Barnes Sabots

[davem270win]

Is anyone using the Barnes sabots? I've tried a couple and found them very hard to load, to the point I worry about the bullet getting stuck in the barrel. Barnes says they should be tight for accuracy, and they have special loaders to fit the ogive. The two I shot before I gave up at the range were pretty close together. I'm using the MX expander 300 gr. I cleaned and oiled the barrel before loading, so it wasn't like there was a lot of crud in the bore.

[DonsHarley82]

I'm shooting 250 gr. expander MZ in my apex with no problem loading but I use a spinjag works great

[coop2564]

I shoot both the 245gr spitfire and the 285gr they are somewhat hard to load but very accurate.

[K.K]

I have used the ploymer tipped 50 cal Barnes for two years. I have killed 6 deer with them ranging from small yearlings to a 210 lbs doe in Illinois. They expand wonderfully, shoot accurartely in my Encore, and penetrate unlike anything else. A tight seal makes them tough to load, but accurate. Also, a little Bore Butter around the sabot makes it easier. Unless I am at the range, I have never been bothered by this. I like 'em!

K.K

[kevthebassman]

A bit of a dilemma.  I've never owned an inline myself, but I had a problem that was not at all unlike your own:

My flintlock loves a .530 ball and .020 patch.  Shoots this load as accurate as I can shoot through the open sights--- all 5 shots inside a 4" bull.  That's as good as I can see to shoot.  I get 1820 fps out of my barrel, making my .54 flintlock the ballistic twin of a .44 magnum pistol inside 100 yards.  The only problem is that this load requires a mallet to start!  The short starter leaves a rather ugly looking dent on the face of the round ball, but this load is the most accurate, so apparently that doesn't affect things.

Now since I don't plan on carrying a mallet in my possibles bag while hunting, I load at the truck, and carry .018 patches for reloads.  The .018 patches shoot almost as accurate as the .020, and I'm able to start them without using a mallet.

Now, to apply this lesson to your situation, if you cannot make the load easier to load through the use of some lubricant, you may consider just living with it being hard to start, and find another sabot that shoots "close enough" to your current load, but loads easier, and use that load as back-up in the field.

But this is just free advice from a nutcase obsessed with goex and roundballs and flint.  Probably worth what you paid for it. 

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

With my old omega i had, i had to use a MMP-12 sabot with a 250gr expander.  My CVA Optima also wants that sabot.

It they load to easily, they more than likely wont shoot worth a crap.

[K.K]

I agree. I prefer a sabot to load "hard". It gives a better gas seal, which renders more velocity, uniformity, and accuracy. I was able to load three consecutive shots one after the other last year when I took three deer out of the same stand. They were stiff to load, but no problem at all. If they shoot well in your rifle, and they probably will, they will denifitely perform great on game of any size.  I would not let ease or difficulty of loading dictate which projoectile that I hunt with. I have never recovered one from a deer, as they expanded and fully pentrated from any angle that I shot from.

[davem270win]

Thanks for the input.  The "field load" sounds good, as I had visions of a downed deer in front of me that needed a second shot, and I'm standing there unable to get the %$#&^ thing down the bore!

[sabotloader]

davem270win

It really comes down to - what is "Hard" to load... In todays world if you are shooting a 50 cal there really is no reason that a sabot/projectile combintation should be stand on the ram-rod "HARD" to load.  It certainly should be "snug" and require enough pressure to cause you to use two hands - but you should never have to "stand on the ram-rod" or pound the combination down the barrel.  And you must be positive that the combination is seated firmly on top of the powder... - no questions-

The new polymere sabots are designed to provide the seal you need by obturating to the barrel.  Most projecties will do the same thing, except for the Barnes all copper line.

Barnes has been notorious about stiff loading sabots, and it is not all their fault , since their is no standard in Muzzleloading for bore diameter.  You can have a bore from .499 to .504 - the same sabot, for the most part, will not fit that range of bores.  You will need to find the sabot that fits your bore.

