Hartford Conneticut joins list of Illegal Sanctuary Cities

[powderman]

We need to call these people what they are. Lawless, illegals, felons, trespassers, criminals. Cities that give them a free pass should have all federal subsidies cut off, and mayors and the rest who support this should be charged with aiding and abetting known criminals, arrested, and jailed with huge fines. What part of illegal is so hard to understand? They cost us taxpayers over $330 BILLION  just last year. Some hospitols report being almost bankrupt from treating them, freebies of course. They should have no rights, but still draw welfare, food stamps, etc. WHY??? No reason to. I'm fed up hearing yabba dabba doooo all the time. These people aren't immigrants, they're criminals and should be treated as such. They shame and dishonor all of the millions of Americans that came here legally, followed the rules, learned english, and obeyed our laws. I welcome REAL immigrants, but not these scum. If they want to work here, live here, do it legally, learn and speak ENGLISH, or GET OUT.  We speak English here, period. POWDERMAN. 

[Mikey]

I like the idea of sending in the tanks and crushing these criminals.  Burn city hall, burn the mayor's homes, drive the illegals into the streets and round'm up and their families too, and then send them all to the tent city jail in Arizona that is run by that hard-core Sheriff.  Since there do not appear to be any other LEOs willing to risk such public (liberal, dumbocrap, commie) ire, let's get the only one with the guts to do it and get these illegally placed people displaced. 

Let's take the federal $ that goes into these illegal cities and use it to fund more tents in Arizona.  Let's put the flagrant, criminal mayors in the same tents with their illegal buddies and see how well they get to know each other, and then turn around to each of those cities and say:  OK, you have the freedom to elect any official you want but, every single time you elect someone criminal and stupid like this we are gonna do the same thing until you get it straight and stop electing criminals who pander to other criminals at the expense of our federal tax monies.  It is one thing if you all individually want to support hordes of criminals looking for new targets (ooops, sorry, new homes...) or the starving masses from somewhere but don't do it with our federal $. 

Yeah, I like the tank idea.  But what of the womens and chilruns ya say, they didn't do anything illegal so why them too - they're here ain't they..........................

I am so tired of this old liberal demicommie saw of the re-distribution of wealth concept - hey, we aren't South Afrika or Kenya ya know...............JMTCW. 

[MGMorden]

But what of the womens and chilruns ya say, they didn't do anything illegal so why them too - they're here ain't they..........................

Being here isn't so bad - being here unregistered and not paying proper income taxes (and not working within the foundations of the set minimum wage scheme) is what's causing problems.  Rather than go all Hilter and start the whole concentration camp idea all over again, I'll say that I personally don't have a problem with amnesty so long as we get them registered, in the system, and paying the same taxes as everyone else.  Personally I wouldn't care if we put a checkpoint on the border of the Rio Grande where they register and are handed a SS card on the way in.  They just need to be in the system and working within the limitations of that system.

Remember that most of our ancestors came over when the policy was pretty much just show up, get off the boat, and visit the check-in desk (if that).  Back then it was hard to enter the country "illegally" because entering legally was so trivial. 

And of course, the fact that it was illegal vs legal didn't make much difference then (as evidenced by the poor treatment endured by the completely legal Irish, Germans, or any other large wave of emigrants that ever hit the country), as I suspect it isn't really the root of the cause now.

[Cabin4]

I like the idea of sending in the tanks and crushing these criminals.  Burn city hall, burn the mayor's homes, drive the illegals into the streets and round'm up and their families too, and then send them all to the tent city jail in Arizona that is run by that hard-core Sheriff.  Since there do not appear to be any other LEOs willing to risk such public (liberal, dumbocrap, commie) ire, let's get the only one with the guts to do it and get these illegally placed people displaced. 

Let's take the federal $ that goes into these illegal cities and use it to fund more tents in Arizona.  Let's put the flagrant, criminal mayors in the same tents with their illegal buddies and see how well they get to know each other, and then turn around to each of those cities and say:  OK, you have the freedom to elect any official you want but, every single time you elect someone criminal and stupid like this we are gonna do the same thing until you get it straight and stop electing criminals who pander to other criminals at the expense of our federal tax monies.  It is one thing if you all individually want to support hordes of criminals looking for new targets (ooops, sorry, new homes...) or the starving masses from somewhere but don't do it with our federal $. 

