Author Topic: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends  (Read 5448 times)

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Offline zombiewolf

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2008, 11:31:08 AM »
Some people never have to deal with real bad motor-scooterists like we did a couple of weeks ago("Los Hermanos" stopped in my small berg) in Missoula during the "Testicle Festival"

Taxpayers footed the bill for more than 117,000$ in overtime for police and other contract security....
Fortunately, there were only a few fist fights this time....here's an older article from the Missoulian 2000.
I think it coveys the kind of atmosphere we have to deal with every time these dudes come to town!





Rules of engagement
By MICHAEL JAMISON of the Missoulian

Missoula officials prepare for the unpredictable

Missoula Police Chief Pete Lawrenson hefts several pounds of book, slaps it like a Baptist thumps the Good Book on Sunday morning, and waves it in front of his nose.

"What am I worried about?" he asks, voice rising. "I'm worried about this book
"This is the Montana Criminal Statutes," he says. "I'm worried about offenses against the public order, offenses against people, offenses against property, drugs, vehicle offenses."

He's worried, in short, about the Hells Angels, the world's most celebrated and feared motorcycle club.

Hells Angels are not known for subscribing to the tenets held dear in Lawrenson's book.

And in the heart of the Missoula summer, when the heat may already be as high as it can get, the
highwaymen from Hell will be lighting up the pipes on hundreds of stripped-down, chopped-up
custom-made Harley-Davidsons, scorching Montana's roadways for their July 27-31 bash.

"I don't have any reason to believe that they will follow the rules in this book," Lawrenson says.

What should Missoula expect when the Hells Angels come to town?

Four years ago, at a similar Hells Angels' "run" in Steamboat Springs, Colo., police threw the book at them, and the Angels used it to light a barbecue. Two years later, in 1998, when the annual run thundered into Ventura, Calif., police reinforced the book's spine with a few hundred extra officers, and all was peaceful as a spring picnic on a church lawn.

Predicting the outcome of any Hells Angels gathering is tricky business. If these bikers can, in fact, be defined, the one word that seems to fit is "unpredictable."

People in positions like Lawrenson's don't much care for unpredictability.

"We're trying to predict very unpredictable events," he says. He doesn't know what to expect that last weekend in July.

Lawrenson began talking with the Hells Angels way back in early January. He, like other police chiefs before him, was told by the Angels that the run will be strictly a social event, centered on tourism and recreation, on families and wives and kids and good ol' American fun.

Lawrenson isn't so sure.

"We have reason to believe that while they do, in fact, come in with their families, it is not entirely a family event," he says.

He says he's heard too many stories to believe in a kinder, gentler Hells Angels - too many stories of drugs and drink, of shootings and stabbings, of fist fights and bar fights and gang fights and of entire towns taken over by beer-swilling bikers with a corner on shock value.

"I really don't think shooting people is a recreational activity," Lawrenson says. "And blocking the police from a crime scene is not your usual tourist activity."

Lawrenson is referring to the 1996 gathering in Steamboat Springs, where two Angels were shot, likely by other Angels, and police were kept at bay until the evidence had been scoured clean.

"I don't think they'll roll in and terrorize the community," he says. "But I do think that, as individuals, some of the Hells Angels are criminals."

He calls them a "drug distribution network" with "no respect for law enforcement."

"I certainly don't think there's a place for that in western Montana," he says. "If they want to come and recreate, we'll welcome them with open arms."

Actually, he means with a brigade of open arms.

Lawrenson, trying to prepare for an unknown, already has begun calling in reinforcements, making arrangements with other agencies throughout Montana and elsewhere to have extra law enforcement on hand. It's a strategy that law enforcement agencies across America have found effective in quelling Hells Angels' hijinks before they start.

"You need enough cops to make a show," advises Mark Coronado, patrol officer with the Ventura Police Department. "They have to know that the cops have enough numbers; that the cops will come in and go to war with them if it comes to that."

Otherwise, he says, "They'll come in and take over a town, especially if your police aren't prepared. They'll do what they want. They'll literally do anything they want."

