to refer to either automotive or sporting application it usually means one of two things:  either I draw up a set of schematics which is wicked hard and does not show the final detail work that will bring a semi-finished product up to the refined level of excellence expected, or I write up the description of the final product to make sure I have followed all the steps I have set out for myself to complete.  For me and my simple minded way of doing things it is a checklist.

Or, in 25 words or less, blueprinting is exactly what you do when you write up the procedures you describe in refining a 1911. 

See, you had no idea you were such an architect, didja...........IMHO.  Mikey.

[1911crazy]

Mikey/Guys/Gals;  This is a brand new series 90 springfield armory 1911a1.  Its been in the box in the safe since the late 80's if i remember correctly.  I'm surprised i kept it this long with it malfunctioning but its really purdy in black park and its still flawless in condition. 
I just ordered a new chip mccormic mag for it from midwayusa along with a deer feeder on sale for $29.  The deer here are eating my pine trees already. I'm dying to try the new mag out as soon as it gets here.

I did already polish the feed ramp.  I had the same problem in my 80's series colt 1911 in nickle finish.  Once i took the nickle off the feed ramp it fed fine. It was the prettiest 1911 i ever had.

I also purchased a new springfield G.I. series 45 too but i haven't shot it yet.  This has the "45" on the wood grips with the key start(loc). It was between the auto ordnance army ww2 copy or the G.I. springer so i purchased the auto ordnance army first and went back for the G I springer too.  I haven't shot the G I springer yet. I just wanted some no bells, no whistles and no bull 1911's to play with a shooter/beater.

About changing recoil springs I have found that the full length guide rod kit with the 18# recoil spring works awesome in my 1911a1 norinco and in my new auto ordnance army 45's. The pistols have about 1 1/2" to 2" of controllable recoil and cycle faster and smoother with no more over travel and wasted time cycling. I really like this set up in my 1911's.  Once i get my 90's springer working i may try this set up in it too. After its well broken in of course. After changing the recoil spring setup in my norinco i added a new $59 SPG barrel and a national match barrel bushing and it shoots one clover leaf per mag no matter who shoots it. Thats not bad for my first rework.

With the very first outing with my auto ordnance army ww2 copy the 3 of us hammered it non stop for over 250rds and it was flawless the whole time.  I feel i can trust the reliability and its dependable enough to carry now too. I hope my 90's springer will be the same way soon.

I also been browsing for another 1911 too but nothing has caught my eye yet. I been thinking of a better auto ordnance or a Rock iland armory to play with next. But i been eyeing the double stack springer too but i'm not sure how good they are.  My only problem is i like the narrow grips 45's better.(orginal) The double stack seems harder to hold for me. Maybe its just me?  I do use the presentation grips on all my revolvers which are fatter too and there ok.

With not too much on the market thats appealing to me its time to get more 1911's I guess.

I would still like to do a 1911 build too.  I have everything but the frame yet. Its not the cost its just something to do during the winter months.

Blueprinting is having the specs to go by and making sure the gun is exactly built to the specs.  Now even though two guns can be blueprinted exactly the same no two guns will be exactly alike.  Its even with racing engines too. One will run better than the other even though the two are the same and exactly blueprinted together its the nature of the beats i guess and the same with guns too.

[SharonAnne]

i understand automotive blueprinting. Each part has a design size with an acceptable +/- spec. That suggests to me that to blueprint a 1911 the same criteria would apply. I know that SOMEWHERE there are drawings of the 1911 with specs for where pin holes are located, hammer diameter at the hammer hooks, hammer hook height, sear length/width etc. So far I have been unable to find such a drawing. I know they MUST exist.

So, blueprinting a 1911 would entail finding parts that are exactly to size, shape etc. Pin holes would be exactly the same distance from the frame rails etc.

Mikey, if I make a checklist of parts I want in my trigger/action group, and I install them, is that 'blueprinting' to your way of thinking? Or am I confusing myself further?