Yeah, I like the tank idea.  But what of the womens and chilruns ya say, they didn't do anything illegal so why them too - they're here ain't they..........................

I am so tired of this old liberal demicommie saw of the re-distribution of wealth concept - hey, we aren't South Afrika or Kenya ya know...............JMTCW. 

What about just simple compliance with the law? I thought congress passed laws so they can be complied with I just never knew following the law was optional for some people

I must be crazy.

[beemanbeme]

Hey, I like Mikey's idea. Just kill 'em. Might as well do the women and kids too.  And the elected officials that didn't suit you. Bunch of faggot commies.  And anytime the towns elected somebody you didn't like, sack, pillage, and burn those towns. That'd bring 'em into line. Pretty soon you could just run a one candidate election. And then why even bother with an election.

And then, when you elected Robert Byrd enough times and payed the unions enough, you could drop out of school in the 6th grade and get a job picking up trash along the highway for $25.00/hr and bennies. Or it would be like WV, you could draw wellfare (until China called our debts) and watch the trash pile up.  And watch the lettuce rot in the fields because no one could afford to pay $25.00/hr plus bennies for some slackers to pick lettuce and no one could afford the lettuce by the time it got to the store. 

Hey, you folks that think that kicking out the illegals is suddenly gonna make some menial labouror rich are the clueless ones.  It ain't gonna happen.  The folks that have traditionally been the entry level workers in America have been on entitlements and programs for so long that to ask (or even try to force) them to go to work is a joke.  An example: here in WV, they are buying these folks cars, you know, rural state, etc, so they can get paid to go to school to learn a trade at which they have no obligation to ever work. And which most of them will never work.

How about a deal where everytime an illegal is kicked out of the country, some easy rider on unemployment or welfare is assigned to the same job at the same pay?  Maybe if enough of that is done, America can get it's organic fertilizer straight enough to compete on a global market.  Because anybody that thinks we can compete while paying some high school drop out $25.00/hr to make a widget when the same item can be made overseas for $1.00 is pretty dumb.

[Cabin4]

Hey, I like Mikey's idea. Just kill 'em. Might as well do the women and kids too.  And the elected officials that didn't suit you. Bunch of faggot commies.  And anytime the towns elected somebody you didn't like, sack, pillage, and burn those towns. That'd bring 'em into line. Pretty soon you could just run a one candidate election. And then why even bother with an election.

And then, when you elected Robert Byrd enough times and payed the unions enough, you could drop out of school in the 6th grade and get a job picking up trash along the highway for $25.00/hr and bennies. Or it would be like WV, you could draw wellfare (until China called our debts) and watch the trash pile up.  And watch the lettuce rot in the fields because no one could afford to pay $25.00/hr plus bennies for some slackers to pick lettuce and no one could afford the lettuce by the time it got to the store. 

Hey, you folks that think that kicking out the illegals is suddenly gonna make some menial labouror rich are the clueless ones.  It ain't gonna happen.  The folks that have traditionally been the entry level workers in America have been on entitlements and programs for so long that to ask (or even try to force) them to go to work is a joke.  An example: here in WV, they are buying these folks cars, you know, rural state, etc, so they can get paid to go to school to learn a trade at which they have no obligation to ever work. And which most of them will never work.

How about a deal where everytime an illegal is kicked out of the country, some easy rider on unemployment or welfare is assigned to the same job at the same pay?  Maybe if enough of that is done, America can get it's organic fertilizer straight enough to compete on a global market.  Because anybody that thinks we can compete while paying some high school drop out $25.00/hr to make a widget when the same item can be made overseas for $1.00 is pretty dumb.

Following the laws for some people is just a difficult concept. Just more reason to make sure we seal our boarders and deport these illegals. Yes, we should have the Feds sue these sanctuary cities and force them to comply with federal law. Anyone who speaks out against the basic concept of following laws that are designed to protect us from murders, rapists, robbers and the dangers of unsealed boarders and allow fairness in immigration are unfit to be an American. There are appologists and sanctuary city propagandists everywhere, willing to go to any lenth evenif it means allowing murders to be hidden from procecution. Amazing how transparent and racist the agenda is.....