You do not say, or I did not see, what rifle you are shooting but the tendency of ML's today has been to move to the .500 bore where in the past they were more likely to be in the .503 area.  Barnes sabots will fit this size bore very well but to get them down a newer gun will be tough.

Since a Barnes, all copper, bullets do not obturate easily a tighter fitting sabot is in order, but even Barnes has recognized that the new guns are coming with a smaller bore and have added a new thinner sabot to their line.  If you have not tried one of these new thinner sabots you might give them a try.

good luck in finding what you need.

[davem270win]

It's a TC Triumph 50 cal.

[sabotloader]

davem270win

It's a TC Triumph 50 cal.]

I think you are really lucky if you got a normal Barnes sabot down that bore at all.  It is a .499/.500 bore - really tight.

I do not shoot Barnes bullets so i do not know what bullet you have.  If you have Barnes Boat-Tail - you are stuck with the sabot that comes with it... but if it is a flat base you have several options.

1. Call Barnes and tell them you have a new Triumph with the very tight bore.. ask them if they would change out your yellow Barnes Sabots for the new Blue easy load sabots.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/muzzleloader/spit-fire-t-ez™/

2.  If you want to shoot Barnes and they a flat based - then your other options are to get some MMP HPH-3p-Ez load sabots or Harvester "crush rib" sabots.  These are still going to fit tight, but managable, in a Triumph so you will not be losing accuracy .  There also is a chance that you can get a HPH-24 or regular Harvester (either short black or long black - I would recommend the short black) down also.

If you are shooting .50 caliber Spit-Fire MZ and Spit-Fire TMZ - there is a customer alert out on them - might check this out(NEAR THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE)...

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/muzzleloader/

Hope some of this helps....

[kevthebassman]

Thanks for the input.  The "field load" sounds good, as I had visions of a downed deer in front of me that needed a second shot, and I'm standing there unable to get the %$#&^ thing down the bore!

Well heck, that's why you carry a pistol!   

[K.K]

Great idea with the pistol, but illegal in NY while hunting prmitive weapons seasons, though there have been times I would have traded my Encore muzzleloader for my .308 Encore pistol!

[kevthebassman]

Well, there's primitive pistols out there.

[Lawful Larry]

I use the Barnes Expander sabot in my .54 cal. Hawkens carbine:



I have had  great success with this bullet in harvesting deer.  The  bullet is very accurate and I have yet to find another bullet that matches or surpasses its performance.  It is a little tight, but not to the point of having to stand on my ramrod. 

Sabotloader is a wealth of inof on this subject and I would listen to him on his advice.  Happy hunting!     

[davem270win]

Thanks for all the help. I have expander MZ 250 grain/50 cal. I'll try another sabot with them. In Pennsylvania, we cannot carry modern arms during the primitive seasons either, and I think they specify "single shot". Otherwise, I guess I could carry my Walker Colt Replica. Six would definetely be enough!

[mudhen]

You got some really good advice above - the Triumph is a tight bore - T/C advised me to lap a bit on my own (they did offer to do it for me) and I did some home lapping work - turned out well.

The new Barnes flat base T-EZ are easier to load, but not too easy.  Accuracy with the T-EZ has been excellent for me in my Triumph and Endeavor.

Another combo both guns like is the Fusion bullets with ribbed sabot.

Good luck!

mudhen

[hunt-m-up]

I've shot the 250 and the 285 and they do load hard, especially after the first shot with any kind of residue in the barrel, but their accuracy and performance on game is hard to beat in my particular set-up. You should only have to load it once when hunting anyway right? 

[Varmint Hunter]

I recently bought a package of Barnes 250gr TMZ (boattail) bullets for my 209x50 ProHunter. I literally could not force that bullet down the bore while applying a significant amount of force to the ram rod. WOW! That's tight!