Author Topic: 45/70 Hornady leverEvolution brass ??'s (Read 2313 times)

stimpylu32 · « **on:** August 16, 2008, 06:13:42 AM »

Has anyone ever talked to Hornady to see just why the cases are so much shorter that a standard 45/70 case ? There must be some reasoning behind their idea .

Is it just because of the bullet that their using ? or the fact that they don't want it used for reloading ?

It just perplexes me that they would make this ammo on a short case when all other ammo companies use standard spec brass .

stimpy

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #1 on:** August 16, 2008, 08:21:36 AM »

When it first hit the market, I asked them about it. They said it was to maintain proper OAL with the bullet being used.

j104wd · « **Reply #2 on:** August 16, 2008, 03:36:08 PM »

wondered that too guess Ill just hang on to mine if they ever decide to release the bullets as components

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** August 16, 2008, 04:37:20 PM »

As a young man, I loaded .38 Specials long to shoot in my .357. Is there any reason this couldn't be done with these short .45-70 cases? Couldn't you just crimp in one of the lower grooves of a cast lead bullet to get the correct OAL?

RugerNo3 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2008, 11:20:28 AM »

Using short brass in a chamber for a longer cartridge will result in a carbon ring buildup. It must be cleaned out or there is a danger of raised pressures when firing a standard cartridge in that chamber. That carbon buildup prevents the brass from expanding and releasing the bullet when fired. Outside of 22 rimfires, it is not good practice to fire short cases in longer chambers without cleaning the chamber extensively AND inspecting the chamber to be sure this carbon is removed. To a good reloader it is foolish to be doing this as well as wasting time cleaning. Load lighter loads in the proper brass and enjoy.

Swampman · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2008, 11:23:07 AM »

Ok, well I shot tens of thouands of them without a hitch. Just lucky I guess..........

ECV Slick · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2008, 06:01:35 PM »

Quote from: j104wd on August 16, 2008, 03:36:08 PM

wondered that too guess Ill just hang on to mine if they ever decide to release the bullets as components

Hornady really made a HUGE mistake by using short brass and not selling their bullets to reloaders... I used to use Hornady projo's almost exclusively. Because of their stance, I went ahead and just ordered a 1000 rounds of .45-70 brass from Starline and use Remington, Nosler, and Oregon Trail bullets. The outstanding results I'm getting, makes me kind of glad that hornady blew their chance with me..

Troyboy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2008, 01:22:55 PM »

I was gonna try some of this ammo in my 45/70 and my 450. Guess i won't now. No reason to buy ammo you can't reload.

petemi · « **Reply #8 on:** August 19, 2008, 08:52:04 AM »

Stimpy, I've got boxes of this stuff. Has anyone got a solution to reloading them? I just thought they were standard .45-70 cases. I love the way they shoot, but I won't buy any more if I can't reload them. Thanks, Pete

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 19, 2008, 11:08:23 AM »

Pete

I haven't bought any for that very reason , that being said , I think they should work fine if you were to load them with Unique or Trail Boss for light plunking loads were pressures were kept at a lower level .

You could also load with the bullet seated future out when using case bullets and still keep within the SAAM spec for COAL .

Not sure I would want to load any real heavy loads with these cases being shorter and case cap being reduced if a jacketed bullet was seated to the cantilever.

stimpy

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #10 on:** August 19, 2008, 12:18:42 PM »

If you're loading a single shot, and don't have to worry much about crimp, you can just load to the original longer OAL (or longer if you're throated) and go shooting.

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** August 19, 2008, 12:30:53 PM »

The .45-70 Carbine load produced by the US Government had a case length of 2.550 and contained 55 grains of blackpowder. Are the Hornady cases that long? If the government did it, it's probably practical. If I had some, I'd load them up. It's just like shooting .38 Specials in a .357.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 19, 2008, 01:06:41 PM »

2.55? No they aren't that long...are you sure you aren't talking COL? Standard 45-70 cases are 2.105. Lever Evolutions are 2.035. I haven't even tried to load any, I won't ever buy a second box.