You make an excellant point for the enacting the diversinary sarcasim your ranting about....Please keep up the good work.

[torpedoman]

Ike had this problem when he was in office and after he loaded a few bboats with them and took them home to the very southern end of mexico the rest self deported.

[ironglow]

  Bbeen away for a few days;  ..is there any doubt for instance, that Gavin Newsome fellow in San Francisco (for one) is a certified liberal ?
  Most larger city's mayors are left-leaning..because the bulk of their votrers are left leaning...

[beemanbeme]

Hey Cabin4, before you overload your bluejay ass, you might want to think twice before you start telling anybody, especially me, that they are unfit to be Americans.  It's stupid jerkoffs like you that haven't a clue about this country and how it's supposed to work that make post like that.  Before you start telling anyone in this room they are unfit to be Americans, why don't you tell us just who you are?  And what have you done to earn that right?  Or are you just another cyberspace punk hiding behind a keyboard?

[Dee]

Hey Cabin4, before you overload your bluejay ass, you might want to think twice before you start telling anybody, especially me, that they are unfit to be Americans.  It's stupid jerkoffs like you that haven't a clue about this country and how it's supposed to work that make post like that.  Before you start telling anyone in this room they are unfit to be Americans, why don't you tell us just who you are?  And what have you done to earn that right?  Or are you just another cyberspace punk hiding behind a keyboard?

WOW! Name calling and everything, all in one post. "Cyberspace punk hiding behind a keyboard"?  Isn't that what your doing here? I don't think Cabin4 was attacking you, just disagreeing, but you sure have attacked him, and called him names. You should apologize. 

[ironglow]

  Beeman;
  I agree with Dee, you sure seemed to "go off" on cabin4. His language was for the greater part, very polite and sensible.
 
  After all, what are we really talking about, other than " what part of ILLEGAL don't some folks understand ?" Cabin4 politely
   suggested that he didn't know that following the LAW is "optional for some people"..I think that was a fair statement.

  Perhaps completely "kicking out" foreign workers wouldn't be necessary if all cities and citizens (and aliens) obeyed our laws,
  got all registered as alien workers....and no "anchor babies"..we could be more stable.

  As for the sanctuary cities: If they don't want to obey the law..and our "leaders" are not inclined to enforce our laws, the
  cities that don't agree should take every illegal criminal they catch and offer them either JAIL or a ticket to their favorite "sanctuary" city.
  Maybe then, the law ignoring towns will get enough alien criminals to keep them happy..

[Cabin4]

Hey Cabin4, before you overload your bluejay ass, you might want to think twice before you start telling anybody, especially me, that they are unfit to be Americans.  It's stupid jerkoffs like you that haven't a clue about this country and how it's supposed to work that make post like that.  Before you start telling anyone in this room they are unfit to be Americans, why don't you tell us just who you are?  And what have you done to earn that right?  Or are you just another cyberspace punk hiding behind a keyboard?

Based on that response, you force me to say it again: Anyone who supports or participates in the act of hiding WANTED criminals from authorities is unfit to be an American. You or I don't have a "right" to disobey the law and neither does some Mayor of a city. In this case, Mayors take an oath of office to uphold the law.

If you put yourself in this category, then so be it. If you disagree with me on this, sorry, but that's just too bad. But what really counts here, are people like Mrs. Bologna who's husband Anthony Bologna, and his sons, 20-year-old Michael, and 16-year-old Matthew, were murdered by Edwin Ramos, an illegal alien in safe harbor in San Francisco. If San Francisco was not a sanctuary city, these murders may have been prevented. I think this is something worth discussing and worthy of strong statements. People are dieing, maimed being robbed and women are being raped. There are too many examples of how real this issue is.

Quote:A sanctuary city is a city within the United States of America that protects illegal aliens from federal law enforcement agencies and the term generally is used for cities that do not allow municipal funds or resources to be used to enforce federal immigration laws.

San Francisco is an admitted sanctuary city and reports have shown they actually advertise that status, inviting illegal aliens to their town for protection.

