30/06 TO 375

[Swampman]

The .303 & the .30-40 Krag are both better than most modern cartridges.  A 7.62X39 Handi Rifle barrel could be rechambered to .303.  It would be better than a Ruger.

[Brithunter]

Sorry can't help with a 9x57mm but I do have the next in line a 9.3x57mm Husqvarna model 46 from 1935:-





  In 303 there is this other BSA built upon a Metford carbine action:-









  Have not got any photos that I can access right now on the sporting Martini also in 303. In the past I have a nice pair of sporterised No1 Mk111's -



along with a P-14 that had been converted for target shooting. Good luck with your search!

[Mike Britton]

Brithunter, I have a # ! that has been sporterized. One of my favorite "carry" rifles, and instant death on coyotes.
I need decent sporter wood for mine as the wood on it is really heavy "crotch wood", and now warped out of shape.
Does someone on your side of the pond make wood I could buy and fit/ Could I afford to ship it here to Texas?
I haven't had much luck here as few folks are playing with #1s over here. Mike

[Brithunter]

It's the Butt stock which I take it is most needed one with a cheek piece as the fore stock can fairly easily be sporterised. These rifels here were done commercially by firms like Parker-Hale and London Armoury co. This practice has long ceased so finding sporting wood is rather hit or miss. Shipping wood to the US is no problem that I know of. There are a number of classic arms dealers who might have such wood as restoring rifles did have some followers. I cannot promise anything but it would be possible to make a few phone calls to see if they have or know where some might be obtained.

[kyelkhunter3006]

The .303 & the .30-40 Krag are both better than most modern cartridges.  A 7.62X39 Handi Rifle barrel could be rechambered to .303.  It would be better than a Ruger.

I've had a couple of Handi's and they shot well enough, but they just don't have the lines or timeless class of Ruger.  I've seriously considered having that done with one of the Remington Spartan single shots in 7.62x39, but I haven't decided yet.  I've also had a couple of #1's and there's no comparison for me, the Ruger wins hands down.  Of course, with the Ruger , you're gonna pay for it, even before the custom work. 

Besides, the Handi only has a 22" barrel, and I'd go at least 24" with the Ruger, if not a bit longer than that.  It would balance perfectly.

EABCO makes the 97D single shot in 30-40 with a 26" barrel, for around $1200 today.  I tried to get them to make one in .303 and even offered to supply the barrel, but they wouldn't do it.  At the time (serious cash surplus, now long gone) the price was just under $1000 and I was going to get a matched set, one in 30-40 and one in .303.  Oh well.  They would have been sweet guns.

[Brithunter]

Whilst I have never seen nor handled the Spartan rifles I do have the parent a Baikal MH18 in 222 rem. This needed trigger work to reduce the very heavy pull. I managed to work it out and get is lower but have not been able to remove all the creep. I have an old take off 7.62x51 target barrel from a Mauser which I cut most fo the chamber and the thread off so it's no longer a barrel in the legal sense and was wondering about maknig up and new breech part to screw the barrel into and fit it to the Baikal using a shortened 303 case blown out to an improved shape and using .308 bullets. This project is still in the head planning stages.

[kyelkhunter3006]

We call that barrel stubbing on this side of the Atlantic.  Google it, there's a couple places that do it for Handi rifles and for Contenders.  You might get some good ideas.  There's actually several posts on GB about doing on NEF/H&R rifles and shotguns.

[Mike Britton]

Thanks, Brithunter.
I was thinking maybe you had some web sites I could go to, not a problem, I may find a #1 beater at a gun show with decent aftermarket wood i could pick up, and put all the pieces together then sell the rest.
I have two .303's, and a .30-40. I really like them. I use the same loads in both cartridges.

[Spanky]

Brit,

While I don't really agree with your opinion of Remington rifles, it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
On the other hand, the rifles you have pictured are very, very nice and you should be proud to own them!!



Spanky

[Swampman]

Ruger quality and accuracy are very unimpressive.  I'd go with an NEF.

[Mike Britton]

I bought a M77 in .308 from a coworker back in the '90's (seems kinda strange to be saying "back in the '90's) . When I took it apart to see if there were any suprises, I found it was 'glass bedded. After my son and I came back from the range, we realized we had a keeper! Great accuracy, smooth as glass trigger, everything you want in a hunting rifle.
Now I read from you guys that M77s aren't all that good. I'm beginning to believe that mine has had more than just bedding.
Paid $350 with a Simmons 3x9 on top in Ruger rings.