What they want, says George Christie, is to be left alone, like any other tourist, without harassment from police or locals. They aren't a curious spectacle, he says. They're on vacation.

Christie is president of the Ventura Hells Angels, and from his leadership perch can, in fact, see some predictability within the chaos of the Angels. He predicts the group will try to book an entire hotel, secluding themselves and reducing the possibility of conflict between themselves and other guests.

Perhaps they'll find a place out of town where they can party without disturbing or being disturbed. "The bars are going to be very popular," he says.

They might try to rent an entire bar, he says, or they might not: "Sometimes, the party's the more, the merrier."

Some Missoula business owners already are rolling out the welcome mat. Steve Garr, owner of the Top Hat, has told the Angels they're welcome in his bar.

"I made it clear to the local constabulary here that I didn't have any fears about allowing any group into my bar," he says. "I don't consider the Hells Angels gangsters or criminals, and I don't expect any trouble."

Perhaps he hasn't read Lawrenson's book.

Garr, who booked concerts in the San Francisco Bay area during the late 1960s, came to know the Angels of old quite well. He often hired them as security guards at his shows.

"I can't imagine guys coming for vacation causing any trouble," he says.

But even Christie acknowledges that trouble is something that often finds the Hells Angels, whether they want it or not.

"I won't kid or patronize anyone in Missoula," Christie says. "We are a group of individuals that draw people to us. And when you have that kind of magnetism, you draw people with positive attitudes and people with negative attitudes, and we're ready to deal with whichever faction we encounter."

He says he hopes not to encounter the negative attitude. He hopes instead to relax, to see Angels he hasn't seen all year. He hopes to talk Angel talk and to explore the downtown and eat at good restaurants and ride with his head bared to the Big Sky.

A thousand miles from Montana, sitting in the Ventura clubhouse, safe behind jail-like security designed to keep people out rather than in, Christie asks a handful of Angels what they want to do in Missoula. A mountain of a man, well-spoken, his gold earring catching a slip of afternoon light, quickly turns the conversation to his favorite diversion.

"What's the trout fishing like up there?" he asks. He's fluent in the fishing lingo - leads and poly-booties and woolly buggers - and wants to know if Norman Maclean's Big Blackfoot runs near town.

What can Missoulians expect?

"I think they're going to find that the people they meet are intelligent and articulate and not much
different from themselves," Christie says. "I think the town is going to have a lot of fun."

He promises a show - if nothing else, a "parade of custom motorcycles and colorful individuals."

But Christie also knows the Hells Angels well enough to know that, with just a bit of provocation, there could, rather easily, be another show. And so, he says he hopes "that the Missoula police force has enough manpower and firepower to handle anything that comes along, because that's their job."

He worries that, too often, small-town police chiefs hand control of Hells Angels gatherings to the ever-present federal agents, who, he says, are as inevitable as faded tattoos at any Angel get-together.

"I would hope that the police chief in Missoula would be courageous enough to run his town as he sees fit," Christie says.

And Lawrenson, book still near at hand, says Christie needs not worry on that point.

He will pull in extra law enforcement from around the region, he says - "how far and wide, we don't know" - but he will remain in command, sharing the lead role with Missoula County Sheriff Doug Chase.

The two already have been meeting with city and county officials, briefing them on preparations for the day the Harleys roar into town. In early April, Lawrenson met with the mayor, sheriff, county commissioners and assorted staffers, telling them, as best he could, what to expect.

He told them about the Angels' suspected drug trafficking activities, about his estimate that 75 percent to 80 percent of Hells Angels are convicted felons, that many have experience with firearms and explosives and that many, if not most, of the bikers will be armed.

The weapon of choice, Lawrenson says, is the ball-peen hammer, a handy item Christie says is standard tool-kit fare when riding a temperamental and finely tuned Harley cross country.

Lawrenson, reflecting on Christie's explanation, notes that his department has three Harley-Davidsons, and not one officer has found it necessary to carry a ball-peen hammer.

"So, George, I don't quite get it," he says.

What he does get is that, even if the Hells Angels don't start any trouble, trouble might find them
anyway, and the Angels will be more than capable of finishing it.

