6.5X55 hunting load??

[WyoStillhunter]

I am working up hunting ammo for antelope and deer in a new-to-me 6.5X55 Swede (Rem. M700 Classic w. Sightron 4X42mm scope).

The chrony shows I am getting a little better than 2550 fps. and actual 3-shot groups are 1.5" or less @ 100yds. with 2.5"-3.0" @ 200 yds.

Load is:
140 gr. Hdy. SP
46.2 gr. Re22
CCI 200
Frontier (Hdy) brass

This duplicates the published ballistics of ammo available from Win., Rem., and Hdy.  Rem. 260 published MV is 2700+ fps but the difference in trajectory at 200 yds. between the Swede and the 260 is less than 2".  I see no reason to build my loads any hotter.

What do you veteran users of the Swede have to say regarding hunting loads?

[Sweetwater]

I put most of my SW Wyoming antelope in the freezer with a lot less gun than the 6.5x55 at factory velocity. Most were less than 100 yard shots, and all of them one-shot kills. Your load should be terrific and easy on the shooter!!

I've just started playing with Rel22 in my Swede, a Ruger MKII, and it loves it with some 158gr MilSurp bullets I've been shooting up. I started at 47gr (per 'the book') and a COAL of 3.30". Groups were good, pressure indicators were cool. I've worked up to 50gr, one grain at a time, but found nothing to make me want to stay there or push onward. My next will be 45gr to 48gr, 0.5gr apart. Looking for that rag-tag hole. Hoping to run some 120gr Remington CoreLokts at decent velocity for Whitetails and Mulies this Fall, but haven't found that rag-tag hole load, yet. It's a fun thing to me.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[WyoStillhunter]

Sweet,

I bought some 120 gr. Rem. C-L (bulk) bullets from MidwayUSA and gave them a very superficial try:  46.1 gr. Re19.  MV was 2570 fps and 5-shot groups were only so-so.  The Swede is new to me and summer is getting short so I decided to stick with my efforts on a 140 gr. Hdy. bullet and come back to the 120s after this season.  The 140 seems to be the do-it-all bullet for the Swede...we'll see.

Like you, my antelope shots are not terrifically long.  Last year I was shooting a 257 Roberts (new Ruger 77 Hawkeye).  I took a young antelope buck at approx. 150 yards near my cabin at the base of the Snowy Range west of Laramie.  In November I went to Missouri and used it for two WT deer (does) with neck shots at less than 100 yds.  Elk tend to average more like 50 yards in the timber I like to hunt.

2007 Juvenile Antelope

[BBF]

For antelope you might consider bullets in the 120 gr range.  Speer shows their 120 gr Hot Cor to almost 2900 fps from a 22" barreled Ruger with 4 different powders and mid 2800 fps with 3 more.

[WyoStillhunter]

I agree but life comes at you fast and antelope season is only a few weeks away.  Next week we are gone for three days and in September I will be on a tour of the Holy Land for a couple weeks.

As a Wyoming resident I have terrific big game hunting opportunities for antelope, deer, and elk.  That all happens in about six weeks:  antelope in Sept., deer the first half of October and elk from October 15 - 31.  It is fast and furious when you factor in job, family and church responsibilities.  By mid-August it's time to be READY for hunting season, not developing new loads.  I'll work on the 120 gr. bullets for next year.

[Sweetwater]

Enjoy that tour of the Holy Land!! All I've known who have made journey can't say enough about it. God Bless your trip!

The 140gr may be the workhorse for the Swede and 120gr may be more pertinent for smaller bodies like antelope, BUT I encourage you to seek what your rifle likes and shoot it - fabulously. My 6.5TCU loved 100gr Hornady and 129gr Sierra, but only shot the 140gr Sierra so-so. My 96 didn't like anything shorter than the 140gr. I haven't found the sweet load for my Ruger, yet, but we are working on it.

The encouragement comes from a period in my life when I first moved into SW Wyoming back in '85. I had several rifles and decided to shoot my 98 Persian Carbine 8x57 for all hunting for a few seasons. What an experience. I had 130's for Prairie Dogs(lousy), 150's for Antelope(good), 175's for Deer(great) and 200's for Elk(terrific). I gave up on the 130's totally. Sprayed them everywhere. The 150's were interchangeable with the 175's, the Deer didn't know the difference, and neither did the Antelope. Then, one year it happened. I was on Monument Ridge near Bondurant, Wy in 1990. I shot 2 doe Mulies and the biggest Elk of my career (so far). While field dressing, I found I had taken one doe with a 150gr Sierra and the other with a 200gr Nosler - the Bull Elk went down to a 175gr Sierra. That was the 2nd elk taken with the 175gr Sierra. I now load 185gr Remington Corelokts as my 'everything' bullet. I've gotten away from having several loads for each rifle or revolver. I build hunting loads and target loads - in different color boxes.