[Brithunter]

Ahhh Mike,

      Unless it's a Remington in 30-06 according to swampman it's only useful as a boat anchor.

    The Ruger No1 can require  little tweaking or so I read on the web, the one I had a No1B in 300 win Mag was quite accurate, well I didn't have particular problems getting MOA out of it, would still have it but had to trade it to swing a deal several years ago now  .

   A friend also had a No1B in 243 Win that was a tack driver with 85 grain bullets yet shot patterns of around 6"-8" with 100 grain bullets, not unknown in 243. Due to ill health he sold all his rifles a couple of years ago now otherwise he would still be shooting it.

   My hunting buddy in Missouri used a Ruger 77 in 6.5x55 for years until he got long range fever  now he totes a heavy bench type rifle, one he shoots 600 yard Hi-Power and bench rest with in 243 AI until this year as he has just built a new one in 6.5x284 which he is planning on using this season. Since he made this decision several years back after dropping an 11 pointer at 325 paces with the Ruger 77 all his deer have been under 150 yards  a doe last year was shot at about 60 yards in her bed after he sat down for a smoke and coffee then realised she was laying just inside the edge of the wood looking at him he put down the coffee and slowly picked up the rifle and shot her in the ear she never got up again her head just dropped and that was it all over bar the cleaning.


   Personally I ignore swampman and his ludicrous comments now!

[Brithunter]

Brit,

While I don't really agree with your opinion of Remington rifles, it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
On the other hand, the rifles you have pictured are very, very nice and you should be proud to own them!!



Spanky

Hi Spanky,

     Thank you, it's the modern Remington I have issues with  I am still trying to get a nice model 30 and would even look at and consider a 721. I have been trying to relieve someone of a Model 30 in 35 Remington but they won't let it go even though they never use it  . For me I think they lost the plot back in the 1970's but of course I keep tripping over other models of BSA and Parker-Hale  like today I saw a lightweight 1100 in 22-250. Don't see many of them and if it had not got the sound moderator fitted I would have been sorely tempted but the sound moderator means that the fore sight has been removed and the barrel screw cut and I would want it as standard.

[Mike Britton]

Somewhere, there has to be a flaw in the UK's logic that handguns are the devil's fingers, but a silencer on a highpower rifle is no problem!
I'm STILL trying to get my brain around that one !

[Swampman]

There are no problems with modern Remingtons, nor any other Remingtons.  They are still the most accurate out of the box production rifle you can buy.

[Brithunter]

Somewhere, there has to be a flaw in the UK's logic that handguns are the devil's fingers, but a silencer on a highpower rifle is no problem!
I'm STILL trying to get my brain around that one !

It's a Health & Safety thing to protect yours and others hearing and to help prevent noise pollution  the Forrestry Commision ( a Government Agency) got sued for hearing damage by some of it's rangers who's job it is to control the deer damage in plantations of commercial timber. The sound moderators became popular in Scandinavia and they heard about it and did a test then adopted the use of them. The Police tried to refuse to issue licences for them but got pulled up by the Home Office and it was pointed out about the Health & safety issues so now they are common.

[kyelkhunter3006]

Ruger quality and accuracy are very unimpressive.  I'd go with an NEF.

I also find Ruger's accuracy very unimpressive....in the Mini 14/30 and 10-22.  But in the M77 and the #1, well, if you call MOA out of every gun I've shot, no tweaking other than some trigger work on a couple of them, unimpressive......  I've shot 6 different #1's, from .243 to 30-06, and 5 different M77's from .223-7mm Mag, in Ultra Light, Varmint, and regular models.  Not a huge test pool, but enough for me.

Yes, the NEF rifles can deliver fine accuracy.....after you fix the trigger, bed the scope base, shim locking latch shelf, polish the bore, polish the chamber, O-ring--flat washer--free float--Devcon--RTV--glass bed the forend, pull the trigger all the way (don't you always pull the trigger all the way, that's what makes the gun go boom??), open and close the gun forcefully to mate the latch and shelf.  Oh and don't forget, all lubrication needs to be gone so that it locks up right and when you shoot from the rest to sight it in, be sure to only have the frame touching anything (because that's how you'll shoot it in the field, right?) so that there's some decent accuracy.  WHEW!  Did I forget anything?   

