What caliber do you carry in the woods?

[Freezer]

   Deer and bear season starts in Ca in one month.  I have both 357 and 44mag available as side arms and I'm having a hard time deciding which to carry.  I've had some close encounters with Black bears in recent years when I didn't have a bear tag. One encounter with a bear was the reason I sold my Super Blackhawk and bought a S&W 629 6" and latter added a S&W Mountian pistol 4".  I wouldn't mind droping a Blacktail or bear with a hand gun.  There are also allot of cougar where I hunt and since I hunt alone they're the main reason for the hand gun.  My Ruger Security Six weights allot less than either of my S&Ws but is the 357 enough cartridge?  If I take it I'll use Winchester Supreme Controlled Expansion Hollow Points, I believe they're 158 gr.  The terrain I hunt is very rugged and steep, I usually enter the woods at 4:30 am and won't leave the woods until after dark so weight is always a consideration. 
    So what do you think, is a 357 enough for cougar and bear? 
    Should I get a 1911 in 45ACP?  Nine round in an auto is appealing in a pinch!

[petemi]

I'm an ignorant midwesterner, but I'd just take the .44 and be done with it.  I have cougar and black bear here and I don't sweat it.  If I'm bird hunting and shooting a little 20 ga., I have slugs  and buck shot right next to the bird shot in my vest.  My work guns, the ones I carry every day, are the .357 Blackhawk and the .357 Handi Rifle.  I believe a .357 would do in a cougar just fine, but I'd worry a bit about a 450 lb. bear.  If you're really concerned, go bigger.

[Mikey]

Freezer - take the S&W Mountain Gun and stuff it with anything cast in 240 grains or heavier.  Your 357 would be sufficient, even for the Black Bear, but not with hollow-points.  Forget the 45 - with 9 rounds it will weigh more than the Mountain Gun but affords you little practical solace............JMTCW.  Mikey.

[Cottonwood]

I would also cast a vote for carrying the .44 Mag as I personally carry a Ruger SBH 4 5/8ths loaded with 305-gr WFN GC bullets.  Deer, bear or what ever else I run into that is on the tag list would could be taken care of.

[BillinOregon]

I'd pack a .44, a .45 Colt (in a Ruger) or a .41 any day before I would carry a .357 under the circumstances you specify.

[Redhawk1]

44 Mag and some hard cast bullets, I am not a fan of the 357 Mag what so ever in the woods.

[Ken ONeill]

Carry the .44 Mag.

[Tn Jim]

4 5/8" Super Blackhawk loaded with a hard cast 250 grain SWC is what I carry.

[mcwoodduck]

Well,
Depending on where you hunt in CA and what you can find.  If you are hunting in one of the condor areas you will have to use a NO Lead bullet.   Carefull some of the handgun ammo out there that says No Lead is a FMJ round with a lead core that will not lead up the gun.  Read the box carefuly.
That leaves the Federal loaded ammo with barns bullets as your only option right now, either round with the barns bullet will work for what you want.
If your planning on the handgun as a second arm then I would go with the smaller lighter 357 and have something on you if you walk away from your rifle to do what ever ( pee, poop, gut, drag, or eat).  After all your not going to drop your rifle if something with fangs and claws comes out at  you, and go for a handgun that has 1/3 the energy of your rifle.  Not to mention you are not going to be accurate trying to shoot the handgun one handed with a rifle flailing around in your other.
If it is for hunting then I say take the .44.  the longer barrel and heavier bullet will work better.   Remember that you can not out draw a deer.

[Ole Man Dan]

My solution was to buy a good holster and carry either a .44 or .45 with a heavy WFN hard Cast bullett.  If you need a pistol, you are going to need it bad...  (Quality leather will make the load easy to carry) 
Lots of game and lots of men have been killed with the .357, but I'm not going to risk my back side with anything less than a .44 or .45...

[Freezer]

    That's what I've been thinking but I hate the weight of the 44.  If its a Cougar I'll be lucky to hear it coming. A Bear.... I won't hunt on my hands and knees and if I do, I'll have my side arm out! 
     Let's change the question,     If you were going to carry a 357 how would you load it?

[Mikey]

Freezer:  to answer your last question - I would load the 357 with a 200 gn hard cast semi-wadcutter over 12.4 grains of Winchester 296 powder for a factory rated velocity of 1335'/sec (barrel length dependent, I'm sure).  Mikey.