An article by John Barseness a few years back addressed finding one bullet weight and then using bullets of different construction to match the particular quarry. It was probably in RIFLE magazine. If I find it I will post it. Another good read from J.B.

Regards,
Sweetwater.

[Larry Gibson]

I've worked up numerous loads in several 6.5 Swede M38s with 23.75" barrels.  I've settled on 3 loads;

Sieera 100 gr HP (the Hornady 100 SP won't take the RPM of thswede twist with this load)
WW Cases / WLR primers
47 gr Varget
2.94 OAL
3235 fps

Nosler 120 gr BT or Sierra 120 SP
WW cases / WLR primers
44.2 gr Varget
3.06 OAL
2950 fps

Hornady 140 SP
WW cases / WLR primers
49 gr H4831SC
3.15 OAL
2710 fps

All velocities are instrumental taken on an Oehler 35P with center screen 15" from muzzle.  All are consistent MOA or better loads.  All ar quite deadly with the 100 gr HPs being a great varmint load. The 120s subbice as an all around load for vermints and deer/antelope.  The 140 gr Hornady SP load is and excellent deer/bear and elk load.  I have taken several deer with it and one elk.

Larry Gibson

[buckfever 1]

I also have great accuracy with 120 grn. Barnes TSX and Speer Hot Core.  I was using RL-19 and it is my go to load for deer.  Buckfever

[WyoStillhunter]

The job is settled for this season:  Hdy. 140 gr. Spitzer, Win. brass, CCI 200, and 46.3 gr. Re22.  My last two groups fired at 200 yards from a sitting position were centered on the bullseye using the fixed-power $X scope.  On 8/20 a 3-shot group went 4.05" and on 8/25 a 5-shot group from a cold/clean barrel went 5.25".  Those groups won't win any postal matches but they are realistic measures of what I can expect in the field.  Practice is more important now than trying to shave an inch off of the group size by tweeking the load and shooting off the bench.

We've all heard the old saying, "Beware the one-gun man."  I've never been able to commit to only one gun but I see great value in the idea of one load per gun.  Sweetwater makes a good point with his story.

Last year I committed a beginner's mistake by shooting a 265 gr. load in my .444 Marlin while it was sighted in for a 300 gr. bullet.  I got lucky.  At 51 paces the bullet hit about 6" from my point of aim, landing in the spine and dropping the raghorn bull on the spot.  After the meat was in the freezer I got to scratching my head about that shot, became suspicious of what I had done wrong and went to the range to test my theory.  Sure enough, from a kneeling position at the 50 yard line the 300 gr. load went right in the bullseye and the 265 gr. load went 6" high and left.

At age 61 I felt really stupid about such a basic mistake.  All's well that ends well.  Sometime, not often, luck is better than skill.  The results of my 2007 mistake:

[james]

Good luck on your lope hunt. I wish I was coming back to WY this year goat hunting but guess I'll chase elk in Colo.  My buddy, daughter and I took 3 bucks and 3 does in the Thunder Basin last year.  My daughter used a 6.5 x 55 Encore to take hers and I used it for my buck.  We were shooting 120 gr Hornadys with Varget at 2650 fps.    With the scope dead on at 250 yards you can put the crosshairs on the spine and make a perfect 385 yard shot.    I loaded the 120 grainers for my 14 yr. old daughter because she doesn't like the recoil.   I'll use 140 grain bullets in my custom 6.5 x 55,  but I haven't got to shoot it much yet.   The first two shots (139 gr Horn. w/ 39 gr. Varget) were touching, using a 4 wheeler seat for a rest. The third shot opened it up to about an inch.  I'll try some more loads off a bench before I get back to WY. 

[Siskiyou]

Sounds like you have a good load already.  I have found that my 6.5 Swede likes 120-grain, and 140 grain bullets.  At 100-yards it puts 120-grain C-L and 140-grain Nosler PT into the same group.  I have since purchased 500, 140-grain C-L(Cor-Lock), which are accurate in my rifle and average 2600 fps.