I've had some NEF's, and I"ll probably have some others in the future, but I'll only keep them if they shoot decently...like a rifle should without all the crap being done.     In the meantime, while times a'wastin with all the modifications, I'll be shooting at the range with my "unimpressive" unmodified Ruger #1's.   

[Brithunter]

Well whilst your re-building the NEF so it functions as it should have originally from the factory  it does keep you off the streets and out of mischief 

Me I can't be doing with all that and don't much like their looks so..................................................................... in that sort of thing I will play with the Baikal MH18 I picked up. had to lighten the trigger but that's is although i did re-model to wood to my liking, not required for function just for feel and looks to my eyes and hands.

Oh just ignore the resident Loony 

[Coyote Hunter]

I wouldn't want anything other than a Remington 700 myself.  The .375 Ruger while interesting isn't a .375H&H, and you'd be stuck with a Ruger.  Remington is making a .375H&H M700SPS for less than $600.00 right now.  If I wanted to build one myself, I'd just find a used M700 in a magnum caliber to start with.

You're right, the .375 Ruger is not a .375 H&H.  Thank goodness!  While the H&H is a great cartrdige, my preference is the Ruger.

"Stuck with a Ruger"?  Got a safe full of them (well, more than I have Remingtons) and very happy with them all.

[Coyote Hunter]

Ruger quality and accuracy are very unimpressive.  I'd go with an NEF.

My Rugers are every bit as accurate as my Remingtons. 

The last Ruger I bought was a slide-safety M77 in .30-06 and the first trip to the range I fired 9 shots, handloaded 168g A-MAX over 0.5g incremental powder charges.  Overall group size was about 1-1/4", not bad considering no two loads were identical.  More impressive was 6 shots were touching in a group about 2 bullet diameters high by less than one bullet diameter wide (center to center measurement, obviously).  My hunting loads run about 0.75" for a 3-shot group last time I checked.

Had my slide safety M77 .257 Roberts at the range last weekend and was shooting touching hols at 100 with 115g TSX and 120g A-Frame.  75g V-MAX will do that, too.  When I left the 100-yard range the Roberts was ringing the 500-yard gong with boring consistency.

Then there is my heavy-barrel .22-250.  Last time I checked group size at 200 yards it ran 0.5".

My Ruger 7mm Rem Mag turned in a sub .3" group (3 shots) with one of my hunting loads.

The loser of the bunch is my canoe-paddle Ruger M77 MKII in  .300 Win Mag.  My hunting loads run about 0.85" at 100 yards.

My Remington's, on the other hand, shoot much better.  My .308 BDL and my new .30-06 both shoot under an inch easily with preferred loads.

Yup, Ruger accuracy really stinks compared to Remington.  And 1 + 1 = 3.

As to quality, I've never had a Ruger rifle break an extractor, something I can't say about Remington.  And while the finish on the M77's isn't as nice as a BDL or CDL, the Rugers don't cost as much, either.  My 'Special Purpose Wood' Remington is no nicer than my wood-stocked Ruger rifles.  Which is OK by me as I prefer functionalality over cosmetics and I fail to see how the cosmetics of the BDL/CDL add to product reliability or function.

If you wanted to bitch about the Ruger trigger, you might have something.  Of course they are very easy to polish up, as I've done with all mine.  Remington triggers, of course, are perfect out of the box - which is why so many after market triggers exist for the Remington.  My Remington's have the original triggers but they have also been adjusted.

[Brithunter]

Duck quick ................................... Incoming................................. 


How ...................how .............................Just how dare you critise Remington. The "blind and faithfull" will be howling for your blood now  careful how you open your mail 


Oh welcome to the club 

[kyelkhunter3006]

LMAO.  We should start our own forum about Remington and the problems with them that GBO members have had.  I bet it would become the longest forum on GBO.  Like I've said, I've had some good shooters out of Remington, but I've also had more problems out of them than all of the other brands as well.

[Swampman]

"My Rugers are every bit as accurate as my Remingtons."

Then you are very very lucky.  The last M77 I bought shot 6" groups at 100 yards right out of the box.  After a months worth of tinkering it shot ok.

I stick with Remington, because I can't spend a month shooting a rifle before I can use it for hunting.

[john keyes]

My first deer rifle was/is a M77 MkII .30-06

Back in the early 90's it shot Speer hunting bullets under 3/4" with IMR 4064, 4350, 4831.

