Shooting sport

[Ruskin]

 I was talking with a rimfire rifle shooter yesterday.  He related how the cost of ammo has gone up, and shooters are selling high end guns and leaving the sport.  I asked if the .22 crowd has looked at the .17.  He replied they have not.  The .22 rifle or pistol competiton shooter still hold with tradition.  The cost to start up is probably holding many back while they sell out because it is getting difficult and expensive to shoot.

I have often thought that our youth and budget minded shooters will discard their firearms and quit shooting. 

Introducing a youth to shooting, especially shotgun, requires an inexpensive and low recoil round.  The .410 would met this; however, the cost of ammo is higher than a 20 guage.  If the .410 was affordable, the industry would see sales of shotguns and ammo go up.  The .410 has become a specialty purchase.  It should be a cheap intro round.

The .17 which was recently intorduced is priced out of the market.  I would buy another firearm if the cost to shoot was reasonable not the $9.00+ I see the ammo selling for.  If the cost was kept down firearms and ammo would probably pick up.  I would consider llooking into a purchase of the .17.

Volume sales would offset the cost of development.

To keep the shooting sports alive some changes need to be made.

[Beers]

While the .410 is great fun, and I would love to see cheaper .410 shells on the shelf at the shops... IMO it is not a great "intro" round, it's not even a good "intro" round. Even if they were a nickel a piece. There's plenty of reasons why the .410 is a "specialty purchase". I doubt lower shotgun prices would sell any more .410's than are selling now.

Introducing people to competitive shooting with the most challenging shotgun round available is likely to discourage them a bit more than current ammo prices.

[Ruskin]

I was referring to the small stature of a youth.  They have trouble holding a larger shotgun and absorbing the recoil.  Kinda like introducing bream fishing to a child who later becomes a bass fisher.

[beemanbeme]

I agree with Beers. I don't think you are doing a kid a favor by asking him to start out using a shotgun that even very good shotgun shooters have trouble mastering.  I began both my sons with a boys model 20 gauge using low brass shells and they did very well.  The fit of the stock and a decent recoil pad plays a good part in the perceived kick.

[crustaceous]

I bought a Savage 17 HRM when they first came out. It was fun to shoot (those nice 100 yd groups made me feel like a real sniper) and I even put a nice walnut thumbhole stock on it. I rarely shoot it any more because of the price of ammo. 22s are my favorite and the best for shooting with the kids so I'll keep buying the ammo. I've never bought the expensive 22 ammo or an Annie and have been happy competing within those limitations. Luckily, our club has weekly 22 shoots and most of us shoot regular guns and cheap ammo.
As for getting kids interested in shooting, we have an unbelievable 4-H youth shooting program here.  The kids have nice bb, pellet guns, 22s, shot guns, black powder. and compound bows for to use. On top of that the instructors are really great.  Last year we went to the state wide 4-H shooting sports camporee and I was impressed with the programs other clubs have.
It might be time to emphasize the fun of shooting and worry less about the equipment.  Matches may have to have categories based on ammo price or include handicaps.

[Old Syko]

It might be time to emphasize the fun of shooting and worry less about the equipment.

It is quite refreshing to hear that someone other than myself understands this.  Too often the emphasis is put so much on the equipment used that it comes down to the fact that, the man with the most $$$ wins even though he lacks ability.

A true marksman is the individual who consistently places his rounds on target even with inferior equipment.

[jgalar]

Its too bad 28 gauge shot shells aren't inexpensive - it would make a very good shotgun for young'ns

[Ruskin]

The 28 guage then proves my point.  Not the handicap of the .410 but expensive.

[Graybeard]

The .410 is not a gun for a beginner it is more of an expert's gun. I shoot it at skeet in fact it and the 28 are all I shoot but it's not for a new shooter. The 28 on the other hand does make an excellent beginner's gun but like the .410 is cost prohibitive for many. There is no valid reason the .410 should cost as much as the 28 gauge. They claim the 12 and 20 are cheaper due to higher sales volume and economy of scale. But they probably sell twice or more as many .410 as 28 gauge ammo perhaps far more than double as much yet prices are the same and the 28 uses an additional 50% more shot than does the .410.

They are merely charging what the market will bear not what they should to make a similar percentage profit across the product lines.

[torpedoman]

I can reload 223 centerfire cheaper than i can shoot the 17hmr  and 22 is approaching the break even  point yesterday priced the bulk ammo at sportsman w/h and it was over 22 dollars thats over 5 cents a round after taxes good ammo in over 10 cents a round. looks like rimfire is on the way out at my house.

[Beers]

Good lord! I'd shop somewhere else, $22 bucks for a brick of bulk .22 ammo is just shy of twice what I'm paying here!

Fortunately for me, bulk ammo is the "good ammo" out of my .22. 

[powderman]

It's true that a 410 is an experts gun, but I highly recommend it to beginners. I started hunting with a sgl bbl 410 in the 1st grade. Didn't take long to master it cause it was all I had or knew, my Dad used a dbl bbl 410, I have it now. I knew when I pulled that trigger that I only had ONE shot, and I had to make it good, the best thing about a sgl bbl.  I started reloading the 410 in the 6th grade, still do. Anybody that can master the 410 will be a shoe in with a larger shotgun in later life. I've always loaded 3/4 oz of shot, still use 2400 pwdr. POWDERMAN. 

[Sourdough]

My Dad started me with a .410 at the age of 12, one of the worst shooting experiences I ever had.  Dad had gotten 3" field loads, plus the shotgun was a little too long for me then.  Recoil was too high, and I never was able to hit anything with it.  I refused to shoot a shotgun for many years after that.  I could do a lot better shooting squirrels and rabbits with a .22RF.  Even shot Grouse, Quail, and two Pheasent with a .22RF.  I hated shotguns because of that .410 till I was in my 30s.  I started shooting Skeet with a 12ga.  Started my son at the age of 8 with a 20ga.  Now at 19 he loves shooting skeet and trap.  And the 20ga is his favorite.  I teach shooting to kids, and one of the policies we have is no .410s.  We only use 20 and 28ga shotguns.

One day had a parent bring a .410 to a skeet class.  This was like the kids fourth class so they had already been shooting the clubs 20ga.  He demanded his son shoot his .410, that had a full length stock.  I invited him to shoot a round with us using his .410.  His son shot a youth 20ga, and outshot the father.  The kid was running about 50%, but Dad only shot two birds on station 1, by the  5th station he quite.  He never came back to any of his son's skeet lessons after that. 

[DakotaElkSlayer]

Its too bad 28 gauge shot shells aren't inexpensive - it would make a very good shotgun for young'ns

Pretty good for us older folks, too!

Jim