I suspect that both 120-grain and 140-grain bullets will perform great on antelope.  When I visited Wyoming I notice that on what many called a calm day the wind was blowing about ten miles an hour.  I noticed in Western Wyoming that mobile homes were park East-to-West so they would not be taking the wind broadside.  The “Wind Drift Factor” might be a consideration.  I happen to like the 100-yard shot, but my best antelope came at 250-plus yards.  The question in my mind is would I have taken the shot at 400-yards.  On a windy day the “Wind Drift Factor” is a prime factor in taking the shot.  I think you 140-grain Hornaday bullet will hold up better at 300 or 400 yards in a stiff wind then a lighter bullet.  I happen to have handy a print out on the 140-grain Hornady bullet.  Launched at 2550 fps it drifts 3.48 inches at 200 yards in a 10mph cross wind.  At 400-yards it has drifted 14.3 inches. 

[Sweet 6.5]

Hi

Here in South Africa we have a magazine called Magnum. One of the contributers has a
6.5x57. His load is 140gr Hornadys at 2600fps. He used this load successful on black wildebeest, kudu
and Oryx as well as a bunch of smaller animals.

He had no problem breaking both the shoulders of a wildebeest or oryx. Weight retention after breaking heavy bone
was not that good, but he never had any penetration problems.

I think the magic is in the slow velocity. I have hunted 7 animals with my 6.5x55 since I received it 3 years
ago, all 7 were one shot kills.

Enjoy the hunt

Sweet

[BBF]

Siskiyou:
Bullet weight has little to do with drift. What matters is how fast does the bullet get to the target.

Keping in mind that at long range a lighter bullet which starts out faster at the muzzle will also slow down more then a heavier bullet leaving at a lower MV which will maintain more speed over the distance so they could end up having similar flight times.

[Siskiyou]

Matching published ballistics obtain in laboratory setting in the field may or may not work.  Having used a Chrony for a few years, I have found that standard factory ammunition normally falls short. 

I have achieved an average velocity of 2600 fps with the 140-grain Remington C-L at 6700 feet elevation.  I have not had the time to fire the 120-grain Remington C-L loads that my brother gave me across the Chrony. 

I will take the journey to my Sierra ballistic program and see what it tells me regarding wind drift with a Speer 120-grain bullet drive by a maximum charge or Viht N160.  The book shows a velocity of 2895 fps.  The cross wind is 10 mph.

200-yard drift of 2.78 inches
400-yard drift of 11.92 inches

One of the things I have picked up over the years using this program is that Speer makes a good bullet.

Using the same program but this time the 140-grain Hornady at 2550 feet per second with a cross wind of 10 mph.
 
200-yard drift of 2.62 inches
400-yard drift of 11.15 inches

Just for fun I will toss in the 140-grain Remington C-L that I am loading at 2600 fps.

200-yard drift of 2.74 inches
400-yard drift of 11.69 inches

I was given my 6.5x55 by a brother who is has invested heavily into 6.5 caliber rifles, including the .256 Newton (6.5-06), a 6.5x55 Model 70 Winchester, a 6.5X257 Roberts, and 6.5x284 Winchester.  Frankly he is the starving gunsmiths dream.  He has loaded them with bullets from light to heavy.  He has taken deer with 6.5 bullets ranging from 108-grains to 160-grains.  He has proven to me that range of bullets is very effective on deer.

When brother was having the 6.5x.284 built I did a bunch of research on loads for it.  It seems that the long-range shooters go for the 139+ bullet weight.
http://www.6mmbr.com/sixfive284.html

I envy those who own modern rifles in the caliber.  I build my loads around the Swede 96 action and recommended loads for it.  I can attest the old Swede does a good job on Mule deer.


 

[mjbgalt]

ummm...according to hodgdon, 47 grains of varget with that 100 grain bullet, you are 5 grains over the MAX.


-Matt

[Sweet 6.5]

One of the things I have picked up over the years using this program is that Speer makes a good bullet.
I envy those who own modern rifles in the caliber.  I build my loads around the Swede 96 action and recommended loads for it.  I can attest the old Swede does a good job on Mule deer.

+1

[Larry Gibson]

ummm...according to hodgdon, 47 grains of varget with that 100 grain bullet, you are 5 grains over the MAX.


-Matt

"MAX" what?

Pressure? Not hardly as I also have an Oehler M43 and the pressure is within pressure specs of tested milsurp Swedish ammo, 51-56,000 psi (M43). They probably should have a decent idea of what their rifles are capable of don't you think?  Please don't come back and tell me that SR Mausers are only safe for 45,000 psi loads. That is based on the old copper crusher measuring system. Current transducers and strain gauges measure the psi differently.  I've seen SAAMI pressures for the 6.5 Swede as from 52-54,000 psi (modern measuring methods) average operating pressure.   