[Glanceblamm]

That's what I've been thinking but I hate the weight of the 44.  If its a Cougar I'll be lucky to hear it coming. A Bear...

Another ignorant midwesterner here but the Cougars are reputed to be thin skinned & light boned with even the .22 WMR putting a world of hurt on the treed cat where the dog hunting is still legal.
I think that the Bear will want at least a 240gr XTP out of that .44 to be reliable and you can backtrack to some of JJ Hacks post on this as he has plenty of experience with this good load.
The weight of your .44 is probably going to be the lesser evil compared to suprising a bear at close range.

[Freezer]

   MCWOODUCK, funny you should mention poop, I was answering the call of nature when the wind shifted into the ravine.  There was a bear in the brush not twenty yards from me.  When he found out there was something in the woods that smelled worse than him and decided to high tail out of there   My second encounter was when I didn't have a tag, a bear was coming from 50 yards out and closing fast.  At twenty yards he had to make a decision, high path or low path   I was sitting on the low path   He chose the high path and passed within 10 feet of me   I sold my Super Blackhawk when I got home and got a gun that will go bang every time I say OH $&!^! without having to think about cocking it   We also had a Tom cougar that was killing just for the heck of it.  They had federal hunters and dogs looking for it, they didn't find it.  I've also seen at least five cougars and stunbled on a fresh kill   The idea of a side arm if things get personal is comforting.
   The terrain I hunt is also very rough and steep I slip a few times a year up there.  If I slip on a shale hill and slide in I may not have the rifle anymore but the pistol will stay with me.  If I injure myself and and something decides I'm on tonight's menu I'll have something to protest his decision
    Some folks mentioned good leather.  I don't like the holster I wear because it drags my pants dowm.  I tried a second belt but it's still not real comfronable what would you recomend.

[Justin10mm]

Freezer: I think a 357 mag should work fine on eny furry critters with claws, as long as you load it heavy. I recomend winchester's 180 grain partion golds. I shot a 259 pound hog, high in the shoulder, from 57 yards with this load in my 6" smith and droped him in his tracks! I also have been shooting Grizzly ammo's 180 grain hard cast load, and think this would be a great choice for deep penitration.

Right now I carry a Glock 20 in 10mm, loaded with 15 rounds of Buffalo Bore's 180 grain Speer Gold Dot ammo.    What more do you need! 

[Badnews Bob]

That .357 with 180gr hard cast or maybe hornady XTPs will work just fine, The ruger security six is a very reliable handgun and will perform when needed.

[mcwoodduck]

Freezer,
I carry my 44 ond 357's in a strong side hip holster in leather.  I like Bianchi, Galco and even Triple K.  I use a second belt when I carry.  I add my knife ammo slide and a speed loader holder  and a leather holder for my GPS/ Radio to the belt as well.  I also have a belt keeper that I use and it keeps the belt from riding up in the back.  The keeper is just a strip of leather with two snaps that goes around both of my belts and keeps the over belt in place.  The belt I use as a pistol belt is as wide as I can get it and still get it through the slots on the holster.  I also like a thumb break holster and use the same guns with special loads in the off season to shoot steel.
As far as loads.  If you do not need the condor friendly ammo I would paraphrase Capstick and say shoot the biggest bullet you can well.  If you can not hit anything with the light 357 in either the 180 or 158 grain bullets I would look at the Remington 125 grain scalloped jacketed hollow point.  They are the fastest 125's on the market.  I would stay away from any of the gee wiz home or carry protection ammo.  Stuff that is made for people may not be good for bears.  My concern with your 357 is it is the light mountain gun and recoil may be fierce with the heavy loads. If you can hit things well with the 240's out of the 44 them use them.  I use the Remington UMC 180 grain Jacket Soft Points.  The gun is accurate with them, I am accurate with them, and I can return to target quickly.  Not to mention that the 180's open up well for deer and Cats, it will put big holes in a bear's lungs and drown him.  Both the 125's and the 180's are a little light for caliber but they will still break bone at short range and the smallish deer in CA it will be more than enough.
  I look at it this way.  I would rather put three smaller grain bullets into a chest quickly and accuratly then have one heavy shell in the same time frame.
All I can tell you is buy some ammo and go to the range and see what you like and are comfortable shooting well.