"There's a certain mystique about the Hells Angels," says Missoula County Sheriff Doug Chase. "And there's going to be people who will want to go down, to meet with the Hells Angels, to mingle, to look at the bikes. That concerns us."

Ventura's Coronado agrees.

"Everyone with a bike will come to rub elbows with the Hells Angels," he says. "Hollywood will come to watch. Young girls will come to party."

Kris Haldane, a Ventura restaurant owner who knows Christie and the Angels well, also knows all about those young girls.

"You will see some awesome bikes," she says, "some incredible, beautiful bikes."

But, she has a warning: "Worry about your daughters. Be aware - 16-, 17-, 18-year-old girls like the bad boys, and these boys are as bad as it gets. Nobody knows how to party like the Hells Angels."

Chase is less worried about the town's daughters than he is about "those people who don't understand the chemistry and the volatility and get themselves into a situation way, way beyond anything they're ready for."

"The majority of people in this town don't understand how quickly things can turn around and go bad," he says.

Lawrenson does, and so he's preparing.

"For us not to be prepared would not be acceptable," Lawrenson says.

Chase is quick to jump in.

"That does not mean that we have to create a war zone, though," he says. "We're not gearing up for Armageddon. We're just preparing.

"We don't want to prepare for a battle if it can be precluded by good communication," Chase adds. "It's a matter of respect from both sides. I have to respect them, and I hope they respect me. That doesn't
mean I have to like them. That doesn't mean I have to welcome them to my community."

But that's not to say they won't be welcomed at all.

"We don't want any trouble," Lawrenson says. "And I don't believe the Hells Angels are coming here to take over the town and wreak havoc. As long as they come and obey the laws and recreate and have a nice vacation, then I say, 'Welcome one and all.' Missoula is known for its interesting diversity.

"But I wonder," he adds. "And I wonder because with the Hells Angels, their reputation precedes them."





 So,please don't cry about your little inconvenience with some rude cycle enthusiasts. It is pathetic.
   

Offline ironglow

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2008, 03:08:05 PM »


   Guess it depends upon what kind of world you want to live in..perhaps you forgot, The header for this thread is ..talk to your friends.  I assume most decent
   cyclists would not like to be considered carbon copies of the criminal gangs..of course, I could be wrong !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline weasel

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2008, 03:48:57 PM »
Seen kinda the same thing in Twin Falls this spring, couple of bikes blocked off both lanes, within seconds there was a 10 minute "parade" of bikes, if a parade can manage 40 mph in a 25 mph zone and it was an intersection with a stop light. I'm being conservitive on the 40 mph guess. The guy blocking our lane acted as if we were trespassing. I don't have a problem with blocking an intersection, the speeding and belligerant attitude, I do.

Having said that, I have a few bikes myself and I've probably pi$$ed off folks also.

Offline powderman

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2008, 04:42:09 PM »
I too used to ride but quit years ago. I have a best friend that was badly burned 20 years ago and gets a full disability check. He was burned bad enough that 2 fingers were amputated, is diabetic, and on dialysis 3x a week. He rode a 3 wheeler, I believe it was called ecxtasy, made in Indiana, had a 350 chevy engine in it, and was very fast. He got to riding with some guys, and shooting still board with them. Turns out they  were members of the grim reapers. He had a big debt and was offered $6,000 cash for his bike, he accepted. The guy never paid him a dime, forged his name on the title, then sold it. My buddy got the shaft. He's afraid to go to the police. Any advice??? POWDERMAN.  :( :( :( :( :( :(
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Offline Cheesehead

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2008, 04:53:28 PM »
Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends


mmmmmmmmmm..............

I don't think so.

They don't need a second hand repremand about a thing so minor its just too thin skinned and trivial.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2008, 05:03:49 PM »
Myronman,

Livin the "thug life" looks pretty good, according to the pic, very cool!