How about it is simply "MAX" for velocity. As all 6.5  caliber 100 gr bullets are pretty thin skinned (especially the Hornady) they won't take any velocity over 2950-3000 fps. The High RPMs of the fast twist in Swede barrels causes very poor accuracy and even bullet blow up at higher than those velocities.  That is my guess as to why all loading manuals keep the 100 gr varmint bullets under 3000 fps in the Swede.  The only varmint bullet of 100 gr weight to take the higher RPM of higher velocities in Swedes that I've found is the Sierra HP.

BTW; If you'd bother to look in Lyman's 48th Edition loading manual you'' find the Hodgdon MAX load for Varget with the 100 gr bullet is 3 gr over MAX of Lyman's! So who's manual is right?  Beats me but I know that I measured the pressure of these loads and know what is "MAX" and what isn't for the 100 gr Sierra HP. I also measured the pressure in a very minimum headspaced barrel. You can feel the bolt close on factory cases (a slight crush fit).

The load mentioned in my earlier post is quite safe and I've used it for some time in several different M38's and M96s. 

Larry Gibson

[mjbgalt]

a little defensive...i wasn't trying to attack you. i was trying to throw that out there, since GB policy is no postings containing dangerous loads. so you presented your side again and i will look into it and figure out the differences. i was just trying to protect people who might NOT look it up.

plus, i am just getting started loading this cartridge. i guess i will go "bother" looking it up in another manual. mine may be loads for the older mausers.

i am sure i could learn a lot from you, you've been doing this a lot longer than i have. i am just trying to determine the limits and the "rules" of pressure and velocity in this cartridge. seems like there is a heck of a big "gray" area.

-Matt

[mjbgalt]

so this applies to the 85-grain sierra too then? sounds like this is more due to bullet construction than anything at all to do with the mausers themselves.

i built mine on a 98k so i am sure it can take more than the small-ring rifles, so i am sure i have a "pad" built in if i chose to shoot max. i would rather not push it but it's nice to see that the swede is capable of more than those anemic velocities with the 100-grain bullet.

-Matt

[Larry Gibson]

Matt

Not defensive at all, just pointing out the "facts".  There are numerous (too many to mention) discrepencies in "MAX" loads between all the various loading manuals.  This is why most of us use the manuals as a reference instead of as a "bible".  If you can get a hold of a copy of Speer's #10 Manual there is an excellent article by Jack O'Conner titled "Pressures and the Handloader".  I know that probably sounds "so like last year' but it is an excellent article and may give you a better insight than the "thou shalt not exceed" mentality we see so often in todays litigous society. 

I have been using a chronograph since '74. While a chronograph can not tell you the pressures of a load it can, with the selection of proper componants, generally keep you safe.  My own experimentation have taken me that one tep farther with the M43 Oehler Personal Ballistics laboratory.  With it I am tracking the pressures, the velocities and the down range performance of 24 cartridges.  It is very informative.  I have found that a couple of my previous loads were borderline like the 190 gr '06 load i use for elk hunting. However I knew I was pushing the limit when I developed that load. It is slightly over the SAAMI "allowable" average pressure for the '06 but does not exceed the allowable pressure for the magnum cartridges in the action (M70) I use it in.  Almost all the other loads I developed over the years have proven to be within safe SAAMI parmeters. Let me say that is the loads I devolped that I regularly use. I have had my faux paux's in my earlier years when I alsways like to push the envelope.  With older milsurp actions I stay within accepted pressures and don't report any loads that exceed those. Reloading is a wonderful pastime and i hope you enjoy it as much as I have and do.

Larry Gibson

[john keyes]

I measured the pressure of these loads and know what is "MAX" and what isn't for the 100 gr Sierra HP. I also measured the pressure in a very minimum headspaced barrel. You can feel the bolt close on factory cases (a slight crush fit).

The load mentioned in my earlier post is quite safe and I've used it for some time in several different M38's and M96s. 

Larry Gibson

How did you measure the pressure?

 

[Sweetwater]

Larry Gibson +1!!!! Well put! Reference manual vs Reloading Bible mentality takes lots of experience and learned lessons. Once achieved, you find a whole new apprecition for what you are creating at your loading bench. Your weapon is your 'bible' and it needs careful, attentive reading.