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** August 19, 2008, 03:48:35 PM »

Here are the dimensions for the .45-70 Carbine Load. It looks like the case legnth is the same as the rifle load....my bad!

http://www.frfrogspad.com/springfi.htm

petemi · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2008, 03:45:44 AM »

I've got about 75 standard .45-70 brass and as many bullets. I guess I'll just reload them for deer and bear and follow Stimpy's suggestion for a lighter load for plinking and smaller game. It's a shame, 'cause I've got about 250 Hornadys. I guess I'll be working with Federal, Winchester or Rems from here on out. I might try Buffalo Bore magnums also. I didn't get a bear or elk tag this year, so it isn't a critical problem. Thanks for the good info, Richard. Pete

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 21, 2008, 02:57:02 PM »

Track of the Wolf has pretty good prices on bulk 45-70 Starline.

cobraa · « **Reply #16 on:** August 22, 2008, 02:06:29 AM »

Quote from: ECV Slick on August 17, 2008, 06:01:35 PM

Quote from: j104wd on August 16, 2008, 03:36:08 PM
wondered that too guess Ill just hang on to mine if they ever decide to release the bullets as components

Hornady really made a HUGE mistake by using short brass and not selling their bullets to reloaders... I used to use Hornady projo's almost exclusively. Because of their stance, I went ahead and just ordered a 1000 rounds of .45-70 brass from Starline and use Remington, Nosler, and Oregon Trail bullets. The outstanding results I'm getting, makes me kind of glad that hornady blew their chance with me..

what brand Primer do ya use with ya Starline 45-70 brass ?

and why would ya want to shoot Hornady factory ammo when ya can reload and shoot groups lke these.. there is 2 loads there with scaned targets to prove the load that work great no need for anything eles...
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,136629.0.html

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 22, 2008, 03:09:05 PM »

They had to shorten the case to make their proprietary soft point bullet in their Lever Evolution cycle thru Marlins 1895 which is what these were designed for.

LE ammo on the left standard 300 grain ammo on the right in the normal case.

Mac

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #18 on:** August 23, 2008, 04:06:38 AM »

Has anyone tryed loading the shorter brass? Seems like it might be useful at times with some of the longer bullets with the short throats on the 45-70. Any thoughts? DP

bishopgrandpa · « **Reply #19 on:** August 23, 2008, 04:23:25 AM »

Have several leverguns and Ruger #1's. The #1 has a very short throat and will not take Hornady 350's unless I use the short LE case. Works great now. Do not discard the LE cases. You will be able to use them. Try using the RCBS 500 grain bullets with the short case. That works to.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 23, 2008, 04:26:57 AM »

You'd have a smaller case volume with a increase pressure. There would be no way to know what pressure you'd get. I also found that the cases are slightly under spec diameter at the base as well, mine showed a visible expantion ring at the base that scared the heck out of me since they were the first rounds I put through my BC. I don't get this from Remington, Winchester, or Starline brass, just Lever Evolution.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 23, 2008, 04:28:53 AM »

You have a #1 with a short throat? That's a first. I thought thay were all supposed to have like 2 1/2 inch freebore.

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #22 on:** August 24, 2008, 05:52:02 PM »

Guys, I thought I'd explain my reply:

Quote

If you're loading a single shot, and don't have to worry much about crimp, you can just load to the original longer OAL (or longer if you're throated) and go shooting.

Even with the shorter case length of the Hornady, you can still use them if you load to recommended OAL for the stock case.

You'll notice that if both are loaded to 2.550, the powder space (boiler room) is the same; no pressure increase. The only difference is the crimping grooves are now offset (the 405 Rem top cannalure is almost perfect for the Hornady case when loaded to recommended OAL). This won't bother single-shot shooters, and shouldn't bother lever-action guys.......you can still get an adequate crimp by adjusting the crimp die or by removing the primer punch rod and then just running the loaded round back into the sizing die about 1/8" (you can feel it) for a perfect taper crimp.

This shows the relationship of the Remington 300 and the 405 grain bullets to the cannalures.

The brass is good stuff and should not be tossed just because it's short. If you worry about carbon build up in the chamber..............clean your rifle.