Cheese aka nasty biker gangsta thug
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline myronman3

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2008, 09:29:29 PM »
I too used to ride but quit years ago. I have a best friend that was badly burned 20 years ago and gets a full disability check. He was burned bad enough that 2 fingers were amputated, is diabetic, and on dialysis 3x a week. He rode a 3 wheeler, I believe it was called ecxtasy, made in Indiana, had a 350 chevy engine in it, and was very fast. He got to riding with some guys, and shooting still board with them. Turns out they  were members of the grim reapers. He had a big debt and was offered $6,000 cash for his bike, he accepted. The guy never paid him a dime, forged his name on the title, then sold it. My buddy got the shaft. He's afraid to go to the police. Any advice??? POWDERMAN.  :( :( :( :( :( :(
yes, as a matter of fact i do.   dont write checks your a$$ cant cash.  if'n your friend was gambling, and lost his shirt, it is on him.   if he would have won, i am sure he would have taken their money without a second thought.
  whether your friend ever rode or not, and who he was gambling with is a moot point.   if you do stupid things, bad things will happen to you.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2008, 02:34:07 AM »
#1--No one is talking about anything other than rudeness---that is all. No beer, no guns, no murder, no rape, no mob.
Rude is rude however and cannot be tolerated in children much less adults.
I know small towns--they are a far cry from a large town, much less a city. People live and let live.
This is a far cry from any of the discussion I have heard. It is not a city. It is a small town and a group of riders ignoring common sense, not too mention common courtesy.
A group cannot go into a small town and just ignor the law, rules of society just because it is a burg, with no particular reason for being.
This is exactly what I see the defense as saying.
IG is not a known liar or person who says things willy-nilly as some of those who reside here do on occasion. I am going too take his side until I see a posting from someone else who was there.
I understand, too a degree, the stance of those who ride. I have not heard form any who ride that is the way they would have conducted theirownselves.
This was rude conduct and should not be expected from adults.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Dee

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2008, 03:15:41 AM »
   you are also very lucky you didnt step out in front of someone like me.      

This remark brings up an old saying that I have heard all my life. And in this case it is not only appropriate , but good advice to even myron, whom sounds some what too macho AND threatening, for his own safety.

But back to the saying: NEVER MET HORSE THAT COULDN'T BE RODE, AND NEVER MET A MAN THAT COULDN'T BE THROWED. ;)

Oh, and by the way, watch the old one's myron. My grandpa told me to never get on an old fart, because he'll get you off him, in a most unpleasant way.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline myronman3

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2008, 03:18:36 AM »
    the village i live in has 418 people in it.  i dont need a lecture about small town living; as i know almost everyone in my village and their families.  i also know how to live in a small town successfully.  my neighbors love me.  
   myownself,  whether alone or with friends,  if someone creates a road hazard in my path, there had better be a good legitimate reason for it.     if you put me in danger i dont appreciate it one bit.   i am one of those that will hold people accountable.
   and if you want to talk about rude, how about stepping out in front of the procession in the first place.   if you rode, i know you know what i am talking about.  in a group, the smallest thing can become a big hazard.  
  
Quote
A group cannot go into a small town and just ignor the law, rules of society just because it is a burg, with no particular reason for being.
 you sight "the law", yet you give i.g. a pass for just ignoring the law.  he  stepped out into traffic without having the right of way for no particular reason.   it is obvious that you are making different rules for different people based on your relationship with those people.   you give one guy a pass, yet convict others as "the defense".    this turd aint gonna float, i dont care how you try to spin it.   the way you present it, a resident can ignore the law.   and people who dont let it slide are rude.   you have a vicious double stand going william; and like i said before, you are all wet on this one.  
  i guareentee you that cars, trucks, and pedestrians commit offenses against motorcyclists at least 10 to 1.   and you and ironglow want those of us who ride to go talk to our breathern over such trivel, whiny, one sided b.s.?   life is full of disappointment.  if you let something like this ruin your day then you really need to something worthwhile to worry about.  

Offline myronman3

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2008, 03:40:50 AM »
   you are also very lucky you didnt step out in front of someone like me.      

This remark brings up an old saying that I have heard all my life. And in this case it is not only appropriate , but good advice to even myron, whom sounds some what too macho AND threatening, for his own safety.

