Author Topic: 357 leaving one blind and deaf??? (Read 3545 times)

Lee Robinson · « **on:** August 24, 2008, 08:40:28 AM »

If I was to ever need to use the 357 in a home or a car...I fear it would really damage my ears.

If I was to use one at night, I fear the muzzle blast would leave my eyes temporarily blinded as my pupils readjusted.

On that note, I am curious as to what loads you use for self defense in the 357. Do you like the 38? 38 + P? or do you have a 357 load that works well for you without too much noise should you fire it without hearing protection.

I was wondering if a slower burning powder might help on the noise (although it might be worse on the eyes). Comments?

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2008, 03:38:31 PM »

Well, you are probably right about the ear damage and night blindness, but if you had to use it, why would you care? I would trade ear damage for saving my life any day! Even a .22 will sound like a cannon in a confined space like a car.

BUSHMASTER1 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 25, 2008, 11:10:45 AM »

If you're close enough, the bad guy will also be blinded, deafened and hopefully bleeding.

Draco's Daddy.

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #3 on:** August 26, 2008, 05:54:51 PM »

BUSHMASTER....LOL...I didn't know you posted here.

Why I bring up this topic some may ask...well, I bring this up for practical reasons...reasons that I didn't really consider until lately. For those that don't know, I have a wife and 2 kids. I don't want them to be deaf should I ever need to use the gun inside our home or vehicle to protect us (or should they need to use it).

Two, what if there are multiple targets or if the 1st shot doesn't stop the assalent. I would like to be able to see and hear what is going on rather than waiting to refocus and wait for my hearing and eye sight to come back.

The 38 and the 38 + P doesn't bother me. But that 357 is pretty darn loud for sure. I was a little surpised how loud it was. I could deal with it I am sure if I was outside, but imagining what it would sound like in my home or vehicle...wow...I suspect it would make a person go deaf in just a few rounds. I was wondering if a slow burning powder would be better (like 2400 or H110) or would it be worse? I image the flash would be worse, but I was thinking the "bang" might be easier and less cracking. I have shot some pretty stout 44 magnum loads and some heavy 45LC loads that didn't bother me recoil wise and I was and I have shot some pretty stout louds even in some light guns and I was surprised the 357's crack on the ears was more disturbing than what I would have expected (although I was warned about it). The flash perhaps may be of some concern but I figure ear safety may be a bigger concern given the recovery time for sight being pretty quick.

BTW, I had a student a few years ago that was deaf because when he was 8 years old someone shot a round too close to him without him having ear protection on. Now, of course no one here would condone shooting without ear protection I know...but in a defense situation just like we can't say...let me go get my gun, we also can't say let me go get my ear plugs. My thoughts are motivated on two folds...family protection AND family safety.

BullyDawg19 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 27, 2008, 12:18:09 AM »

i unfortunately can relate to this very issue. as a young man i decided to shoot my model S&W 65-2 from inside my house out a window and i can tell you in absolute terms i wont ever do that again. it was as if someone turned a switch off. no ringing or anything. can you say instant deafness for about 20 minutes. anybody who loads there 357 with full power 125 or 158's is looking for trouble. i would suggest some 158 SJHP 38's for inside work. ive shot them inside and had no ringing at all - not that i would recommend doing it.

S.S. · « **Reply #5 on:** August 31, 2008, 03:39:28 PM »

yes, both flash blinded and deaf. I have experienced this once with a 2.5 inch barrel .357.
It is the same principle as a flash bang grenade and is just as disorienting. There are low flash powders to solve this problem. We used to have 12 ga. buck rounds with no flash and hardly no boom.
they had some sort of balloon in the case that contained the blast. They were designed for use on ships
in confined areas. Not related to the original question but they were pretty cool none the less.

