Author Topic: light loads & fillers  (Read 471 times)

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Offline coyotejoe

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light loads & fillers
« on: August 15, 2008, 05:36:48 AM »
I've recently been playing with some 200 grain Beartooth gas checked bullets in the .357 Maximum. For mild, low noise loads I've been using 7, 8 and 9 grains of Unique with velocities around 1000-1300 fps. I always use a tuft of cotton or dacron filler with these small charges even though I know fillers are now out of fashion. Just for the heck of it I decided to try some Accurate Arms AA-5 powder because it measures much more consistently than does the flake powder like Unique. I decided to try the same charge weights with the AA-5. I charged five cases each with 7, 7.5 and 8 grains. Then I got a bit ahead of myself and realized I had seated bullets in the 7.0 grain cases without the filler. Oh well thinks I, I'll just evevated the muzzle before firing those and added the filler to the other loads.
 Comes the shooting test, I elevate the muzzle, settle down on the target and CLICK. I remove the round, the primer is deeply indented but the bullet has not moved at all. Dud primer I guess, so I try another round, same click and no movement of the bullet. Now I'm confused. I've loaded rounds with no powder before and the primer always expelled the bullet from the case, but here they didn't even move. I clicked the remaining rounds with the muzzle pointed straight up and none even moved the bullet. I fired the other rounds, those with the filler and got fair accuracy and velocities similar to Unique with low extreme spreads.
 On returning home I pulled the bullets from the misfires. The gas check was darkened with soot and when I upended the case out fell a little black disk. It seemes the AA-5 never ignited but melted or fused into a disk shape. One side of the disk was flat and smooth, as if it had formed against the gas check, while the other side was porus and lumpy. All five looked similar, just a disk of melted plastic looking stuff.
  Filler may be out of fashion but it sure seems necessary with AA-5 powder in small charges.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Savage

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Re: light loads & fillers
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 07:56:20 AM »
Interesting-----------very interesting! The powder got hot enough to fuse it's self together without completely burning. I've never seen that!! Wonder if a magnum primer would have lit it up?
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline PaulS

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Re: light loads & fillers
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2008, 07:57:22 AM »
There are better powders for reduced velocity loads that do not reqire filler.
Personally I would never put together a load with a filler added to it - too many variables added to the internal ballistics that might cause problems.
There are reduced velocity loads for 3006 using Unique with no filler - 10- 13 grains of unique in a 3006 case.
AA-5 is a double base powder and is sensitive to volume - it is not a good powder for reduced loads.
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads.

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: light loads & fillers
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2008, 11:00:09 AM »
Definitely time to re-think your powder choice , there are many others out there that will give you the results your looking for without the chance of something going very bad .

It could have been even worse had a GC came loose and lodged in the barrel and another round fired behind it  .  :o  :o  :o

stimpy
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: light loads & fillers
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2008, 02:13:53 PM »
I'm shooting a handi rifle and I have made a habit of looking through the bore after every shot, mostly checking for leading but just looking. No chance for a stuck gas check here as the bullets never moved from where seated. I would never shoot such a light load without a filler, maybe some powders do not require a filler but it has been my experience that all do shoot better with a filler. I've had hangfires in the 45/70 using 4227 without filler and vertical strings using Unique without filler and both did fine when a filler was added. Likewise the AA-5 loads did well with a filler, 7.5 grains with filler clocked 1122 fps with a standard deviation of 7 and 8.0 grains went 1191 fps with an SD of 5.  I really don't see any problem with using a filler but there are sure plenty of examples of problems with light loads without a filler.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline MnMike

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Re: light loads & fillers
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 05:43:48 PM »
I am doing two things that seem to be out of fashion.

1. I use Blue Dot for a reduced load in .500S&W. Blue Dot currently has a bad rep.
2. with a filler. Fillers currently have a bad rep.

Blue dot really needs the filler. Groups without it are bad.

When I use up my supply of Blue Dot, I will probably switch to TiteGroup which supposedly will not require a filler and not be as troublesome as Blue Dot.

All I can say in my defense is that these rounds shoot into real nice groups, as good or better than my full bore loads.

mike

Mike Ellestad