But back to the saying: NEVER MET HORSE THAT COULDN'T BE RODE, AND NEVER MET A MAN THAT COULDN'T BE THROWED. ;)

Oh, and by the way, watch the old one's myron. My grandpa told me to never get on an old fart, because he'll get you off him, in a most unpleasant way.
  pretty funny.   you dont know a thing about me,  you are grouchy for whatever reason.  i deal with people like you all the time, and it is funny to me.   most times i am very respectful of my elders; but those that try the "i am older, therefore my way is THE way" routine, lose it instantly.  fact is you just dont the fact that i have told it like it is.    AND that i am right.
      as for those of you who think you have me figured,  you aint got a clue.   and if it makes you happy, you just keep on telling yourself that someone is gonna whip, beat or kill me.   or perhaps karma will strike me down.   whatever makes you happy.    i dont mean you guys any disrespect.  but i aint tucking my tail and hiding from you either.   
  you want wisdom?  here is something MY grandfather told me...."the older i get and the more i have seen and know, the more i realize i dont know."   i think that is definitively more profound than the old "there is always someone tougher".   i guess it boils down to a person's depth.

Offline myronman3

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2008, 03:44:32 AM »
Quote
having disdain for MC enthusiast and zero concept of 2 wheel riding often pulling a left turn in fron of a cyclists or switching lanes to demand and take R_O_W!
boy tm7, you nailed is better than i did.  it is all about distain and jealousy. 

Offline rex6666

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2008, 06:20:55 AM »
myron
sounds like your grandfather gave you some good advice, don't seem you heed it or understand it.
Their will always be someone bigger and badder, always has been, always will be, ask
any OLD bad guy . When a man reaches a certain age, he some how decides he does not have to put up with a lot of crap, their fore he is subject to end it fast. 8)
Rex
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2008, 07:41:45 AM »
TM & Myron
You try a justify rudeness because someone else did something too you. TAKE THAT UP WITH THAT PERSON.
Yor arguements are very illogical and do not stay on the arguement.
The fact is that they ignored the light or otherwise they would have need too stop. You can't block any intersection when you stop.
I have never been one that has recognized deviousness in IG. Perhaps you have but, not I---and i do recognize deviousness when I see it such as here in this little disagreement.
Now we will all get over it and forget it---not much too it anyway.
I see a lot of rudness on the part of  the riders. I don't see much more than impatience with rudeness on the part of IG.
Let's stick too the arguement at hand and not bring past disobedience into this.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Dee

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2008, 09:04:46 AM »
Well myronman3, I can see your attitude from here. I have had times that ironglow and I disagreed, however, he has never been disrespectful, or been threatening. As his post indicated, he seemed to be inquiring as to what to do in such a situation and was merely trying to, as is his nature, help some elderly folks get home.
You on the other hand came on like Rambo the Biker. I have given you some wisdom, and you have given me and everyone else attitude. You are however, right in that I don't know you. I do however know folks LIKE you. And I have had a lot of experience in dealing with their attitudes. And it worked every time. There are many out there just like me, that do what I used to do, and do it probably better. They are younger than I am now, and your attitude to them is a treat. Oh, and by the way. They will appreciate your not "turning tail and running", at least not to start with. They like it straight up. Makes for a more interesting day.
You have a nice day now, and keep up the good cheer. All good things come to an end they say. And it usually ends unexpectedly. ;)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline myronman3

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2008, 10:47:34 AM »
usually i dont get real nasty with folks, i slip now and then.   dee, on occasion you are right.  but, often you think way to much of yourself.   your kind of wisdom i dont need, the mistakes you fess up to making i would have never made in the first place, it seems kind of obvious to me.  so forgive me if i pass on your little pearls of wisdom. 
   i think it is a total riot that you say i am threating, yet it wasnt me that was talking about a "44 and having less to loose".   
   you are just trying to shut me up, and you cant do it.  beat me with facts, instead of your silly emotions.   
 