Old Griz · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2008, 07:02:47 PM »

My story is quite different. Thank goodness I only had to fire one shot, and afterwords I was surprised that I didn't notice the "blinding" muzzle flash, nor were my ears ringing. I think I was loaded with Remington Golden Sabers at the time. It was in a home, and not a car.

bilmac · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2008, 02:57:31 AM »

I've shot the 357 inside and I wasn't disabled for 20 minutes. Most people who have had to use their guns in a life or death situation say that the whole world shrinks down to the bad guy and his gun. They don't hear their own gun, most don't remember how many shots they fired.

While I have never been in that situation I have been in lots of very realistic training situations where I got into that same mode. My gun was just an extension of my arm. I was able to deliver several hits on the bad guy while running and diving, or wrestling with a second guy.

If your defending your home at across the room ranges you'll be a rare man indeed if you ever see your sights or notice how loud your gun is.

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #8 on:** September 01, 2008, 03:34:36 AM »

I understand that when something happens one doesn't notice the sound. I do. It is like adrenaline kicks in. However, just as one my not notice the sound one may also not notice getting cut in a fight WHILE the fight is going on. Then afterwards, after the adrenaline is gone and things settle back down...even though they didn't notice the cut/sound when it happened the damage could still be there. That is what I was thinking about. I think the flash is too quick to really be a concern, but I included it in the discussion anyway.

So...what I think I am going to do is just pick a middle ground...something like a "38 + P" or a "38 +P + P." I figure that is a good compromise.

Cayoot · « **Reply #9 on:** September 01, 2008, 05:32:35 AM »

While I've never been in the situation, I have hunted plenty. I've shot .35 Rem pistols and Rifles as well as .30-06 rifles while hunting. I have never noticed my ears ringing after I calm down from the shot.

I'm thinking that when the adrenalin gets pumping hard, that the interior pressure in the ears builds up to a point where the eardrums can withstand alot more abuse without being damaged.

If I get that much adrenalin rush from hunting, I'm willing to bet I will get at least that much "ear protection" when a life and death situation occurs.

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #10 on:** September 01, 2008, 06:43:03 AM »

I found buffalo bore to make some interesting ammo for this situation. Most are around 1100-1200 fps with a short "snub" nose barrel...which is what I carry. SP101.

I haven't had problems with 30-06 when hunting either, but I thought about this because a riffle is a long barrel and is only shot outdoors...and IMO that changes things considerably.

Savage · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2008, 01:44:32 AM »

Huh, what, where are you Martha?

Savage

Dee · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2008, 02:25:38 AM »

Quote from: Lee Robinson on August 24, 2008, 08:40:28 AM

If I was to ever need to use the 357 in a home or a car...I fear it would really damage my ears.

If I was to use one at night, I fear the muzzle blast would leave my eyes temporarily blinded as my pupils readjusted.

On that note, I am curious as to what loads you use for self defense in the 357. Do you like the 38? 38 + P? or do you have a 357 load that works well for you without too much noise should you fire it without hearing protection.

I was wondering if a slower burning powder might help on the noise (although it might be worse on the eyes). Comments?

To say that you might get ear damage is a fact. HOWEVER, Lee, I HAVE used a 357 magnum for self-defense AT NIGHT. Does 2:30AM qualify? In fact the fight ensued for approximately 13 minutes according to dispatch logs, in 1978, and I reloaded once, with only two live rounds remaining in the cylinder, when the fight ended. I was using a 4" Model 28 Smith, shooting 125 grain hollow points that were HOT, to say the least, and experienced no problems in vision during the altercation. I did however, experience tunnel vision, and muffled ears, which is caused by adrenaline. Recoil was not even perceived at the time. The muzzle flash theroy reads real well in gun magazines with the writer haveing no experience in such a predicament, but on two occasions "I have been there", and I was too busy to notice. If you like the 357 mag (and I still do), it is with a 125 grain jacketed hollow point, still the best one shot stopper in law enforcement. And NO, the hot 9mm refered to as the 357sig, in a necked down 40 caliber casing is NOT THE SAME.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #13 on:** September 03, 2008, 05:27:56 AM »

Dee

I agree with you 200 % and it is funny in those pucker situations just how mother nature closes your ears and I never did find night blindness to be a problem. I years ago, had my own situation on the street when a perp had stepped out from between two parked cars with a shotgun. I survived, and did not go blind from the flash of the 125-gr JHP load I was carrying in a S&W 586. I did not need to fire a second round, and I will end the story there.

Dee · « **Reply #14 on:** September 04, 2008, 03:04:00 AM »

My point in my post was that I had fired eight rounds, and had no ill effects of muzzle flash. I was dealing with a baby blue 1975 Chevy Malibu as his sanctuary, and things were constantly changing. There were no fatalities in the exchange, and that was a good thing.

canon6 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 05, 2008, 03:17:44 PM »

Like Dee, I had the misfortune to have to fire a 357( 4 inch S&W model 28) in the basement of a residence.Two rounds fired , 125 gr JHP, and no major damage to me.
I was able to see and hear just fine, my ears did ring for a couple of hours,however. Doug

45-70.gov · « **Reply #16 on:** September 10, 2008, 12:31:22 PM »

i carry a hammerless smith 357 mag...5 shot 2 inch hand held flash bang grenade any one got any suggested loads the may increse the concussion and flash.....if some one is in my car i can close my eyes and hold one ear i wont miss i have practiced this TOO much and even if i miss i may set him on fire deafen and blind him he will not see it coming at the very least [ they talk about how intimidating racking a pump shotgun is] he will slide out of my truck in his own feces tim just my speculation i am no expert other then years of playing

jeep08ham · « **Reply #17 on:** September 13, 2008, 06:02:09 PM »

Many years ago, I was flagged down by a fellow on the left side of the road. I was driving a conventional Peterbilt truck at the time with no sleeper. As the person came accross the road from my left, I happened to look in the right mirror and a fellow was sneaking up on the right side of the truck with a pistol out. I grabbed a Ruger 44 Mag, and fired one round thru the door on the passengers side. You should have seen those to scoot back to the weeds. I had a severe case of ringing in the ears!!! When I got to the nearest town, they went looking for the two and both were found and were excon's with warrents for their arrest. Glad I had something even though it was a bit large for that small cab.

hemiram · « **Reply #18 on:** October 04, 2008, 08:46:32 PM »

I had two morons with aluminum baseball bats come after me after I dared honk my horn when they sat almost all the way through a green light. I had my Dan Wesson Model 15 loaded with factory 125gr JHP cartridges with me, and when the first one got to my car and cocked the bat back. I made sure he saw my gun pointed at him. As soon as he did, he yelled and both of them jumped back into their car, and took off. All the while it was happening, I was thinking, "How deaf am I going to be if I fire this thing?". It would have ended right there, but the morons called the police, who claimed I "Waved a huge gun" at them for "no reason at all". The cops came to my house, and after they said it was my word against theirs, I just said, "So how come I know there's a blue and orange baseball bat inside the car?", assuming correctly that they wouldn't toss what appeared to be new bats. After they signed their reports, they got cuffed for filing a false police report. The cops loved it.

bilmac · « **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2008, 04:33:11 AM »

You know as to muzzle flash being blinding, back before all the nice night sights we have today, I was having a lot of trouble with night qualification. I finally figured out that my muzzle flash would give me a glimpse of my sights. I was shooting 38s and this is no way to shoot, but it was a crutch until I got my gun properly outfitted.

Dee · « **Reply #20 on:** October 05, 2008, 01:14:55 PM »

LOL! I don't think night sights had even been invented in 1977, but I taught instinct shooting, knowing that what ever your looking at is where you'll hit if you practice. In the two shoots I was involved in, I have no recollection of even seeing my revolver, or pistol either time, yet the rounds went where I wanted them.
As to a question asked by someone else, regarding the best round to carry in 357 magnum. I prefer the 125 grain jacketed hollow point. It has the right amount of penetration and if all goes well the hollow point might even work. But if it doesn't the round will be destructive just the same.
For a small carry, I tote a Ruger de-spured 5 shot 357 mag.

Airsporter · « **Reply #21 on:** November 22, 2008, 11:42:46 PM »

At different times, I have been inside rooms when a .38 special (158 lhp), 45acp (230 ball), and .357 (125 jhp) were discharged. One (the .38) was when a guy had an AD inside a gunshop. To my recollection, only the 4" .357 was memorable.

Victor3 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2008, 08:45:15 PM »

Some things I learned while designing sound-deadening environments...

Part of the 'loudness' of any sound we hear is influenced by the distance the source of the sound is from anything that will bounce/absorb sound, and where we are located in relation to them.

A large room with a couch, curtains and carpet will of course be kinder to the ears than a small bare concrete bunker.

Years ago I was between two vertical rock canyon walls about 20' apart and 50' high and fired one shot from my 4" .357 with 125gr JHP. Never again if I can help it; I think it was the loudest single thing I've heard in my life (I've fired 1000's of rounds from all kinds of guns without hearing protection). I fired the same gun/ammo in other settings and it wasn't too bad.

Mohawk · « **Reply #23 on:** November 27, 2008, 11:31:22 AM »

Dee and I rarely agree on anything but in regards to this topic he is right. Having fired a .357 Mag in close quarters without ear protection you won't hear or see a thing. Adrenalin will block it out. Your concentration will be on your target, or should be. I have ruptured my right eardrum before, and the worst pain I have ever felt, but that was with a .308 rifle. But even then if my life was at stake it is of no consequence. Ear drums heal. And I also agree, the .357 Sig is not a .357 Mag. Something about the two don't add up even though they are close on paper. The .357 Mag is a natural performer. My opinion on that is that a revolver load can load half or two thirds of the jacketed bullet with swaged lead, a .357 Sig load you can't, they are all jacketed. That soft swaged lead at 1400+fps is a bad boy.

Sharps-Nut · « **Reply #24 on:** December 10, 2008, 05:47:53 AM »

All I got to say is good education going on hear from some folk who have appearantly been there done that. Thank you for sharing. SN

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** December 10, 2008, 07:28:09 AM »

Dee good points , may i add - get out at night and shoot ! ammo today is different some has had the flash reduced a small amount compared to back in the day. Waiting for a need to arise is not the time to learn what you will experince for the first time .
I carry 38+P SWHP lead in my airweight and either 110 or 125 gr. JHP im my SP-101.
Got a deal on Winchester 110 jhp ammo . The only reason !

Mohawk · « **Reply #26 on:** December 10, 2008, 08:19:07 PM »

Hey Shootall. If you like the .38 110gr load try the Remingtion 110gr (standard pressure) SJHP. Never used the Win version but the Remington load expands very well and penetration is pretty decend on soft targets since the fps is kept down to about 950-975 in a 4". The bullet "pancakes" but still gets pretty deep. And the recoil is nothing. They can be a little pricey, $40 or so for a box of 50.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #27 on:** December 12, 2008, 05:30:29 AM »

the 110gr load was in a 357 , $9.00 a box of 50 . WISH I COULD GET THEM TODAY AT THAT PRICE !
In my 38 -2" bbl i use 158 lead swhp ,

Dee · « **Reply #28 on:** December 12, 2008, 10:08:38 AM »

SHOOTALL, that last one was an FBI issue load all the way into the late 70s.

Mohawk · « **Reply #29 on:** December 12, 2008, 10:48:28 AM »

I loved the FBI issue load (Remington) version. Quite a cottontail killer!!! Remington is known for softer lead, and I believe it. I switched to the 110gr SJHP version due to the availability at the time, plus one deer at the time with that load. Basic broadside shot, in the left behind the shoulder, and lodges against the outgoing ribcage. But the FBI design is a great bullet for a .38, not a .357 mag by no means, but it will protect yourself at the bus stop.....