Author Topic: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!  (Read 1283 times)

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Offline Freezer

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Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« on: August 20, 2008, 06:27:06 AM »
   Blacktail are the sneakiest brush loven little critters God ever made.  Jim Zumbo called them ghost deer.  I hunt N cal in some very steep country.  Though I only got back into hunting 11 years ago I do very well being skunked two years but making up for it by getting two deer on two separate years. 
   I chose to still hunt so I can move as the sun comes up and the deer shift into the shade.  I also like to hunt above ravines where the brush is close to the top of the mountain where they'll cross from the south side to the north.  Late afternoon I like to shift to the lake bottom to catch them coming in for tender shoots going there. 
   I've tried the toys but have had any results positive or negative.  I do pratice scent control using scent lock soaps and bay leaf cover scent made from the local trees.  This has worked very well for me and I often have does within feet of me.  I sure wish they'd let us shoot doe :'(
   So what techniques do you use for Blacktail?

Offline lewdogg21

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2008, 05:16:22 AM »
I hunt D4 around 4k feet but the deer are blacktails.  Due to a fire 15 years ago the brush is ungodly thick in some locations so I try to find trails and areas with deer and stand hunt those. I'd love to sill hunt under the cover of conifers but they all burned down. :(

The woods are so dry right now you can hear every animal including deer just moving around.

Offline Freezer

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2008, 03:33:27 AM »
    I carry a squirrel call for that reason.  Seems those squirrels can make all the noise they want but let me move a leaf and everything is looking at me.

Offline smokepolehall

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2008, 09:43:06 AM »
the only time i got to hunt them was when i was in grade school. my Pa was in the navy and i got a 4 pt and a 3 pt. with my 410 and slug on 4 pt. the 3 pt i got with my Pa's rem 35 pump. i would get up on those redwood stumps and sit by a trail. when one come by in range i would clobber him
Keep yer nose into the wind & slip from tree to tree in the shadows, you have come fer pilgrim! Miss Vixen & Miss Phoenix, I am The Vixenmaster!

Offline kernman

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2008, 01:43:00 PM »
What a thrill to see someone else who wants to talk blacktails!

I live in the Central California mountains - from 5600 to 9000 feet - where blacktails are hybrid with mule deer. They look more like blacktails, but they have long ears and they stott (hop) like mulies. I guess their behavior is more like blacktails, they are forest deer, but they are not as secretive as blacktails.

I am still waiting to fill a tag after three years. I am relatively new to deer hunting, but I've been scouting these critters hard for five years.

Freezer, can you tell me some about your techniques? And anybody else, please share.

I live in Los Padres National Forest, and I have more area to hunt than I would ever get to know in my lifetime. Problem is deciding where.

Finally I have decided to just focus on the area closest to my home, and get to know it intimately. I've learned where deer go when they feel threatened - up or down depending on where they feel more safe, and what cover is closer.

During rifle season, I plan on using road hunters to help bring the deer to me. They hunt the higher elevations and the deer go down about a 1000 feet to escape. I plan to camp about halfway down, and watch the saddles, and the shelves where the does hang out, in case there is still any rut activity.

Bow season I plan to just walk and see how close I can get. Its amazing how close these critters will let you get. There are lots of campers so and mountain bikers to they are used to humans.

Right now they are higher up where there are still green plants. They will be back down in about 6 weeks when the acorns start to fall. I know where they drink so I think this might be the year for me.

For the first time I plan to bowhunt; I took one week off during bow season and another during rifle season in mid-October. Last year I saw lots of bucks during September bow season but they were gone come rifle season. Rut was in full swing and they will literally churning up trails and making new ones in new places. 

 