Matt - My first Swede was on a M96 surplus action. My present one is a Ruger MKII. You are correct believing your M98 will take more pressure than your M96. My M98 is an 8x57 and I won't quote where youth and stupidity took me with it, but the spent primer fell on the ground and I never did have a sticky bolt upon extraction. I'm still here to tell the story. That M98 is built for stout! The manuals are great guides and the GB policy on quoting loads is good and proper.  We don't need to be quoting 'rocket' loads to the newer reloaders as they are testing the waters of reloading. We do need to encourage 'research and development'. Every barreled action is an entity unto itself and, as such, creates its own set of limitations. While exploring the vast amounts of material that is available, you will learn to read your rifle, or handgun as the case may be, and it will talk to you. All you need to do is learn to listen to it, using the manuals as intended, as guides. In reality, there are few cartridges that benefit from hot-rodding, but there are some. And there is material to guide that, also. Happy Handloading!

Wyo - wish I were there! My great uncle homesteaded in Saratoga, Wy - I know where you call home! Be sure to update us after the hunts, and don't let a calm day upset your windage! LOL My friends in Laramie were always saying they had stronger winds than we had in Green River. I said they were welcome to it.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[WyoStillhunter]

Will do, Sweetwater.  My antelope season opens September 20 but I will not be able to hunt until about a week later.

[Larry Gibson]

I measured the pressure of these loads and know what is "MAX" and what isn't for the 100 gr Sierra HP. I also measured the pressure in a very minimum headspaced barrel. You can feel the bolt close on factory cases (a slight crush fit).

The load mentioned in my earlier post is quite safe and I've used it for some time in several different M38's and M96s. 

Larry Gibson

How did you measure the pressure? 

Oehler M43 Personal Ballistics Laboratory.

Larry Gibson

 

[bearmgc]

I got cloverleafs at 100yds with Privi Partisan SP BT. Big shock. Better than the 1.25in groups with Winchester. That's what I'm taking to the Big Sandy tomarrow for antelope. Good luck to all hunters.

[WyoStillhunter]

I must admit to a logistical error: I ran out of Re22 and the ammo I loaded with it.  I would have been okay but I decided to replace the scope on my rifle last night. After sighting in today I only have a few rounds of the loaded ammo left...not enough to hunt antelope, deer, and maybe even elk.  That's the bad news.

The good news is I have 1 lb.+ of Re19 on hand.  So today I loaded up 16 rounds of Re19/45.0gr., 140 gr. Hdy. SP Interlock, Frontier brass and CCI 200 Primers.  I thought I was through with benchrest testing but I guess I will be back at the range tomorrow morning.  You gotta love it.

In 5 days my wife and I are off on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land and I just refuse to spend another $25.00 (+/-) for a pound of Re22 when I have Re19 on hand.

Antelope season begins 9/20 but I'll be tied up with the trip until about 9/26.  Wyoming offers great big game hunting for residents but it all happens at once.  Antelope starts 9/20, deer runs 10/1 - 10/14, and elk goes from 10/15 to the end of October.  It's a whirlwind and then it's all over.

I have two or three range sessions to get a Re19 load dialed in before Sunday.  There's no time to waste now.

[WyoStillhunter]

I hit the range about 7:15 a.m. today.  It's nice to have it all alone and be able to move at your own pace.

One shot with old load to foul the barrel.  One shot with new load (140 gr. Hdy. SP, 45.0 gr. Re19) at 25 yds.  Almost dead center.  Three shots with new load at 100 yards with the third shot called "a little to the right."  That gave me a 1.40" group centered 2.25" above POA. 

I took the target frame to 200 yards and fired a 3-shot group.  As I approached the target I could see no holes...but, wait!  There, centered in the black was a nice 3.50" triangle.     A total of 8 shots fired -- Mission Accomplished.

I even had time to pick up a couple Krispy Kreme donuts and get to the 8:30 a.m. staff meeting on time.  If I don't fire another shot until I have an antelope in my sights, I'm good to go.

[Sweetwater]

Somedays, the Lord just smiles upon you and makes easy your task. He sure blessed you on the range! I've added this to my notes for when my Re22 is gone, as I do have a pound of Re19 on hand.
I've never hunted in the Snowy Range, only in the Wyoming and Wind River Ranges. Most of my antelope were between Farson and Big Sandy Openings. My biggest was just a bit North of Little America, west of the Green River.
Sept 25th is rapidly approaching - best of luck and the Lord's blessings on your trip to the Holy Land and coming hunting season. Keep us posted.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Reloader]

I think this load would work well on antelope.

[canon6]

reloader , my old 6.5 would shoot that load ( with 46gr) into groups I hesitate to mention.
It dropped antelope, and mule deer drt.     Doug