[IMshooter]

My vote is for trying Chip McCormick 8 round mags first.  I have a Colt Series 70 that would constantly malfunction on Colt magazines.  After switching to McCormick mags, all malfunction problems went away.  Having become a believer, I bought a total of eight 8 round mags and spent several years playing various gun games.  That pistol still runs flawlessly on the now well used Chip McCormick magazines.

[vinconco]

So, blueprinting a 1911 would entail finding parts that are exactly to size, shape etc. Pin holes would be exactly the same distance from the frame rails etc.

 

I think that you will find that each 1911 varies enough from the "blueprints" to make any attempt at putting the parts to "spec" a futile endeavor.  Frame pin holes are notorious for being drilled off axis which makes fitting trigger parts an individual thing for each pistol.  Same goes for frame/slide and barrel fitment.  Even custom guns made by noteworthy builders will have to be tweaked to some extent because until a pistol has several hundred rounds through it there is no way to fine tune everything.  Very few builders test fire their guns more than just a few rounds so the buyer usually has some final adjustments to make to get everything perfect.   The factory colt pistol is a prime example of a pistol that needs a lot of final "fitting".

[Mikey]

SharonAnne:  you asked "Mikey, if I make a checklist of parts I want in my trigger/action group, and I install them, is that 'blueprinting' to your way of thinking?"

Yeah!  Now ya got it!  Grab yourself a beer!  I'm a real basic guy - if the pin fits in the hole then it fits in the hole.  'Blueprinting' to me is exactly what you described:  I make a list of the parts I want (if there are more than 3..), locate them in the 'parts' bin or buy them and install them (sometimes I might even polish a part, too). 

Your process is much more detailed and phase specific to building a top level 1911 meant for competition.  You accurately describe each phase and I find your postings educational and informative.  I appreciate them and thank ya'll very much.

I do not machine frame parts or slides or design technical specifications to take a 1911 past combat functional, which for me with my 'olde aeyes' would include sights, trigger and hammer work/groups, grip style, accurizing or barrel work, and I have been known to use a Dremel tool to get things to, ummmm, fit.  It works for me; by the time I'm through 'fixing' a perfectly good gun it will hammer the 10 ring all day long (usually with someone else shootin' it).  It will print a cold first shot within 2-2.5" at 25m and I can print in the 4" circle at 50 with cold first shots.  Competition guns shoot much better than that.

I have also been known to use the term 'thingy'.......It's something I do on occasion. Mikey.

[SHOOTALL]

mikey you sir are a custom fitter !
to blueprint , that hole that the pin fit , well ya need to make sure it is in the correct place , if not ya weld it up and re drill it rather than grind other parts to " make it work " .

That's a compliment , as John M. Browning was a custom fitter/desinger , the factories that bought rights to build his guns sometimes took years to get Blueprints of guns that could be used on the machines and assy lines to make parts that interchange .

[1911crazy]

My two other brand new colt 1911 are history because of quality problems.  But i purchased this new springfield soon after and i'm hanging on to it because its so purdy in black park.  I have two new mags and i'm hoping to try them soon.

I was just about all done with the 1911/1911a1's because of functioning problems with the new ones when i found a chinese norinco 1911a1 to try one last time.  This one changed my mind about the 1911's and how great they really are. I purchased the new AO WW2 copy next. It functions great right out of the box too. Now i want to get my old springer working too.  I also have a new G.I. Springer that i haven't shot yet too.

[Troyboy]

1911 and variants are my favorite style of hand gun period.

[1911crazy]

1911 and variants are my favorite style of hand gun period.

I like them too but i also like revolvers too.  Recently i wanted a 9mm pistol and went looking for one.  I found a CZ85DB in 9mm luger and fell in love all over again.  I picked up a 16rd mag and the rest is history.  The CZ line of pistols are awesome too.

[Jim_Ole_Timer]

 Sorry for what may seem as a dumb question, but what is stove piping?   

neva heard that before

[1911crazy]

Stovepiping;  The slide catches the brass case in a straight up vertical position and jams thus stove pipe.

[Jim_Ole_Timer]

Ahh, Thanks. All makes sence now. I've had that happen with my new Kimber 1911, but I think its getting better now with shortening the seating depth.