[Smokem]

I deer/bear hunt in Maine with either my Ruger SRH in .454 loaded with Cor-Bon 45 Colt+P 300grain JSP (primary shooter), or my Remington model 721 in .30-06 loaded with 180 grain Nosler partitions. My sidearm is a S&W model 66 .357 magnum loaded with Cor-Bon 200 grain hard cast, It will work just fine on a bears in Maine.

[Freezer]

  MC I think you hit the nail on the head.  I shoot my Ruger Security Six 4" very well with 158's.  The recoil on the Mountian gun is horrific but I can handle it with 240swc.  The range won't let us rapid fire so I don't know how well I can recover with the 44.  I just have to get to the woods for some pratice.
   I wear a second belt too but never thought of the belt straps, I think you solved my problem.  Deer season opens mid Sept I'll post back and let you know how it works out.  I also have to wear a day pack because I'm often in the woods from 4:30 am till after dark and can range miles from camp.  I carry emergency supplies and 2 quarts of water so my day pack can get heavy quick.  Weight is very important and my gear has to work right for me to be comfortable.

[Blunderbus]

Weighing in a little late, I guess. I'm not a bear hunter, but I live and regularly roam in eastern blackie country so I have carried with that in mind. I used to believe that a .357 was plenty but have modified my beliefs. Last winter I was riding in  a vehicle that wrecked an unlucky bruin (and didn't do the vehicle much good, either).  Even though it was a sow (sans cubs, judging from the teats), the dead bear had to be pushing 275 pounds ... maybe 300.  I know it had to outweigh me, and I was 270 at the time.  If she has any surviving male relatives, I imagine they've got the genetics to be a lot bigger than she was.

So yeah, 44 magnum. He!!s fire, I've given serious thought to a 480.

[Mike Britton]

22 gr. of 2400 and a 200gr Keith style SWC. It will shoot through a bleedin' telephone pole!! Never cared much for the .357. Too much noise, and too much muzzle blast.
 I like the .45 long Colt also, but it needs to be handloaded to realize it's full potential, and pressures go up too high for Saa's and their clones.
I still believe that the Super Blackhawk is one of the best revolvers ever made.

[Freezer]

    I loved my SBH but 10 ' from a bear is too close to think, you have to know!  I'm coming down on the side of the mountain pistol ( 44 over 357)!  Better belt arrangement and hard cast swc sounds like the ticket.  I just need to distribute the weight better

[Mikey]

Freezer - get on down to the local Army and Navy store and get yoruself a combat pack and suspenders - the pack hooks to the belt and is held up by the suspenders - and they are wide and thick enough to nicely pad the shoulders.  The pack will carry everything you need for hunting weather survival and the suspenders help take the weight off your hips (where it kiils me after a while).

As for the recoil of the Mountain Gun - you can load cast 240s over 22 gns of 2400 and have yourself a whoppin' good load but I  have found full powered 44s like this load to 'snap' my wrists a bit.  The load I prefer is a 290-300 gn Keith style semi-wadcutter of 19.5 gns of H110 or WW296 - still full power but much less snap - more of a push than a snap.  And they should still go through a tree............... Mikey.

[Mike Britton]

Mikey is right on. The idea is to put the weight on your shoulders, not your hips.
And when you really find yourself in a bind recoil will be the last thing you worry about.
When it comes to stopping power, I'd rather throw big rocks that little ones any day.

[Cottonwood]

Freezer here is something to keep in mind when hunting and co-existing with California Black Bears:

The only species of bears in California and Nevada are black bears. However, they do range in color from blonde to black, with cinnamon brown being the most common color in both states.

 There are an estimated 25,000 to 35,000 black bears in California and 200 to 300 In Nevada.

 Black bears normally avoid humans. If encountered, always leave them an escape route.

 Males are much larger than females and can weigh up to 500 pounds, although average weight Is about 300 pounds.

 Black bears can sprint up to 35mph and they are strong swimmers and great tree climbers.

 A typical wild bear diet consists of berries, plants, nuts, roots, honey, honeycomb, insects, larvae, carrion, and small mammals.

As winter approaches, bears will forage for food up to 20 hours a day, storing enough fat to sustain them through hibernation. Bears often hibernate in large hollow trees 40 to 60 feet off the ground, under rocks and in hollow logs.

 Bears that are accustomed to people can become too bold and lose their fear of humans. To avoid this behavior, do not let bears become habituated to human sources of food.

