7 newly found cannons

[dan610324]

I can tell this now , very recently I found 7 nice guns in an place where they shouldnt be .
its 3 pairs of bronze  guns and one cast iron, but the cast iron piece is something they found under the basement in an house 100 years ago and its almost nothing left of it .
the oldest pair of the bronze guns are manufactured 1665 in stockholm, 5 foot long , 3 1/8 inch caliber , photo of one of those guns here under
middle pair , manufactured 1704 in falun, 4 foot long , 1 5/8 inch caliber
youngest pair , manufactured 1746 in falun , 4 foot long , 1 3/4 inch caliber

all 6 of them in extremely good condition , probably never been stored outside after there retirement .
this one shown here in picture are the oldest but also the most simple model without almost any fancy decorations , the other 2 models are as they should be much more fancy as they are from the 18th century and very rich decorated inspired by the frenchmen .

unfortunately the other guns was stored so stupid that it wasnt possible to take any photos . to much things around and on top of them .

I didnt only found them by an accident , it turned out that the place where they are located are interested in my safes I got here at the classifieds . they also want me to produce some carriages for them , but they dont have foundings for either safes or carriages .
with some luck I could be the owner of an identic pair of bronzeguns   

WOULD YOU BELIEVE ME IF I SAID IM HAPPY NOW  ??

but nothing is for sure until I got them here at home   

[cannonmn]

Very interesting Dan, I look forward to seeing more pictures with more details, and of course better light when you have time.  I have books listing all the known cannon founders and could look them up if I had all the details of the inscriptions.

[dan610324]

all pictures sent to you already , but only as photos , not as files .
there is no visible evidence from any galippa on this cannon , could it have been cast solid and drilled ??
look at the front and you see an thin copper piece that looks like an former front sight for me , could that really be so in such an early gun as 1665 ??

[dan610324]

its marked Iohan or Johan stockholm
but its so full of black paint that its difficult to read it clearly

[cannonmn]

I looked in my book that lists all the known founder's names, and there's nothing like Johan.  So perhaps that founder just diidn't make very many cannons, I don't know. 

That's the black-painted cannon, who cast the pair of green-patinated ones?

You should just send those guns to me for a full analysis, I will do it for free, it may take a while.

[A.Roads]

A very nice discovery & I wish you well in your endeavours.

I am most curious about the touch hole, I have not seen the like of it - has anyone ever seen such an arrangement before? Presumably it was for loose powder & predates quill fuzes etc.
Whilst I imagine that a perceived advantage is a capacity to hold a decent "pan" of powder the disadvantages would seem to outweight this, such as -
Loose powder in an open pan works well on a still day but would be challenging in wet or windy conditions - perhaps not so much between the decks of a ship though.
The entire pan could easily be broken off during transport and the like.
There would be further for the flame to have to travel to achieve ignition of the main charge & perhaps more difficult to clear the touch hole when blocked etc.
The backwards flash would be rather nasty, though one doesn't stand immediately behind a cannon being fired (not more than once anyway!).
With such a large pan there would be a tendency to use too much priming powder which could be perceived to be hazardous & unnecessary.

Perhaps that is why this "feature" is uncommon?
Adrian 

[cannonmn]

The vent of the cannon pictrued appears to have been re-bouched, probably in modern times.  If you ask the museum they might know some of its recent history.  I'd suspect it was being used as a salute gun somewhere.

[dan610324]

no its not an salute cannon , it have been belonging to the military in that town for town defence . the museum got it directly from the local regiment
it also have been used that much that it have been rebored sometime during the time of use .
and the touchhole have been repaired and the bore is also enlarged from the origin size, but at least not after 1852 ( since then the museum have owned it ) so if before that is modern time , yes . the black painting was done 1954.
king karl XII was standardice the cannons in early 1700 to not need to take as many different sizes for balls , but he slightly over bored them . in that way the enemies couldnt use the swedish balls if they captured any , but the swedes could still use captured enemy balls , that quite clever to have been found out some 300 years ago   
the 45 degree angle touchhole is not that uncommon in early northern european guns . Im not so sure for the rest of the world .
another well known example is the vasa cannon .
from the beginning it probably been an 3 pounder regimental cannon .
this is the one and only of them that I have been able to examin so far, the others aint possible to reach for the moment .
but that will be done as soon as they are awailable , be so sure     but probably the other 2 pairs are local castings , but not sure .
but some documents found in the museum archive indicates that it could be so .
by the way John could you please tell me the name of that book with founders names , what names to you got there from sweden during the 1600 - 1800 time period ??  I can probably give you a few more names , Trotzig and Calhoun is 2 of them .
and by indications from archives its possible that some of the swedish copper mines was casting bronze guns also .
remember that in sweden you must have an royal permit to cast cannons . if not it could be death penalty .
do you really mean you will do that for me for free ??  ooooohhh thats nice   
how long time will it take ?? 100 years ?? or 200 ??      well I dont think I can afford the shipping cost 

[cannonmn]

Dan, the book with all the names in it is GUNFOUNDING AND GUNFOUNDERS by A.N. Kennard.  It is an improved version of the classic 1920's or 1930's GUNFOUNDERS OF ENGLAND.  The Kennard book is only organized alphabetically by founder name, not by country, so one would have to read each of hundreds of entries to cull out the Swedish founders.  I know there are some Swedish iron gunfounders in it since those guns went everywhere, even many to the US.  The Swedish bronze products may have been more limited, don't know.

Why did the museum paint the bronze gun black in 1954?

What I'm trying to get across about the bouch in the vent is this:  When that gun was cast back in the 17th C., nobody was putting any kind of bouche in the cannons's vent, they just drilled a small hole in the bronze gun and that was it.  It is obvious that there's at least one, if not two, separate pieces of nonferrous metal that have been inserted somehow in that vent, and since it probably did not come that way from the founder, it had to have been added later.  That's all.

[Cannoneer]

 

but they dont have foundings for either safes or carriages .

   Dan, what is meant by foundings?

[dan610324]

as the bore also is resized I think the old vent was burnt out and if you look at the color it clearly shows that the added material is brass not bronze . probably they have pre heating the vent with white hot iron rods and cast in liquid brass and drilled an new went . what I know thats the way they did when an vent was to much enlarged by heavy shooting . of course its made later then the casting .
when the guns was to much shot and the bore and vent was in bad shape they restored them by casting the vents and drilling an new went , they also oversized the bore to have it good again .

why it was painted no one who lives today can tell , there is just an small note at the museums rgister card that it was done .

sorry boom j maybe I used an wrong word , this is an small private museum and they dont have money enough to by the safes or having the carriages manufactured . and they are in an desperate need of the safes , cannons are not there interest , they are an completely other kind of museum , but they have an collection of small items they show parts of for the public , but the rest that not are in the exhibition is probably worth somewhere between 10 and 20 million us dollars . now they store those items in an room with an thin steel sheet door with almost not any burglar protection at all . thats why I hope to have an posibility to be the owner of one of those 3 pairs of cannons .

[dan610324]

when looking at the bore and vent its almost for sure that the cannon have been very little or maybe not at all fired after the repair .
its in such perfect condition in the bore and touchhole

[Cannoneer]

   Thanks dan. I was pretty sure you meant money or funds I just wanted to make sure. If things turn out the way you'd like them to this would certainly be one incredible windfall, I wish you the best of luck. 

[dan610324]

he he he   me to   

[Cannoneer]

   Dan, scroll down and you'll get to read about leather bound cannons with photos of some of the existing specimens, keep scrolling down till you get to the chapter titled "Identification Signs" P., 20 and check out the drawing of the bronze 3 PDR., notice the vent field and vent angle.


http://books.google.com/books?id=YylYMtCMz2UC&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=leather+cannons&source=web&ots=Gt-HHlyPYF&sig=wLgJycvOu4YLveXRGt8Zeo11ZxU&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result#PPA17,M1

[dan610324]

yes that angle is common on early nordic guns , why it was in that angle I have no idea about .
maybe they had any thoughts of ignite the powder in the center of bore , I dont know .
but thats the way we do it today .