[Swampman]

See, you had to use handloads.

My first deer rifle was a Remington 788.  It shot half MOA with anything you fed it right out of the box.

You just can't beat a Remington.

[john keyes]

See, you had to use handloads.

My first deer rifle was a Remington 788.  It shot half MOA with anything you fed it right out of the box.

You just can't beat a Remington.

huh?  I didn't HAD to use anything.
Last week I had one of my 444P's outshoot one of my remingtons.
 

[Coyote Hunter]

"My Rugers are every bit as accurate as my Remingtons."

Then you are very very lucky.  The last M77 I bought shot 6" groups at 100 yards right out of the box.  After a months worth of tinkering it shot ok.

I stick with Remington, because I can't spend a month shooting a rifle before I can use it for hunting.

I've never had to tinker any more with a Ruger than I do Remington or Savage in order to get them to shoot.  The typical sequence is float the barrel, develop the loads and go.  The only problem I've had, in fact, was with my 7mm Rem Mag and 140g TSX.  Fixed that with IMR7828SSC.

My buddy and I were out at the range today.  He had his Ruger M77 MKII 7mm Rem Mag and I had Remingtons in .308 Win and .30-06.  Dave is on a pretty strict budget so for the most part we were shooting we shot 2-shot groups with his rifle and ammo.  (We don't expect to to take more than two shots max in the field anyway, so we've always put a premium on the first two shots.  In the field Dave has yet to miss, so I guess it works.)

Dave's 7mm RM Ruger, Dave shooting:
0.35", 160g Trophy Bonded, 2-shot group

Dave's 7mm RM Ruger, me shooting:
0.40", 140g Nosler Partition, 2-shot group

My Remington .308 Win, me shooting:
0.70", 168g A-MAX, 3-shot group

My Remington .30-06 Win, me shooting:
0.60", 168g A-MAX, 2-shot group

One thing to bear in mind here is that Dave only has one bolt rifle, the Ruger, and doesn't spend nearly the time or effort in load development that I do.  Nevertheless his 7mm RM Ruger has turned in many .5-.6" groups over the years and turned in the tightest groups today.



Here’s a target I shot with my Ruger 7mm Rem Mag.  Note that each shot used 0.5g increments of powder, so no two loads were identical.  Also note that this was shot in a 40mph crosswind. 


Here’s a group shot with my Ruger .257 Roberts.  ‘Nuff said.


Or perhaps you would like this one better, my Ruger .300 win Mag from a clean bore (which explains the location of the first shot).


Or my Ruger .30-06.

[Swampman]

After owning quite a few, I gave up on Rugers.  I just don't have that much spare time.  Any rifle should be able to show promise on the first trip to the range with factory ammo.  That's why I strictly buy Remingtons.  They are after all "The most accurate production rifle you can buy."

[john keyes]

After owning quite a few, I gave up on Rugers.  I just don't have that much spare time.  Any rifle should be able to show promise on the first trip to the range with factory ammo.  That's why I strictly buy Remingtons.  They are after all "The most accurate production rifle you can buy."

well its important to use what you have confidence in.  Just like a dude that chunks nothing but the same lure over and over.  Its not the lure but the effort.
I've got my share of Remingtons and have not been dissapointed.

[Coyote Hunter]

After owning quite a few, I gave up on Rugers.  I just don't have that much spare time. 

After owning a number of Rugers and having shot even more, I have to say they have all been very easy to develop loads for.  Certainly as easy as my Savage and Remington rifles.  Many of my Ruger loads have required no more than 10 shots, often less, on the initial trip to the range with a given combination of bullet and powder followed by shooting several proof loads the second trip.  Don’t know how much easier it can get.

Any rifle should be able to show promise on the first trip to the range with factory ammo. 

When I buy a new rifle I generally buy a box or two of factory ammo.  To be honest, I don’t worry too much about how it shoots as it is mostly used to get on paper with the scope.  Even my initial test loads often shoot better.  Ruger, Remington, Savage, doesn’t seem to make any difference..

That's why I strictly buy Remingtons.  They are after all "The most accurate production rifle you can buy."

Well, unless you have statistical data to prove it, that’s pure marketing hype/BS/wishful thinking.  Please – show us the source for your data.

Nothing wrong with Remingtons but in my experience they are no more accurate than Ruger or Savage.