Remember: Never feed a bear

Now having this information do you really want to carry a .357 magnum over a .44 magnum revolver?

Now understand, your chances of being attacked by a black bear or slim as you stand a greater chance of being struck by lightning when out in the wildlands and back hills of California.  Heck, even here in Montana you stand a greater chance of being struck by lightning as well.  But I used to live in Pioneer, Ca and left back in 89/90 so it's been a while since I hunted or traveled into the Sierra Nevada Mountains.  I worked for American Forest Products out of Martell which is just outside of Jackson.  In working in the woods I had never encountered a bear up close.  They really did not like the sound of chain saws, but would be curious none the less and be off at a distance standing to see what they could see.  I actually saw more Mountain Lions than bears, so I have a greater fear of them than bears.

You carry what you want, but living and working in the woods no matter if its there in California or here in Montana it's bear/lion country and I prefer the larger caliber as my carry sidearm to give me the best dose of lead that I can possible protect myself or others with.  I once traveled the back country with a guy on horseback that carried a S&W mod 10 .38 Spl, I handed him a jar a mayo to keep with him.  He looked at me and asked, what's this for.  I told him, you'll taste better to the bears when you piss them off with that pea shooter.

Carry the right kind of insurance should you need to protect yourself.

This is just some wise advice, from an opinionated old fart.

[Freezer]

   
    Montanan, good advise is aways accepted.  I know 9 chances out of ten the black bear isn't interested in me and have smelled and seen many in the woods.  Startling one is never a good idea which was one of three options I had when the big ugly bear was coming at me.  Sit and wait and shoot it without a tag were the other two.  I chose wisely but that was the last day I carried a single action.  I also thing bears are beautiful animals and beauty is only skin deep but the one was just big and ugly!  Molted multi colored coat and about 400lbs, the second biggest bear I've ever seen.

[buck460XVR]

 
    So what do you think, is a 357 enough for cougar and bear? 
   

Is this for your primary weapon or backup? I tend to think as a primary weapon it is a little light unless you are using dogs. For a backup weapon or secondary weapon I would think it would be fine.....but that's me. I tend to think folk worry way to much about bear attacks  99% of the time. As been said here, odds of gettin' struck by lightning are much greater than the odds of ending up as bear poop. In my 40 plus years of hunting in areas with viable black bear populations, the only times I have come withing 40 yards of one is when  sittin' over bait, waitin' for a bear. This includes the hundreds of times of walkin' in and out of the woods during archery season long before and long after light. Many times on public land my stands are 1/4 to 1/2 mile in. Heard a few crashin' off ahead, and seen a few black blurs headin' the other way, but have never felt threatened. Funny how folk worry so much about being killed by a bear while hunting when most folk killed in the woods while hunting are killed by other hunters bullets....maybe we all need to wear bullet-proof armor along with our "bear guns". Now in areas of high densities of Grizzly Bears, I would tend to be a bit more prudent.....again, this is just my humble opinion.

[1sourdough]

 I usually carry a 22,22mag,38,357, or 40s&w, depending. I have a SRH 44 mag but since it's heavy I only carried it on a bear hunt. When on trapline assit duties I carry a 22 or 22 mag, the same if some plinking is involved. If I have a shotgun or rifle I usually go light or no handgun. If hiking or exploring I would lean to a light 38,40s&w, or 357. A 7.5" 44mag gets a little heavy. My heavy loads for the 357 are 180grn beartooth hardcast over max charges of H110.

[Freezer]

   As I said before, I carry a revolver as a defence piece first, main concern is cougar, the second is bear and that's if I startle one or have one come in on me with harvested game, and then I wouldn't mind dropping game with it if the opportunity presents itself.  Weight and carryability is a big issue because the terrain is so step and rugged.  At times I'll shoulder my rifle and carry my revolver through the brush.  My first back up was the Ruger security Security Six 4"357.  It's nice to carry but I thought it might be a marginal caliber.  The second was a 7 5/8" SBH, too heavy too cumbersome.  Next was a 5 5/8" stainless SBH, that's what I was carrying when the ugly bear forced me to rethink single action.  Next came a chrome plated S&W 629 6', way too heavy!  Now I have a S&W Mountian.  I haven't carried it all day yet but hunting season opens in two weeks.  I still keep looking at my 357 but will have a bear tag this year so.....

[torpedoman]

cz52 in 762-25 ,for bear gun i want thru and thru penetratiion and this will do it