Read the article for your self. It made nation wide news:http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2008/07/san-francisco-sanctuary-city-shielded.html

If after reading this you still support the idea of sanctuary cities which includes special safe harbor to protect criminals who are here illegally from arrest by federal authorities, then just place a post letting us know you support this special privilege. But remember, these are people who have an arrest warrant already issued for them! This is a protection not afforded to legal immigrants or American citizens....Its important that you make sure you understand the specific issue I'm addressing here.

If after all this you still disagree, then I'll be glad to tell you what "gives me the right" as you ask. But first, you should outline your logic that justifies why you believe illegals should enjoy this special privilege and why Mayors should be able to break federal law and their oath of office to the people they serve.

[kevthebassman]

With the number of manufacturing jobs NAFTA has sent down to Mexico, it's a wonder that the Mexicans have to come up here to make their livings.  If the two parties keep at it the way they have, pretty soon it'll be AMERICANS crossing the border to work in MEXICO!  Either that or we'll have to go to INDIA!

[Dee]

Now that bassman, is a fair statement. Pretty soon they WILL go back home to find work, and we will be the illegals. EXCEPT, in Mexico they deal with illegals VERY HARSHLY. Ask the ones trying to come up here from SOUTH OF MEXICO.

[Swampman]

"If we enforce immigration law and get rid of low cost illegal labor, all employers will have to equally reset their cost structure and pay the higher wage."

Why would they do that?  They'll just export the jobs overseas.  It's nearly impossible these days to find someone that wants to work, or that will even come to work.  Wages will continue to decline until ours match those in China and other crap hole countries.

Most Americans break the law everyday.

[Dee]

swampman, I for one, am well aware of your support for the illegal alien. You have voiced it in other forums. Never mind that they are wrecking our health care system, and undercutting such businesses as freight transport, (i.e. trucking industry) and are for the most part causing the closing of hospitals, and voting for more liberal politicians, by  using FALSE IDENTIFICATION for EVERYTHING THEY DO.
Folks like you, are why we have sanctuary cities, and folks like you, are the ones that hide these illegals instead of reporting them.
Folks like you ASSIST the law breaking illegal alien. When you defend their lawless entry into the United States, and when you defend their lawless occupation of the United States, you are in fact, defending your own lawlessness, and disregard for our sovereign borders. You are in fact showing your own complete disregard for our laws.

[Swampman]

And your statements show almost no understanding of the facts.  I support America and it's economy.  American employers need folks that want a job, and that will come to work once hired.  Without them they must move overseas and then we loose all the support jobs too.

Our economy will fail without employees.

If we would eliminate ALL socialism in America, then folks would have to go to work or starve.  That would fix the "problem."

[Dee]

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot support America AND "ILLEGAL ENTRY" INTO THE UNITED STATES.
You cannot support America, AND AN ILLEGAL INVASION OF FOREIGNERS. It is nonsensical.
For every dollar they earn, MOST GOES BACK TO MEXICO, and they contribute NOTHING TO OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, BUT RUINATION.
You are DELUSIONAL.

[Swampman]

They pay billions of dollars in taxes and social security that they can never get back.  That's why our government isn't interested in spending 200+ billion dollars to send them back to Mexico.  Eliminate ALL forms of socialism in America, and there will be no jobs left for undocumented folks.  Socialist leaders (democrats) created the problem.

[BBF]

To MG Morden:
The difference between modern day illegal immigrants vs those you mentioned primarily from European countries back then is the fact that they didn't expect or got all the social benefits freebies such little as they were available then, bad mouthed the US and marched into Congress carrying their flags and showing contempt for the laws of the land and having support of some very Un-American organizations helping them.

[powderman]

DEE. You make too much sense. These people need to be called what they are, invaders, illegals, felons, trespassers, and treated accordingly. I don't give a crap how many $ they put in the system, it can't touch the over $ 330,000,000,000 it cost the American taxpayer to keep them here. WAAAAAHHHHHH, tough. They don't like it, GO HOME. POWDERMAN.  