Quote
...I do however know folks LIKE you. And I have had a lot of experience in dealing with their attitudes. And it worked every time. There are many out there just like me, that do what I used to do, and do it probably better. They are younger than I am now, and your attitude to them is a treat. Oh, and by the way. They will appreciate your not "turning tail and running", at least not to start with. They like it straight up. Makes for a more interesting day. ...
  you are a bitter person; and full of hot air.  moreover a disgrace to the uniform you claim to have worn.   i would love to cross paths with a cop like you; for i would have so much fun dragging you in front of your boss, the judge, and finally the jury.   power-tripping cowards  with a badge are the biggest lowlifes of them all.  it is so funny how these big tough cops on the road are damn meek when standing in front of their boss when they are called on the carpet.  it is even funnier when the judge balls them out in court or even in the department head's office (yep, seen that too). 
   i am a good member of my community and respect all those who work hard to make it the place it is.   people who try to bully me with a badge learn very quick that i know my rights and how to handle them APPROPRIATELY.     now i am sure i have ruffled your feathers, and you know so much i might as well be talking to a brick.   for all i know i already am.   just know that i have dealt with your kind time and again and i have come out on top everytime.   
   one last note... being bitter like that will rot you from the inside out... it just isnt healthy.   lighten up! ;D

Offline myronman3

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2008, 10:54:35 AM »
 
Quote
One thing is for sure what we learned: those that take medications should take them to church in case they are held up by earthquakes, snow storms, fires, police actions, accidents, and biker parades.
i was thinking that as well. 

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2008, 12:20:48 PM »
disgusting performance

noise of motorcycles

our little town

continuous horn blowing

unnecessary horn blowing

the simple ones

monotonous parade

gunned their engines

"NEARLY" ran me over

mob setting

big mob

inconsiderate bores

plain hoodlums

For the most part it seems like a typical festive biker rally, all fun till IG decided to put a stop to it by stepping into traffic. Me thinks IG hates bikers. Things did not go his way so, well, you read his words, much anger and hate.

Cheese, a life long biker with no apologies.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2008, 12:56:51 PM »
   TM;
      Talk about misquoting..Please indicate the post # where I said someone other than Al Queda should be "roughed up by Marines" ? Until then..we can all be assured
  that it is YOU who have misquoted ME !
  
  TM & Myron:
     I mentioned the Marines, the wrestlers I have known, such a the Super Swedish Angel (420#), my brother, Nan Jo Singh
 (pro name) and Gorgeous George. My nephew Jay, one time holder of National super-heavyweight Golden Gloves (novice div) and one time winner all Alaska "tough guy"contest.
   ...A fellow who, when he announced his intentions to go for grizzly, folks that knew him asked if he was going to take a gun along..LOL
      I  simply used these examples of REALLY tough guys to illustrate that the really tough guys don't act rude and don't bully others.... Know what! They don't have
       to, they are confident in their manhood !
  I mentioned to you that I know many cyclists, even members of my family..oh yes my nephew Joel, 6'3", 340# and a guard in the toughest part of Attica prision..
   he rides a bike ..and never tries to intimidate anyone..he doesn't have to..he KNOWS he's tough ! All the people I mentioned are the most decent gentlemen you
  would be likely to meet ! Of the many wrestlers I have known only a couple sometimes acted like hoodlums..they had an alcohol problem.
     Dee told you a little fact that I perhaps didn't make clear with the story about my old friend Ed...
  See, when a man has lived all the years he needs or wants...don't tread on him..he has nothing to lose, any truly dangerous encounter then would boil down to
  .... Who has most to lose ?
  It doesn't have to get down to the Rambo aspects, I only suggested that for the image of your sport you speak to your friends. If these same friends were hunters
  would you join them in poaching, cutting fences, tearing down posted signs, shooting in the landowner's backyard and sundry other offenses ?
  Are some people above and beyond common courtesy ?
   You seem to think that since I am over 70, I am a dried up old geezer..hardly..I live clean, do hard work and venture to say I am in better shape than some of those
  large girthed ones I saw on Sunday.
    So you will know I am serious, I will print a recent pic of myself, my all Alaska superhvywt champ nephew..and my grandson, Special Ops Marine Martial Arts instructor
   with multiple belts...all three are civil gentlemen..their parents raised them to be complete MEN !
    
