CCW & Handloads

[stimpylu32]

You will hear people say to use only factory ammo for your personal self defense on the street / home but its ok to use hand loads for a walk the woods gun , not trying to start a fight but can someone please explain the thoughts behind this .

I personally use hand loads for all my defense work , what ever it may be , a 140 # cougar or a 400 # black bear are just as deadly as a 150 # crackhead , granted you need to tailor your ammo for the threat , what would work for one may not be the best choice for the other .

What do you think on this ?

stimpy

[Tom W.]

If you want it to work, roll your own.

[John R.]

I personally have never seen where using a good handload for personal defense would get you in trouble. The old argument that you must be somebody looking for a fight because you loaded your own ammo doesn't make sense to me. If the handload is loaded to factory specs (or in some cases less) what's the problem.

[Lone Star]

The reality is that some court cases could be based upon the thought that the shooter/handloader loaded his ammo to be more "inhumane" than the factory ammo that law enforcement uses.  This helps the opposition to vilify the shooter to the jury, and this adds just one more reason for the jury to convict him.  Having sat on a number of jurys, I would not wish to be tried by some of them.

The handload/inhumane argument seems silly to me, but then a lot of silly, frivolous cases have been lost by "logical" defendants.  It is simply not worth the risk to me - I have way too much to lose if by some chance I was convicted.  I do not want to be a Supreme Court case.  I use factory ammo in all my defensive handguns and shotguns.  There is great factory stuff available so I am compromising nothing.  To each his own, but I will not take a chance on the court system if I don't have to.  Factory ammo is cheap in comparison to a potential life behind bars.



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[Old Syko]

This is a subject that has been discussed not only here but on practically every other gun forum I've ever read.  The liability issue always comes up yet no-one has ever been able to site the first case of the subject of handloads ever being brought into play in any court case dealing with self defense.

I carry handloads because that is what I'm used to and will always stick with.  In a defensive situation the last thing you need is to try out factory loads that neither you or your weapon are familiar with.  If you've gotten to the point of having to fire in self defense you have much more major concerns than the type of ammo you're using.

[Dave in WV]

I don't use my loads in my self defense firearms. The only real reason is I have ammo I bought that I have faith in so there's no need for me to load self defense ammo.

[stimpylu32]

I have 2 diffrent handguns that I use for carry guns , depending on what I'm doing and were I will be . All using the same loads that I practice with so I know were they are going to hit ever time .

My Taurus Tracker in 45LC for example is loaded with the first 2 rounds being 250g JHPs , the next 2 are 255g RNFPs and the last is a 300g SWC .

My 5 shot S&W Mod 36 gets loaded with the old Remington 110g JHPs , I know that they will open up at the lower speeds of the 38 spl .

When I go to practice the rounds are loaded in the same order every time , if it comes to the point were I HAVE to shoot I don't want any suprises .

stimpy

[victorcharlie]

Let's see, I'm loading a Remington bullet, using a Remington primer and Remington brass.  Yes, it's handloaded but still, not much difference from factory fodder.

Maybe one of those who are licensed to lie might chime in with some free legal advice huh?

Lets not even go there !!

[cwlongshot]

Basically because they don't think right...  I mean they don't include common sense in the equation.... I mean they don't think like we do.
 

Quite unfortunately, we live in a world where the most law makers, most of the law enforcers, do not think we should have guns. Let alone have the right to shoot someone to defend ourselves. They are called liberals, Bleeding heart liberals, and they are a confusing hypocritical lot.

Any foot hold to defer the responsibility of the poor bastard who was trying to rape/mame/kill your loved one. Will/could be made out to be the VICTIM!!! Its not about right and wrong or any such nonsense, is flatly about the deplorable person you are for shooting another human being.

 May of you guys live in gun friendly states/county's. Far away from the issues here on the east coast. Its even worse over on the wrong coast in California.

 I have never gone thru a court case defending the fact that I defended my self. But I have three good friends that did just that. Doing so here in Connecticut its appalling how you are treated and looked upon. I sincerely hope no one reading this ever has to go thru it.

 Of coarse I am playing devils advocate here and I am likely COMPLETELY in agreement with the vast majority on this board as it pertains to gun and our rights to have and carry them.

 I for one will do what I can to defend my self. Defend myself form the bad guy breaking in my home and the bad guy defending the poor bastard or representing the family of the same bastard.

 Store bought ammo, for carry here. Preferably the same as what the local police authorities carry.

CW

[Lone Star]

Another legal reason not to use handloads - court case cited:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_181_30/ai_n26806104

Bottom line - your decision.  I hope I never have to use lethal force on anyone.  I get the feeling that not all handloaders feel the same way.....



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[torpedoman]

This is a subject that has been discussed not only here but on practically every other gun forum I've ever read.  The liability issue always comes up yet no-one has ever been able to site the first case of the subject of handloads ever being brought into play in any court case dealing with self defense.