[Dee]

They pay billions of dollars in taxes and social security that they can never get back.  That's why our government isn't interested in spending 200+ billion dollars to send them back to Mexico.  Eliminate ALL forms of socialism in America, and there will be no jobs left for undocumented folks.  Socialist leaders (democrats) created the problem.

Swampman, you are merely REPEATING what I said on this thread concerning government on August 20th, post # 7, and the cure for the problem concerning the State of Oklahoma's actions August 21 in post # 11, and more of the same in a post I made on August 22nd in post# 21.
An ORIGINAL THOUGHT PLEASE.

[ironglow]

  The answer is quite simple; employers mujst be penalized for egregiously hiring illegals, "anchor babies" get no citizenship.
  Med insurance, to be shared by employer/employee..as with anyone else..
  If the aliens wish to get any work, they must register as such and get "alien worker" cards..those things are not a great
  deal to ask, and honest workers(as opposed to criminals) should be grateful for the opportunity !
        Trouble is, not many of our elected officials have enough intestinal fortitude to insist upon what is right !

        The arguiment that jobs will be driven offshore is specious, at best ! Most of these illegals work at chicken processing,
   tree farms, landscaping , building/labor trades, housekeepers, nannies, gardeners, ranches, picking fruit etc....

     How in the world could any of these jobs be moved "offshore" 

  The only ones that may come up unemployed under this plan, would be the criminal element..and most bof us would be
  pleased if they did move offshore....

[MGMorden]

To MG Morden:
The difference between modern day illegal immigrants vs those you mentioned primarily from European countries back then is the fact that they didn't expect or got all the social benefits freebies such little as they were available then, bad mouthed the US and marched into Congress carrying their flags and showing contempt for the laws of the land and having support of some very Un-American organizations helping them.

Then the solution there is to eliminate said programs and "freebies" - or at a minimum enforce their distribution to non-citizens (which really is a separate matter from illegals being present or not).

I'll quickly admit that I have a less extreme stance on this issue than most here.  I have no problems with the people from Mexico and 99% of the ones that I've met have been good folk.  The hiding of "rapists and murders" by policies such as we're describing here is deplorable, but by no means do "rapists and murderers" represent a majority of the group.  I'm also not going to latch onto the fact that they entered the country illegaly as something that should stigmatize them for life because, as Swampman said, Americans break laws every single day too.  Just here on the "Neighborhood cats" thread the overwhelming response was to quietly get rid of the cats regardless of the law of the land.  Now I don't disagree with that position myself either on that thread, but realize that people are going to ignore what they perceive to be unjust or silly laws.  The same was true during Prohibition.  The Government outlawed alchohol and eventually just had to give up on that law because people weren't going to obey it.  Or on a hypothetical: if Barrack Obama gets elected, and the day after he's sworn in he passes a law making all guns illegal, are you handing in all your guns, or are you going to dare to break the law?

It was once MUCH easier to enter this country legally than it is now.  And before that we basically shoved the native population off to make room anyways (and we didn't bother converting our language to Sioux, Cherokee, or any other language that was already spoken here).  And naturally, first generation emigrants are not going to have much loyalty to the country (and they never have).  Their children, who are born and raised here are likely to however. 

What I DO have a problem with, as stated, is that they're not paying the same taxes we do.  Some, yes.  Particularly sales tax.  They're also paying property taxes in some way or another as regardless of who owns their property officially, if the bill doesn't get paid it's going to be seized.  The problem is mainly with income tax which many are not paying (many are working off the books and no taxes are taken out), as well as a failure to work within the minimum wage system.  I'm by no means saying that anybody should be getting $25/hr to pick beans, but the national minimum wage of $5.50/hr (or whatever it is ATM) should at least be obeyed so as to not price indigenous workers out of the workforce.

The simple way out of this IMHO is to simplify immigration so that it's easier to enter legally.  Make it easy enough to enter legally without all the red tape and they won't even need to bother entering illegally.  That's getting back to the true spirit of America.  The melting pot.  Bring us your tired and huddled masses. After we get to that maybe we get finally get past "us vs them" and get on to all being Americans again.

[beemanbeme]

When Cabin4 sez anyone that disagrees with him is "unfit to call themselves Americans", as far as I'm concerned, he's the one that should be apologizing!! As I said, who is he to be telling anyone they are unfit to be an American.