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2008, 01:09:19 PM »
On that day as described in the OP, IG was the BULLY, not the bikers.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2008, 01:32:52 PM »
IG was the BULLY, not the bikers.

I tried to make that point before Cheese.  On that day IG was the one being rude, discourteous and, by his actions - stepping into traffic, a danger to himself and the participating bikers.  Oh well, I wish he had contacted the organizers of the ride and voiced his opinion, finding out in the process what planning for traffic safety had been done.  Or even talked to his local LE about his concerns.  But instead this has degenerated into who's the biggest and baddest ...   :(
Richard
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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2008, 01:52:46 PM »
If nothing else it has been a good read the past couple days. I see both sides of the story and have no real opinion on who is right or wrong here. I think this is one of those times that all people involved have to agree to disagree. I am sure all involved believe deep with in them that they are the one in the right. Like I said I believe both sides have made valid points and it is time to just let it go. Dale
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Offline oldyardog

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2008, 02:50:44 PM »
I am an old rider now. At one time in the distant past I thought I was a badass. I believe if you check with anyone who deals with traffic on the public roads that the group of riders was doing exactly the correct thing to do.To get a large group of anything moving safely with the least inconvenience to the "Public" you move them as quickly as practical and with out interuption. Ask a LEO.

As far as trying to interfer with the flow of the group I think that was a lack of understanding.

I don't think I want to comment on some of the childish crap I have read on here. We all have our likes and dislikes.


Oldyardog

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2008, 03:19:00 PM »
Would any of you have been so rude?
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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2008, 03:42:28 PM »
Would any of you have been so rude?
Blessings
To be honest I have been driving for 26 years now. Many times I have have had someone hold up traffic for one reason or another. Most times it is a tractor trailer backing in somewhere or some road work going on. I do always stop for the person because I figure they must have a good reason to stop trafic. Then again I was not there although I would have stopped. That is just me though. I do have respect for other people. Dale
The quality of a mans life is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence.

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Offline myronman3

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2008, 03:52:08 PM »
On that day as described in the OP, IG was the BULLY, not the bikers.

Cheese
he TRIED  to be the bully.  it didnt fly. 

Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2008, 04:07:01 PM »
On that day as described in the OP, IG was the BULLY, not the bikers.

Cheese
he TRIED  to be the bully.  it didnt fly. 
I don't think he tried to be a bully. I just don't think he thought it through. Even if he did think it through he must of felt it was the thing to do at the time. I think his feelings are hurt a little because people did not heed him. That still does not make IG a bad person at all. He just did what he felt right at the time. Dale
The quality of a mans life is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence.

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Offline powderman

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2008, 04:28:31 PM »
myron. There was no gambling, the debt was medical related. The punk cheated him, end of story. Sorry I asked. I guess, according to you,  if you ride a bike right and wrong don't matter, or the law either. Tank made the mistake of trusting the guy, he lost. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2008, 04:31:28 PM »
Atlaw..
  Perhaps the local law was a bit careless in that there was no warning about such and surely there was no representation of the law anywhere in town, so I would assume at the traffic signal..but I still see no excuse for
  breaking the law at the traffic signal, nor for some of the rudness I received right here.
    To whom it may concern
    Again you are misconstruing..I don't know how often I must repeat..read twice, comment once..I said not one word about Marines "kicking butt", the ones I speak
   of , have done enough butt-kicking to last a lifetime..and they did it with guys whose rifles and machine guns hit just as hard as their own..SUCH as they ARE tough guys !
  
  Listen carefully..each of those tough guy groups I cited, was  only to show some folks that not all tough guys berate, belittle and intimidate their
  fellow citizens..read again..each of them is a gentleman that DOES NOT try to be some kind of "gangsta". I have observed over a lifetime, that men and women
  too, who are comfortable in their skin and are confident in their abilities..don't strut about like a banty rooster !
  My nephew Joel (the Attica prison guard) could probably take most people in a headlock and pop their skull like an over ripe grape..and he knows it..and everybody who
  knows him knows it ..but although I have seen him often take a small baby into his great, big hands and show much love..I surely don't expect him to squash any grapes..unless it is a life-or-death situation. He doesn't have to do any strutting or preening..his quiet words get attention. BTW: He has ridden since he was a teenager.
   ...Obviously, a matter of upbringing ! ;)  
  