I carry handloads because that is what I'm used to and will always stick with.  In a defensive situation the last thing you need is to try out factory loads that neither you or your weapon are familiar with.  If you've gotten to the point of having to fire in self defense you have much more major concerns than the type of ammo you're using.

The big question is do you want to be the first when the prosecutor tells the jury that you made your own bullets to increase the damage and the likelyhood that it would be fatal?

[torpedoman]

The problem with the cited example is that women almost never shoot themself in the head.

[Old Syko]

The liability issue always comes up yet no-one has ever been able to site the first case of the subject of handloads ever being brought into play in any court case dealing with self defense.

My statement still stands.  The sited case is NOT one of self defense.

The big question is do you want to be the first when the prosecutor tells the jury that you made your own bullets to increase the damage and the likelihood that it would be fatal?

No question at all.  I don't want to be the first nor do I want anyone else to be the first.  The only other option is to run away and hide your head in the sand.  Sorry, never been my style.

Not using handloads for defense ammo because you're afraid of what some lawyer may dream up is the same as being afraid of being seen with an evil looking firearm for fear some uneducated liberal might be frightened.  Are we so overwhelmed by liberal thinking these days that we have come around to their way of thinking?  Frightening!  Looks like at least a couple of us will be using what we are familiar with and we'll just have to wish the rest good luck.

[gypsyman]

Just like in the Duke rape case, prosecutor started something, didn't want to look like an idiot, and kept at it. Wouldn't have mattered if he had reloads or not.  Feel sorry for the young man, had his life ruined by a sucidal wife, and a lawyer who wanted another notch in his breifcase. gypsyman

[Reed1911]

I have two points, #1 While not directly involved (as shooter, cop or lawyer ((either side))) In the one case that I was a sideline to the question of the source of the ammunition never came up. As it happens to be, the ammo was reloaded by a major manufacturer in normal brass cases with nickle plated primers, with a lead RN bullet (9mm for those that have to ask). Now me being me, when I asked what the person was shot with, the shooter (completely justified and released with no legal harm done) answered and then handed me one from the mag. Now to me it was pretty clear it was a reload, not only the mismatch but it was scratched a little like brass will do, anyhow I digress.

#2, I know I can make better ammo than any factory for my guns and most handloaders feel the same. Now, if I shoot a match with my ammo because its more accurate, and I shoot a match with mine because I know I won't have a mis-fire. What in the world would make me carry someone elses loads for S.D use?

[AtlLaw]

Had a computer meltdown so I'm just getting caught up on my threads.

I think...    strange statement for me since I seldom say that... Last time I did was to a jury and the Judge interrupted me and said "nobody cares what you think Mr. AtlLaw... ."    Of course the Judge was correct.

Anyway, one of our ADA's did, dramatically, drop a very large box of 5.56 ammo on the evidence table to emphasize his argument which was aimed at reinforcing the "why would anyone need thousands of rounds of ammo" way of thinking that many people have.     You make any argument you can that supports your theory of your case.  You could be considered remiss in your duty to your client if you didn't.

So, I am sure a prosecutor who knows that there are people who actually load their own ammunition may work that into an argument in a particular case.  Personally, I'm not worried about it.

I carry 24/7 and use hand loads in my 44 and factory loads in my 38.  I figger that cuts my odds of having to worry about this issue in half...   

[Horn-Harvester]

I carry my own reloads for personal defense. I don't worry about being prosecuted for doing so. Maybe a few double taps of reloads to the head of some slimy, ambulance chasing lawyers turned prosecutors would help rid this country of these cancers to society. Besides if I'm convicted using reloads for personal defense I wont have to work, get medical, dental and eye care that i cant afford now. Get to eat three squares a day and lay around watching cable TV all day. Heck, I can even buy drugs to help pass the time away.  h.h.

[Freezer]

    I think cwlongshot said it best.  I will not use hand loads for personal defence.  For the price of good personal defence ammo and the short distance you'll be shooting it's not worth the chance and trouble in a court room.  There are to many things that can go wrong in a court and I want to eliminate every variable possible.
    My friend had to shoot a 16 year old street rat after years of intimidation and harassment, he had even been hospitalized once.  To make a long story short he spent the night in jail while the police sorted everything out.  They removed all his firearms from his house leaving is wife and child defenceless against this gang of street rats.  He was cleared, got his firearms back three months later and was awarded a CC permit (only one of 341 in this county).
    Actually they weren't defenceless they had my son's and my defence weapons!  Had the street rats come back I'd have been in jail answering allot of questions and could have lost my collection. I would have cried the remainder of my life but it would have been worth it.  When I gave him my weapons I made him buy his own defence ammo and keep the receipts just in case!
    Loose the bravado and eliminate the variable! It's not worth the chance for a couple bucks.