Swampman has a grip on this thing.  It took Ike two years to get all of the illegals out of America but when he did it, there were American GI's that couldn't find work. AND WERE WILLING TO WORK. I want someone to tell me where this labour force is going to come from that is going to replace the illegals when they are sent home?  At entry level wages?  It ain't gonna happen. Too many programs; too many entitlements. 
Anyone that thinks building a fence acrost the border is going to stop anything is living in dream land. Anyone that thinks that getting rid of the illegals is going to suddenly mean that picking up the trash along the highway is gonna pay $25.00/hr is dreaming.  The trash is gonna lay there. Along with the lettuce in the fields. And the garbage. Your basic services are going to stop. The infrastructure will grind to a stop.  And when you suggest to some of the easy riding, third generation professional welfare recipients that they take a minimum wage job, you'll have riots.  No doubt about it.  This "wage restructuring"  is just a political ploy to get the 6th grade drop out vote. It ain't gonna work. Simply put, if you're a journeyman craftsman and they are paying some drooler say $25.00/hr to pick up blocks on the job site, what would you expect to be making?  What would a visit to a doctor cost?  Or are we gonna toss in socialized medicine while we're at it? 
Seal our borders. ROFLMAO. We can't even stop the flood of coke coming out of Columbia.  Or is that the plan? Get rid of the illegals, seal the borders, pay the droolers $25.00/hr, but let the coke filter thru so the droolers can get the nose candy they can now afford? 

[Dee]

Hey guys! The swampman, and the beeman have teamed up and formed a "save the illegal alien coalition".
Beeman, "name calling never solves anything". You are taking an opinion personally, because he used your post to make his point. If you think calling someone the names you called him is ok, then nuff said. The ideology explains itself.

[Cabin4]

When Cabin4 sez anyone that disagrees with him is "unfit to call themselves Americans", as far as I'm concerned, he's the one that should be apologizing!! As I said, who is he to be telling anyone they are unfit to be an American.

You want to know who I am? I'm me, a law abiding American. That's all I need to be to have an opinion on this. I don't put certain people into special categories and give them special privilages to break the law, breach our boarders, or whatever. I don't think that becasue your Mexican or whatever, you get to jump to the front of the immigration line and create your own immigration policy or get sanctuary status after you murder someone. So if this is a problem for anyone, I think they should pack their bags and get the hell out of our country right now.

I don't need to apologize to anyone, because I never accused you or anyone specific about being unfit to be an American. And even if I did, I'm not going to apologize to you or anyone about my opinion. You put yourself into the unfit category, not me.

There are people who are unfit and fit, to be an American just as every society has its litmas test.

I believe that when a Mayor takes an oath of office to uphold the law and then deliberately takes executive steps to openly violate the law, they are unfit to be a mayor and unfit to be an American. If anyone supports this, they are also unfit. Plain and simple. This is a country built upon laws and those that are designed to protect people from criminals are the most basic laws that every American should support. If someone does not, then they put us all at risk and no one person or mayor or person has the right to put me,my family or anyone at harm to prove a political point. If you do, your breaking the law!

At least we know were you stand on this issue. You rather see innocent people put at risk and mayor's hiding criminals from arrest warrants. Very sad. I wounder what laws these mayors may want to break in the future now that they now they can get away with this one? Maybe it will be one that you feel at risk too. Guess you just have to suck-it-up then, right?

[ironglow]

Beeman;
  I am surprised, you usually debate from an intellectual level..

[Swampman]

"You want to know who I am? I'm me, a law abiding American."

You never break the speed limit?  You pay taxes on every penny you make?  You've never broken even one law?

[Cabin4]

"You want to know who I am? I'm me, a law abiding American."

You never break the speed limit?  You pay taxes on every penny you make?  You've never broken even one law?

So I think I got now, if you break the speed limit, you should never speak out against someone who provides sanctuary to a murderer from law enforcement. And you should support illegal immigration at the same time. I see the parallel in all this. Because when this same murderer under sanctuary,kills someone in your family, you can go on with your life and rest easy knowing that you, must have broken some law at some point in your life. Make sure you put that on their head stones please.

Great point!