   The one thought many seem to ignore..Sunday,I met with an unescorted, unflagged "convoy" that blocked people for about an hour..I requested ..NOT DEMANDED a break.
 I picked a somewhat open spot where I knew there would be plenty of stopping room (there was no danger involved for either)..the first 3-4 did stop, I said "thanks", and was about
  to flag a couple cars out. Some of the other types accelerated around the polite ones..so I know there are both types. ( I really never expected I would have to explain in such detail)
  If someone thinks it is acceptable to block a person from exit, without warning, how would you feel if someone blocked egress from your driveway for an hour
  with you sitting in there ? Would you say toi yourself.... "that's fine, as long as he is enjoying himself ! "..I rather doubt it.
  To say I don't like motorcyclists is a bit disingenuous, especially after I mentioned much of my family rides. I think that was an attempt at "deflection". Obviously, I
  have no problem with motorcyclists, but I do with rude, selfish, self-anointed celebrities whether they drive a car, truck, Piper Cub or a rickshaw !
  To hate a person for their machine would be just as stupid as the nerds that hate hunters because they have guns..

  Powderman..The Marines I mentioned have a slogan, " duty, honor, country"..apparently these terms are AWOL from some folks dictionary..and replaced by "self".. ;D

  I think enough has been said and no more minds will be swayed here..so I exit, pleased to be on the side of the civilized.. ;) :D ;D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dee

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Re: Motorcyclists..talk to your friends
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2008, 04:40:43 PM »
   Not being a cyclist, I have always been rather ambivalent about them and their activities. I even take special caution to allow cyclists right of way where they are entitled.
  I know cyclists are a bit concerned with their image, so I wonder just why we had to experience the disgusting performance I witnessed this morning.
   As our church let out, we were greeted by the noise of motorcycles coming up the main street of our little town.
   
  At first, the multicolored machines were interesting and we waited for them to pass. I didn't mind the continuous horn blowing or unnecessary engine revving..figuring,
   "let the simple ones have their fun too".After 20 minutes or so, we realised that there was no break coming soon. This disruption lasted for more than an hour.
 
  Knowing there were a few elderly people who had to get home for meds and etc, I endeavored to secure a break in the monotonous parade, so they could get home
.
   Waiting for a small break, I stepped out into the street requesting a little courtesy with my hand motions. A couple slowed..and I was in hopes..but others gunned their
  engines and nearly ran me over in their complete disregard for even basic courtesy.



Having the right of way, and holding a church congregation hostage, for more than an hour are two different things entirely. Although the right of way goes to thru traffic in most cases, a certain amount of thought and courtesy should be with the bikers, when such a large group is travelling together. I for one will always put the young and especially the old first, and all certainly before fun. Some here obviously will not, but instead justify bad manners.
One can do many things legally, but the question should instead be, should one do so at the inconvience or expense of others, just because they can. With that said, and one last comment, I will exit the conversation as it has already become apparent nothing will be accomplished in the form of compromise, and some obviously are not capable of such.
The obvious fact that ironglow was not a young man standing in the street, should have alone, been enough to give anyone, whether biker, hiker, or everyday motorist a reason to stop a moment and acess the situation
. After all they were riding to a charity event. Is not giving momentary right of way so folks can go home, not charity, or was the adverstised beer and food more important. The answer was in their actions. Nuff said by me.


I later found out that they did not stop for traffic signals or any side streets...and
  they obviously Knew what a big mob they were. And it appears that in a mob setting, they acted different tha they would act in their home neighborhood.
  I called the county sheriff to find out if there is any control for such mob actions. They informed me that the one small city in our county, Olean, NY ...had sponsored something called "Rally in the Valley" and this is the result.
     As I said previously I have been ambivalent concerning large group outings of motorcyclists..but today I have re-assessd my thoughts and think differently..
  Sorry, I have a sour taste in my mouth, because they behaved like a cross between inconsiderate boors and plain hoodlums.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett