Author Topic: Shopping for Youth Deer Bolt action - Any Tips on Models and Cartridges (Read 2775 times)

Scout · « **on:** August 19, 2008, 04:28:23 PM »

My son (almost 12 ) is ready to move into a deer rifle (whitetails - Eastern) and I have been eyeing a Savage 10 GY Youth.. They come in 223, 243 and 308.. I am a 30 cal kind of guy (or larger), but starting to appreciate the 223 as useful round after all these years - I digress.. Another thread I spose.. 223 too small for deer IMO..

Does anyone out there succesfully load down 308 (I handload 308 and other 30 cal's ) for lower recoil for youth? I am loath to add yet another caliber to the ammo / component shopping list and have never liked 243 that much...

Any tips on other decent youth bolt actions? I read some threads on the Model 7 - .. My hope is someone has used a Sav 10 GY and can relate their experience.

Thanks !
Scout

PartsMan · « **Reply #1 on:** August 19, 2008, 04:40:55 PM »

I am sure there are lots of reduce loads for 308.
Easier to load a 308 down to 223 recoil than load a 223 up to 308 power.

That being said a 223 will kill deer. You just have to be patient and pick your shot.

243dave · « **Reply #2 on:** August 19, 2008, 05:24:04 PM »

http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/specs/specs_youth2n1.html I saw one of these rifles with the 2 stocks(one youth the other adult-sized) in 7mm-08 last summer and thought at the time it was perfect for a young hunter, but I already had a rifle for my youngest. Howa makes a good accurate rifle with a easily adjustable trigger. With the 2 stocks you can make it a adult-sized rifle in 2 or 3 years from now when he gets big enough. I can't remember the price of this rifle but I know it wasn't much. Go to the howa's site and check them out, and don't discount the ones with the nikko-sterling scopes, the ones I've handled seems to be clear and well made. Dave

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #3 on:** August 19, 2008, 06:55:48 PM »

My little boy is 39 years old but I have begun thinking about the 9 year old grandson who is coming along. The Howa 1500 mentioned above has caught my eye as well. I like the idea of being able to stay with the same gun as the youngster gets bigger.

Loading a standard cartridge such as .308 or even 30-06 down to a manageable level seems to me the way to go. There is reduced recoil ammo available from the big name brands. That makes more sense than buying a marginal caliber. The last thing you want a young hunter to experience is a wounded animal and all that goes with it.

My thought is that the gun itself needs to be one the youngster can physically handle well enough to observe good firearms safety. Also, hearing protection is a must not only to protect against damage but to avoid flinching caused by muzzleblast regardless of caliber.

1sourdough · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2008, 12:53:45 AM »

I'm a big 308 fan myself. I will be out with my 12 y/o this fall on a few deer hunts. I had planned to load down some 30-30 bullets in the 308 with Hodgdon 4895 powder but went the 243 route instead. I had bought some 150 & maybe even 125 grn bullets ment for the 30-30. With Hodgdon's %60 rule I could take them down to 30-30 velocities. The 1st youth hunt is MI the last weekend on Sept. He has been practicing with my Mod 70 Classic Compact 243. I loaded up some 95 grn Partions for the task.

I think a Savage youth model in 243 would be a fine choice. We talk alot about shot placement & we won't do any hail mary or running shots.

PartsMan · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2008, 03:48:01 AM »

One thing to remember on the rifle is getting one you can buy a full sized stock for later.
The savage deffinetly fits that bill.

Freezer · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2008, 05:42:25 AM »

My sugestion is Rem Model 7 in 260 Rem or 7-08,
I have loaded reduced loads for 306 and 06. Stay away form 125 they're pistol bullets and may not perform well. I prefer 135's using IMR 30-31. Remington makes factoory reduced recoil loads also.
Though their not fancy NEF handi rifles also come to mind of even an Encore if you can afford it. One rifle serves allot of purposes and it's a good safe gun for a kid and both have youth stocks. The other advantage is it teaches them to make their one shot count!

beemanbeme · « **Reply #7 on:** August 20, 2008, 06:54:47 AM »

I am a strong believer in the two stock idea for a growing hunter. And I am a strong believer in putting the kid in the woods with a rifle that will do a number on a deer with a litte latitude in bullet placement.
If the young hunter can't handle a .260 or a 7-08, maybe you need to wait a couple of years. That said, (and I'm not interested in any screams from the .243 or .223 shooters), if you want to stay with the 30 calibres, buy a .308 and down load it or have a muzzle brake put on it. (I never thought I'd reccomend that.

)
I agree with Freezer, a Model 7 in .260 or 7-08 is about as good as it gets in deer rifles. A nice 2x7 or 1.5x5 to balance the rig out and your kid will be handing it down to his kids.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #8 on:** August 20, 2008, 07:25:31 AM »

Quote from: Scout on August 19, 2008, 04:28:23 PM

My son (almost 12 ) ... Does anyone out there succesfully load down 308 (I handload 308 and other 30 cal's)

Never tried it but I see little reason why it would be difficult to do. After looking at the Rem. reduced loads I bought a box of 125 gr. 30 cal Rem Core Lokts and played with seeing how fast I could drive them. Turned out to not be worth the effort but I don't see why you couldn't load some up at 2400 - 2500 fps and not be undergunned for deer.

Quote

have never liked 243 that much...

I agree with you there, for deer anyway...

I really shouldn't say this... somebody will accuse me of trolling!

Quote

Any tips on other decent youth bolt actions? I read some threads on the Model 7

I agree 100% with Bee-man and Freeze! I've got 2 M7's, a 7/08 and a .260. The 260 is a youth model I picked up as a doner for a .250 Savage project. But I may take it hunting this year in it's current .260 guise.... Either caliber is GREAT for deer and easy on the shoulder, even with factory loads. The Model Seven is right up there with canned beer in the usefullness catagory!

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 20, 2008, 09:28:45 AM »

I went through this myself 2 years ago He was 9 at the time. 1st I set him up with a handi 30-30 & cut down the stock, loadded up some 125gr pointy boolits, hogdon'd youth loads. He took his 1st deer at 131 yrs with this. I then bought him a youth model rem model 7 in 7-08 put a leopold ultra light scope on it & loaded some 120 gr boolits at about 2500fps youth loads. He practiced with this load for 4 or 5 months. We got an invite for him to hunt last year on a private ranch. He took 2 deer at 100yrds with this load. This is a rifle I would like to have for myself, it shoots great & handles well & easy to carry lighter than most but it does have a tupperware stock on it

Every time we go & shoot he takes his deer rifle & puts at least 10-20 rds through it at a deer target I set up at 100yrds.

Time to get out again soon

my 2 cents

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** August 20, 2008, 09:58:21 AM »

Were I looking for a bolt action youth gun today I'd look for one of the Remington Model Seven Youth models in .260 Remington. Depending on just how tall the youth is and how long the arms are even youth stocks might need to be cut a bit shorter but with the Model Seven replacement stocks are easily available to make it into an adult size gun when the youth grows enough for a full size stock.

Yeah a .243 should work and recoils a bit less but my own personal experience with it was less than stellar and I guess I just don't fully trust it. The .308 is fine but pretty much requires light reloads to prevent a bad case of the flinches as does my much loved 7-08. If you reload that's really not a problem however. The .260 can be had in factory loads light enough to not require reloads if that matters and reloads can be made up to make it as effective as any and yet still have light recoil.

I have little experience with Savage guns at all and what I have had was not so good and not recent so likely isn't applicable to the gun you mention. Many trust them and even praise them but I'd about as soon throw rocks personally as to own a Savage. I'll personally pass on them and if I bring a bolt gun home you can almost bet that it will say REMINGTON on it.

Scout · « **Reply #11 on:** August 20, 2008, 10:31:42 AM »

Thanks to you all for your replies. This is my second attempt at this message.. My original and longer reply post went into the Ether I suppose . I am always impressed with the helpfulness and goodness of the folks at this forum .. I am leaning to a downloaded 308 right now and looking closely at a Howa or Weatherby youth.. The Howa compact Rancher has my attention too (for me) .. GB, I will give the Remington Model 7 another look although I have not liked the Remington rifles I have shot in the past - I love their shotguns though.. I am going to go toward the higher quality end if I can afford it.. I want him to have a good solid rifle he can 'feel' , that is not fancy but is worthy of passing onward..

More replies are accepted too.. I am gonna take a little while on this tasker.

akpls · « **Reply #12 on:** August 20, 2008, 10:44:55 AM »

You could give the Weatherby Vanguard package in 7mm08 a look. I comes with both a youth and adult-sized stock. We picked one up for my son (then 10 yo) a couple of years ago and have been quite happy with it.

whiskey101 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 20, 2008, 11:37:57 AM »

I just went through the same search for my daughter. I wanted the Savage too, but couldn't find one local to hold. I did find a remington 700 SPS Youth in .243 and liked it alot. The trigger is great and adjustable. The price was not much more than the Savage. As far as caliber, I have tried the .308, .243 and .223 and decided that the .243 was the best choice for my daughter and myself. I hope she hunts with it the rest of her life, but if not, no big deal. I will just use it.
Here is the one I got and I love it not that I have shot it some.

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** August 20, 2008, 11:46:59 AM »

I'd try to get a Remington if at all possible.

RaySendero · « **Reply #15 on:** August 20, 2008, 12:17:05 PM »

Click on link below:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/youth/model_seven_youth_specs.asp

whiskey101 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 20, 2008, 02:07:33 PM »

The model 7 youth looks nice. It is a little more money than the 700, but it is also 3/4 of a pound lighter. That may or may not be an advantage. I think my daughter needs the weight in the rifle to off set the recoil. The place I bought my 700 had a model 7, but it was a fancier model and a good bit more money. You can't go wrong with either or the Savage. You may also want to look at the Howa Youth. They are basically a Weatherby Vanguard and are good rifles.

charles p · « **Reply #17 on:** August 20, 2008, 03:19:46 PM »

I started my kid at 10. He had a 20 guage youth shotgun his first year then got a Mod 70 Featherweight for Christmas. It was a 243. I think it was the first year they reintroduced it (US Repeating Arms).

If I had to do it again, I'd opt for the 260 or 7mm-08 in a Rem Mod 7. You can shorten the stock and later get an aftermarket stock as he gets taller. I have a Mod 7 Rem in 7mm-08 and it has very little recoil compared to my other rifles. I think a kid could handle it OK.

I advise you to pick a long eye relief scope, regardless of the rifle you select. If your kid gets whacked in the eye with his scope, he will carry a scar and a flinch for a very long time. Leupold makes a 2.5X8 that is what I used and I have never had a problem with it. Twenty years later, its still a good little scope.

Freezer · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2008, 06:28:52 PM »

Model seven in 260 or 7-08 though I prefer the 260. Lite recoil, good bullet selection, and the bullet coefficient and sectional density are great! That means she can shoot ground hog or moose with it!
Though you said "Bolt " I still wouldn't discount an Encore! Youth and adult stocks, multiple calibers for one investment!
Charles posted while I was typing.... I agree but your talking about a VXIII 2.5x8 and though I agree it is optimum a VXII 2x7 can do much the same thing for less money. JMHO

Brithunter · « **Reply #19 on:** August 20, 2008, 11:43:34 PM »

Hi All,

Another one to consider would be the CZ 527 in 7.62x39, cheap ammo for practice and there is more choice for hunting rounds in this cartridge now. Have fun with your choice and pease let us know what you end up getting and how it works out.

the jigger · « **Reply #20 on:** August 21, 2008, 07:06:19 AM »

I shoot a model 10 "Sierra" in 308. I also load 308 for a lady friend.
My pet load for Florida deer is 49.5gr of Varget under a 125gr Bal tip.
My lady load is 48gr of varget under the same bullet.
The laby shoots a handi-rifle and says the load is quite comfortable to shoot.
IMHO you won't go wrong with the Savage 10 youth and it is a rifle that your boy can shoot the rest of his life by simply changing out the stock.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!!

CWT · « **Reply #21 on:** August 22, 2008, 04:15:32 AM »

My little girl will be 11 this year and it will be her 3rd year dear hunting. She shot her first doe at age 9 and another last year. All with a 7mm-08 TC Encore. If you need a shorter length of pull you can buy the youth butt stock. This is something she can use forever and also be the gun daddy gave her. A .243 or .260 would also be a good choice. The recoil of the 7mm-08 doesn't seem to bother her but then again she probably doesn't shoot it more than 10 times during the year. I let her practice with a 22 LR and 17HMR and throw in the 7mm-08 on occasion. This way she doesn't develop any bad habits. Due to her small size we always hunt on the ground and she uses a shooting stick. Two perfect shots and two quick kills. I put an 80 yds max distance limit but this year she is hitting a 3" circle everytime at 120 yds so we'll increase that range this year.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #22 on:** August 22, 2008, 11:24:35 AM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on August 20, 2008, 06:54:47 AM

I am a strong believer in the two stock idea for a growing hunter. And I am a strong believer in putting the kid in the woods with a rifle that will do a number on a deer with a litte latitude in bullet placement.
If the young hunter can't handle a .260 or a 7-08, maybe you need to wait a couple of years. That said, (and I'm not interested in any screams from the .243 or .223 shooters), if you want to stay with the 30 calibres, buy a .308 and down load it or have a muzzle brake put on it. (I never thought I'd reccomend that. )
I agree with Freezer, a Model 7 in .260 or 7-08 is about as good as it gets in deer rifles. A nice 2x7 or 1.5x5 to balance the rig out and your kid will be handing it down to his kids.