Offline Freezer

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2008, 08:31:57 AM »
   The area I hunt is Lake Shasta.  The terrain is very steep and and diverse.  There are areas of fur trees, black oak, Mazanita like you wouldn't believe and the southern slop is covered by brush oak (not huntable). 
    Every blacktail I've ever seen runs down when spooked.  They also head straight to cover.  Once in they don't run, they sneak!  They may circle you!  They will only leave the brush for a short time then right back in.  That said hunt the edges.  I've never seen a buck far from the edges during the day and when I did he was heading for the brush and or was with does.  Early in the season they are still in bachelor pods but that will change quickly.  These deer (according to a DFG biologist) don't need much water and if the source is in the open will only water at night.  If pressured Blacktail move into the thickest brush possible.  They are brousers not grazers.  Blacktail prefer small shoots but will eat acorns and leaves.  According to the biologist there's more nutrition in the shoot at the bottom of a plant than there is in the entire bush.  Look for green shoots.
    I hunt the lake bottom at last light to find a buck following the doe to the green shoots.
    For the present I still hunt to a place where I'll set in an improvised ground blind.  I prefer to enter the woods no later than 5:00 am  then nap till shooting time.  I prefer to hunt brush piles above the top of a ravine or saddle.  Blacktail are not animals of habit so you have a 1-in-4 chance of seeing the same buck on the same trail. 
    Because theY live in steep country they can change their climate easily.  I hunt the early and mid morning near the top of the ridge that has a northern and southern exposure.  They will often spend their morning on the warmer southern side then cross over to the north as the day warms up.  From what I've seen they like saddles where the brush on the northern slope is close to the top.  Everything they do is for comfort, security and energy conservation. 
    All that said a tree stand in a ravine below a saddle where the brush is above or below you and both on sides would be great.  If there are green shoots in your watering holes use them but stay in the tree line and for God's sake don't move these are spooky little critters. 
    I often see bucks trailing does, not as a member of the herd but using the does as a warning system.  You'll rarely see a blacktail alone, they're always in groups either a doe with fawns or other does while the buck is hiding somewhere watching them. 
    When they bed down they will do so strategically, many times near the top of a ridge.  They also face different directions so they can survey the entire area. 
    When looking for blacktail don't look for a deer, only a part of one.  The twitch of an ear or bob of the head.  Any little movement. 
    Because of the weather we hunt in the woods are very noisy.  If you think your moving too slow, slow down even more.  Many times I hear the deer coming to me before I see them.  That said they'll hear you.  One trick I've learned is to carry a squirrel call.  Those little @$$^*(($ can make all the noise they want, let me make one bad step and everything in the woods is looking at me.  That silly little call has saved my bacon many a time. 
    I also pratice scent control.  Because I'm on the ground the the action can get personal.  I use scent free products.  I also use natural cover scents. Where I hunt there are Bay Trees.  I make a Bay Tea and spray it on myself all day.  Using this technique I have deer walk within feet of me.  Even had a bear ten feet away and he didn't spook. :o
    There is a good book written by Boyd Iverson, HUNTIUNG TROPHY BLACKTAILS.  Though he hunts the rain forest of Washington State there's a lot to learn from his book. 
    Hope this helps. 

Offline kernman

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2008, 05:37:39 PM »
Freezer,

It sounds like your area is steeper. In the immediate area where I have been seeing deer lately, the moutain is flat on top, about a square mile in spots. In the area Im scouting, the deer come up to feed at night, then bed down near the top of the southern slope. Then, they move with the shade.

Now this changes depending on locale where I live. There are lots of steep areas. I know they also bed down on northern and western slopes here depending on where the sun is. But I think this is universal, right? Deer will find shade when its hot. They use the terrain the have to the best of their advantage.

You said "a tree stand in a ravine below a saddle where the brush is above or below you and both on sides would be great."

I'm trying to picture what you mean. There are saddles where I go, but I'm not sure why a tree stand would help since I can already see down into the canyon, and I can stay hidden in brush and the shadows of pines.

I am assuming these saddle trails are used mainly as escape trails. This particular one runs from east to west. From what I have observed, deer spooked near the top run down into the ravive, and then, if they are still pressured, they cut the west, and climb the saddle, then they pop over the top and down into the next ravine.

There is a running stream at the bottom. One trail runs to it. I swear, this is a place road hunters never see. And its only about a mile from  the road.

I ran into a buck and a doe together yesterday. They spooked, and popped down into the canyon out of sight. I gave them a couple of minutes, because I didnt want to pressure them (bow season starts Saturday). I looked down: about 300 feet below, another deer was running full speed, across my line of sight, along a shelf, toward the west. I wonder if something else spooked it. I dont think it was me. I figure if you pressed that deer it would head up toward that saddle.

I hope to position myself near that saddle, near the top, where the warming air will carry my scent up and away from them.

Like I said, I've done a lot of scouting. It all comes down to having faith in my instincts, and my knowledge at this point. I've certainly worn out some shoe leather over the past five years.