No need to scream.

A friend's son took a nice doe last year with a .243 "youth" load I loaded using data from Hodgdon's online data.

If animals larger than deer are forseen a 7mm-08 or .308 is a good choice. Cartridges more powerful than a .243 are a good choice too.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #23 on:** August 22, 2008, 03:00:31 PM »

I would go with a 260 or a 7MM-08 both are great rounds and won't beat him up on recoil. Dale

crash87 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 22, 2008, 03:39:34 PM »

When my son was 8, I stopped in a gun store on my way back from a job out of state. I found on the used rack a Remington Model 7, in 260 Rem. It was marked down 100 bucks from the price of a new one. Now come on, how used is a used youth rifle, it looked new and for 100 less it was mine. He is now 12 and is starting his first season as a legaly liscenced hunter,(Wisconsin). 2 javelina have fallen to this young man so far, taken in Texas last Feb. But, to the point, I downloaded his ammo when he 1st started shooting. Taking the bullet of choice, finding a load in Hodgdons manual, with H4895 and taking 60% of that. I'm not a believer in going with lighter bullets for less recoil, i.e. 125 gr in say, a .308, for hunting, but practice is fine. Go to Hodgdons site there is a page on youth loads describing the 60% w/H4895. I'm quite fond of the 308 myself and "IF" that 260 was so chambered it would have been the one going home. In my opinion, the rounds like the 260, 7/08, and 308 are all peas in the same pod as it comes to Whitetail deer and our youth or anyone for that matter My son doesn't know it yet but because of his already owning a 260, his next step up will be a nice Remington 700 BDL I got sitting in the safe, Caliber .30, year of 1906. Big brother if you will. CRASH87

AtlLaw · « **Reply #25 on:** August 22, 2008, 06:16:13 PM »

All y'all are so lucky! My youngest is over 30 and some of my fondest memories are of hunting with my kids. Do it! Enjoy it! And make it fun for them!

What they shoot is secondary! I wish I could do it again...

Well, I did take one of my grandbabies shooting a couple of weeks ago...

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #26 on:** August 22, 2008, 06:23:11 PM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on August 22, 2008, 06:16:13 PM

All y'all are so lucky! My youngest is over 30 and some of my fondest memories are of hunting with my kids. Do it! Enjoy it! And make it fun for them! What they shoot is secondary! I wish I could do it again... Well, I did take one of my grandbabies shooting a couple of weeks ago...

Atlaw. Good for you!!!! That is really what life is about. There is nothing more inportant than your family. Dale

1sourdough · « **Reply #27 on:** August 23, 2008, 01:36:00 AM »

I didn't see it mentioned but the Browning 'Micro-Hunter' & Micro-Medallion is a nice compact rifle also worth a look.

banen · « **Reply #28 on:** August 24, 2008, 05:57:57 AM »

I know I am mostly echoing everybody elses points here but here are my two points. My biggest suggestion is get something they will want to continue to use when they get older. Get a 308 (or a 7-08 but personally don't care for it but i have to admit it is an excellent deer cartridge). Stay away from the .243, this cartridge will definately kill deer but I consider it more of an experts cartridge than a beginners.

Second point get something that has or can have a full size stock for when they are older. My dad started me out with a ruger ultralight 308 and full size stock and although I have other rifles it is still the gun I grab 90% of the time. I just like having that history and nastolgia. I know my dad picked that gun out just for me and we have shared a lot of great seasons since then. To me that is what hunting is about. If you give him something now that he will want to keep, 20 years from now he will probably be on a deer stand looking at it with fond memories of when you gave it to him.

corbanzo · « **Reply #29 on:** August 25, 2008, 05:32:34 PM »

I would go for the rem 700. Something in the .308 variety sounds about right, as you have heard. The reason I recommend the 700 is becasue of the availability of aftermarket stocks. I just bought a 700 sps brand new, so it takes the 700bdl stock, bought a bdl used wood stock, which was shortened for my girl. So she has the short stock, and I still have the long stock to use when I want to borrow it.

And with a gun like that, as your kid grows, you know that there will be a stock available cheaply somewhere.