 

Offline kernman

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2008, 05:57:08 PM »
Freezer,

OK, I see what you mean about a tree stand DOWN in the ravine. That ravine is an escape highway, and If I am positioned right, whatever gets spooked on top will eventually come my way, on its way up to the saddle. That is assuming there is enough pressure behind it to keep it moving past me.


Offline Freezer

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2008, 08:01:53 AM »
    Exactly!  A tree stand also gets your scent off the ground level and gives you a view into the brush.  These deer will sneak back up into their favorite cover spot.  The thicker the better.  If you can look down into the brush you may see them coming back in or shifting to the shady side of the hill through the brush.
    Most animals migrate for comfort but Blacktail usually won't follow the same pattern unless there's no pressure and a good reason.  I watched a 3x3 last year come to the lake to feed last year the same time every night.  He was always the last deer out of the woods and always at last light.  That was his down fall.  I watched him four out of five nights as he tailed behind a herd of six doe.  I didn't shoot the first four nights because I was alone and the drag too far and too steep.  I waited for others to come to camp then ended his parade. 
    I've often wondered if rattling will spook or attract deer.  I have to drive four hours to get to my hunting spot so I haven't been able to experiment with doe bleats or horns.  Is there any chance you can try it while you scout?
 

Offline Freezer

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2008, 08:52:54 AM »
    Deer season opens Saturday!   I went through some of my Blacktail reading material and one key point they make is hunt down.  They usually will bed down on shelves and near the tops of ridges.  so hunt above them.

Offline kernman

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2008, 05:36:36 PM »
I've always heard, and I have come to believe, that bucks like to bed just below narrow, rocky ridges, in lonely, isolated places.

I once jumped a buck on one of those isolated ridges while scouting during the summer. He would be a trophy, I think, by local standards.

I followed his track, walked up to within maybe 15 feet of him, looked up, and there he was, laying there, staring at me. I stupidly made eye contact with him. Then he bolted. He apparently assumed I wouldn't see him, and that I would walk on by.

Unfortunately, I gave that buck an education, and you can be sure he's going to be harder to hunt now. If I had it to do over again, I would have walked by, and pretended I didn't see him.

I stay away from those kinds of places now when scouting, I just assume a buck probably beds there. There is nothing to be gained in rousting him, and taking away his sense of security.

I'm scouting such a place now that is visible from another ridge. I'm willing to bet this place is home to a big buck, maybe more than one. I'm absolutely convinced. Its a fortress; any buck bedded there could see it for miles. He would only be vulnerable when he comes down for food and water.

But these kinds of places are not always available and when they are dominant bucks claim them, I think.

So they end up in places that does like, such as shelves, and just below ridge tops. But I like what you say about hunting down, Freezer. There really isn't any other way, is there?

Offline Freezer

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2008, 05:17:17 AM »
    Ok, got to the lake to do some scouting last Thursday.  Saw a couple bucks come down to the water and will drop one of those later in the season when the other hunters aren't driving on the lake bottom and scaring them off.  One is a big 3x3.  I went to the top of the ridge and hunkered down under a dead fall.  It's very steep and a ravine starts 200 yards to my left and below.  To right and below me two hundred yards is a major bedding area.  I saw nine doe moving in both directions.  At 10:30 I saw a doe come out of the ravine there were other doe with her but couldn't see them.  There was an immense rack out there but that buck stayed too low and in the heaviest brush.  They were followed by a nice 3x3.  I dropped him.  I decided to quarter him and go home to process the meat.  No sense in filling both tags in one weekend ;D

Offline Freezer

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2008, 05:21:31 AM »
    By the way the drag was brutal.  We had a 250 yard drag that winded three of use.  Another good reason to hunt near the top ;)

Offline kernman

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2008, 05:06:15 PM »
Freezer,

When you say hunt near the top, I assume you mean work your way down slow, until you see something? Sometimes, like that buck I jumped on the ridge top, its not possible to hunt above them, because they are only bedded maybe a few feet below the ridge top.

And you can't get up to them without spooking them. But I think your scenario works under the right conditions. You need to have a ridge top that it fairly wide, so you can sneak in on them, right?

By the way, your hunting area sounds a WHOLE lot different than mine. We don't have any lakes around here, and no where near as many deer, apparently.

What zone is it? And congrats on your deer. Must be nice to worry about "filling both tags in one weekend!"

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2008, 08:46:08 PM »

Freezer, congratulations on getting out and filling a tag.

When possible I like to hunt from the top off a primary ridge and the take a secondary ridge to the bottom.  I have found that most deer travel routes are not on the ridge top itself but on a contour about fifty yards off the top depending on the topography and vegetation. 

A morning hunt may start at the bottom with me working up slope to take advantage of the natural down canyon breezes, when it starts heating up in the late morning and the flow of air switches to up canyon it is the time for the downslope hunt. 

Once stormy weather hits and storm movement from the Pacific push inland then I have to play it by ear. 

Checking weather forecast maybe a key to success.  A sample forecast for the Shasta Lake area.

RIDGE OF HIGH PRESSURE BUILDS OVER THE AREA BRINGING WARMER
 TEMPERATURES AND LOWER HUMIDITIES THROUGH WEDNESDAY. LOCALLY POOR
 HUMIDITIES RECOVERIES ARE EXPECTED THROUGH THURSDAY MORNING. LOCAL
 GUSTY NORTHEASTERLY WINDS ARE EXPECTED THROUGH FAVORED CANYONS AND
 PASSES IN THE MORNING HOURS. A COUPLE SHORTWAVES MOVE THROUGH THE
 PACIFIC NORTHWEST DURING THE LATER PART OF THE WEEK BRINGING A
 LITTLE COOLER TEMPERATURES. RIDGE OF HIGH PRESSURE BUILDS BACK
 OVER THE WEEKEND WITH WARMER TEMPERATURES.

EASTERN PORTION OF SHASTA/TRINITY NF-
 330 PM PDT MON SEP 22 2008

20-FOOT WINDS.......
     VALLEYS/LWR SLOPES...NORTH WINDS 4 TO 9 MPH SHIFTING TO THE
                          SOUTH IN THE AFTERNOON. LOCAL GUSTS UP TO
                          20 MPH.
     RIDGES/UPR SLOPES....NORTHEAST WINDS 6 TO 12 MPH WITH GUSTS UP   
                          TO 28 MPH SHIFTING TO THE SOUTH 5 TO 10 MPH
                          IN THE AFTERNOON.

I try and keep track of the weather and take advantage of it when possible.  The down side to many of a California hunting season is that it will be hot and dry.  When a storm hits it is time to be out there.  Some years the storm does not hit until the season has passed.

It has been an extra ordinary busy summer for me, I hope to get out and check a couple of rifles tomorrow.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Freezer

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2008, 07:56:41 AM »
    I try to ambush the deer as they transition.  I like to still hunt but won't try it till we get some rain and the woods quiet down.   There's no way to sneak up on a deer in these dry conditions.  The deer are coming out of a ravine near the top of the ridge.  I get there at about 4:30 or 5:00 then sit down in cover and wait for them to come out.  I saw three herds come in and out of that ravine that morning.  The buck I shot had a big racked buck with him but I couldn't get a shot at him.  The best advise I can give is look for funnels and and beds near the top of the ridge and wait.  I never walk down the ridges and ravines, I move laterally and try to stay above their beds.
    Other deer I've seen go to the dry lake bed to eat the new green shoots.  The buck come out at the very last light.  If there's a stream bed or water with green shoots near it this is a great food source.  Like many animals I find their food, bed, water, and comfort zones.  A comfort zone is were they move to as the weather changes.  At this time of year that means shade and breeze on the northern slope as the southern slope warms up.  In this case they come from above me as they heard for their day beds.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2008, 10:44:37 AM »
  I always loved hunting coatal blk. tails, and i've harvested lots and lots of them for my freezer...  I mostly hunted them in the costal rain forests...



  This was probably the biggest buck i shot...



  Once i learned there habits, i found them easier to get than white tails...  Mostly i liked to get on a big track, and track it untill i got a shot, other times i'd ambush them when they were feeding...  Really quite easy, once you learn how...

  DM

Offline kernman

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2008, 03:55:04 PM »
Thank you for adding your contributions, Siskiyou, Drilling Man, Smokepolehall, and Lewdogg21. This is a great thread. I hope it lasts for awhile.

Your stories show that many different tactics can work under the right conditions.

I would like you all to comment, if you can, about a hunt strategy I am considering. Are there any obvious things I might have overlooked? Or could you add something?

On opening day hunters invade this particular plateau, and all the deer bedded on the south slope flee downhill, where a small creek runs the length of a canyon about 500 feet below. This creek funnels out eventually to a valley, where deer often wait out the danger.

One ridgeline decends from the plateau towards the valley floor, and offers a good view of the creek that I mentioned. This ridge has a couple of saddles as well. The creek has a lot of open space, and fewer trees. The surrounding area is more heavily wooded, and visibility could be better. But its all I've got to work with.

I plan to hike halfway down the rigde, where I'll set up before opening morning, before the deer begin moving downhill. I plan to glass, and spot and stock if possible. Or wait for a shot close enough, possibly on one of the saddles.

Wind direction is probably not as important where I hunt, as there is a campground nearby, and deer are more used to smelling people. (I worry though, they they will take notice when they smell human scent in a more remote place, such as the ridge, where humans seldom go).

Hot air rises in the morning, and descends in the evening, that's true, and under normal conditions this is sound trategy. But mountain air currents are changeable, as you know, so there never any guarantee.

What do you think? Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Offline Freezer

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2008, 06:08:00 PM »
    These deer are sneaky, they don't like to run like Mulies.  They will dart away into the brush then sneak their way around you.  I've never seen a blacktail run up hill but they will circle you.  When spooked they run down into the brush and walk back up hill slowly.  That was probably the down fall o the 3x3 I harvested.  Other hunters went down both sides of the ravine I was sitting above.  He and his herd eluded them then circled back.  They didn't plan for me sitting half way between their bed and the ravine above their trail.
    I do my best not to walk on their trails or disturb their beds.  At best you have a 1 in 4 chance of seeing a blacktail on the same trail unless you've discovered his sanctuary.  If you find it get out of there as fast as you can and figure his route into it than ambush him.  As I said before the woods are too crunchy to be walking around.  If your going to still hunt don't move more than 100 Yards per hour. 
    One trick I've learned is to carry a squirrel call.  If I make a wrong move I use the squirrel call to cover my mistake.  Those darn squirrels can make all the noise they want but if I break a twig everything is looking at me.
    Scent matters!  Don't break a sweat going up the hill!  Deer (and other critters) don't know the human scent.  They only know you smell different and that sets off their alarm.  I use scent free soaps and deodorants.  I also use bay leaf and bay tea to cover my scent.  As I still hunt I will move from tree to tree and bush to bush to mask my out line.  Rember this is their living room, if someone moves your chair or puts a new picture in it you'll notice it, so will they.  Do everything you can to blend in.
    The guys in deer camp used to call me Elmer Fud till I kill two deer within two minutes at 150 yards and laid them down back to back.  I don't know everything about blacktail and that's why I started this post.  According to Jim Zumbo (famous hunting writer) the coastal blacktail is the hardest deer to hunt in the world.
    The terrain they live in is varied from plains desert to rain forest but their habits are similar,  Get the book I suggested it helped me a lot.

Offline Freezer

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2008, 02:44:46 AM »
Well, deer 100 Freezer one ???  I don't know where all the bucks are!  The deer that were coming to the lake bed stopped because of all the traffic down there ( hunters in trucks and dirt bikers).  I saw a lot of doe but no bucks.  One day I saw 31 doe and two spikes.  I saw at least 8 doe a day and usually 15-20.  The rut isn't here yet and the bucks don't seem to be hanging with the doe.  Maybe the full moon has something to do with it?  I' be up there again in two weeks for the close maybe I'll fill that second tag yet ::)

Offline kernman

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Re: Lets talk about Coastal Blacktail!
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2008, 02:54:50 AM »
Freezer,

I completely agree that blacktail will generally go downhill, then sneak back up.

But I also think its where you happen to see them. If there is no where to go but up, they will go up. At least where I live.

I totally agree about not disturbing their beds, or their secret trails. When you do, you are only educating them to the fact that they are not as safe as they believe.

What is the name of that book again? I can't find it here in the thread.

Drilling Man,

can you explain about getting on a big buck track and following it? I have found that around here they move around so much I could be following them for days and still not see them.

But it makes sense to follow them since they are so difficult to pattern, at least where I live.