Handi or Bolt?

[wisconsinteacher]

Hello, I am new here and I understand this is Handi country, but I have a few questions.  I have 4 bolt action guns in 30-06, 22-250, 17HMR, and .22LR.  I am looking at getting a new gun.  I am just don't know if I go with a bolt or a H&R.  I am looking at .204, and when I talk to others, they say go with the bolt for better accuracy, faster reload, and easier to shoot off a bench.  I just what to hear from H&R users what the gun is like shooting off a bench.  Is it a pain to pick up and reload and then settle back in?  Is it able to shoot 250-300 yards like a bolt?  How much slower is the reload time compared to the bolt action rifle?  I am on a limited budget and want the best product for the money.  I just need advice as to which road to take.  Stay with the bolts that I know and trust, or try something new and get a single shot.  Lastly, I just want to point out, that my main goal for the gun it to target shoot and play with.  Thanks

[E Rex B]

I have a Handi 223.  To be honest with you, I wouldn't do it again.
Rex

[STUMPJMPR]

In .204 I would probably go with the bolt gun.... The Handi's are fairly accurate but more than likely it won't be as accurate as the bolt gun....Hope I didn't hurt you handi lovers feelings....

[coyotejoe]

As far as shooting from a bench, I find the handi rifle more convenient than a bolt. If you rest it on the bags just at the hinge pin, then when you release the latch it will open almost of its own weight. With a bolt gun there is the issue of capturing the ejected brass, much easier with a handi.
 As to speed of fire, who cares? That is just not an issue in a hunting rifle.
 As to accuracy, well some folks do seem to get fine accuracy from their handi rifles but I've owned a few and have never seen better than mediocre accuracy and have seen some that were very poor. I've been shooting my handis quite a bit just trying to find a good load and when I pull out my M-70 Winchester I have the sense of "what a pleasure to shoot a REAL rifle".

[Swampman]

Just curious as to why you would choose the .204 over the .223?  Also, if you have a .22-250 why do you want another varmit rifle?

I love NEF products, but I won't own a Handi in a rimless cartridge.

[PartsMan]

I can't seem to get my groups any smaller than this with my 223 handi.
Maybe if it had a bolt it would do better.
 

It is a little harder to do with breakover but the bragging rights are better.
Anybody can put a custom target Ar in a vise and shoot a tight group.
I can do it with a $200 single shot on a homemade sand bag.

[petemi]

I started out with lever guns as a kid.  Later went to bolts for "better accuracy", and later yet, in my retirement years, went to Handis.  Now, I've finally learned to shoot.  Read the FAQs, I don't think there is a Handi out there that can't be tuned to shoot one ragged hole targets.  Some do it out of the box, and others need tweaking.  In my limited experience, it seems the larger calibers are easier to dial in than the smaller.

[Fred M]

I have two custom Handies with re-bored barrels. Both were 223 Ultras they are now 257Roberts and and 6x47. The two 223"s were dogs. I never buy another Handi unless H&R smartens up their barrel making.

If you are used to a bolt gun go and get another one. I like single shot rifles including the H&R but you need to be handy to tune one they can be very frustrating. Also I am a accuracy fiend and very demanding when it comes to accuracy. If you want a good single shot that is easy to tune get a Ruger #1. But they can be easy ruined by incompetent gun butchers trying to improve accuracy.

[Singleshotsam]

I've found that in both bench shooting and on prarie dog hunts, that a single shot breakdown can be reloaded and back on target just as quick as a bolt action.  I've owned, semi's, bolt's, and single shots and i myself find to favor a SS over anything.  It all comes down to preference and what you feel is right for you.

[MTGlass]

There is a Synthetic .204 Ultra Varmint on consignment in a friends shop right now.  The owner got tired of the contortions required to get on target between shots, especially when prone and there were lots of gophers downrange.

[LaOtto222]

My most accurate guns are bolts. I have converted the center fire varmint ones to single shots and removed the ejectors and just pick out the cases. Is it faster that a Handi - NO. Why did I do it? I converted them, because I just like single shot rifles (one well placed bullet) and I did not like to remember to catch the empty every time I opened the bolt. Beside it slows me down so I do not heat up the barrel as fast. With that said I really do like Handi rifles. I have 2 frames with 3 factory fitted barrels each. I put factory laminated stocks on both and each barrel sports it own laminated fore end. Maybe it is my thing for single shot rifles, or the compact design, not sure. While my personal experience with Handis and accuracy has not been stellar, there have been some rifles on this forum that have demonstrated outstanding accuracy. I strive to get 1" at 100 yards for my bottle necked Handis and 1" at 50 yards for pistol cartridges, for my bolts I expect sub .5" accuracy at 100 yards. There have been some that open the box, clean the rifle inside and out, mount a scope, go to the bench and proceed to shoot .5" groups. I have not experienced this phenomenon. Some have to fuss with their rifles just to get them to shoot a decent group, let alone a real tight group. I do not find the Handi real easy to shoot off of a "bench" but it is not that distracting either. Over all I think the Handi shines as field gun, not as a bench gun because of it's simplicity and compact design. I think they have plenty of accuracy for big game hunting, just not real tight groups for shooting looong distance targets or distant PD's. My Handi's are not for sale and I will probably add to the small collection I have over time. I cannot wait to get my hands on a SS 45-70, but I am going to wait until Remington gets it together and starts churning them out. I have high hopes for them. I will add a SS 30-06 barrel soon afterwards. No matter your choice - Good Luck and Good Shooting to you.

[Graybeard]

Just curious as to why you would choose the .204 over the .223?  Also, if you have a .22-250 why do you want another varmit rifle?

I love NEF products, but I won't own a Handi in a rimless cartridge.

Unlike you not everyone thinks they need only one rifle and one cartridge. I have varmint rifles in .17 Fireball, .204 Ruger, .223 Remington, .22-250 Remington and looking at getting another in 6mm Remington as well. That's just the centerfire ones and doesn't take into consideration the rimfires.

[Swampman]

I just figured the .223 is a lot cheaper to shoot paper with, and every bit as good as the .22-250 and/or the .204 for hunting.

[wisconsinteacher]

As far as the 204 well I just want one.  I like the idea behind the single shot and I do enjoy tuning guns to make good groups.  I guess if I go with a Handi and don't like it, I could sell it and only be out a little on it.  I think I am going to try it and see what happens.  I just have to save up a little and get a scope for it.  I figure, I will never know unless I try one out.  Thanks for the great replys.

[Swampman]

Just wanting one is reason enough.  Your comment about being on a limited budget was the reason for my question.  Economics frequently effects my choice of caliber.

[ctaylor]

i have a 204 handi laminet stock heavy barrel and love it for a truck gun
it cost me 175 out the door slightly used i put a leupold 6x on it
it was a great deal to try the caliber why spend 3 or 4 times the money
for a gun your not sure you will like

[kevinsmith5]

I have a 45-70 Buffalo Classic, Pardner 12 GA, .22 Long Rifle (new to me), 20 GA Pardner and I'm waiting (for a long time) on a slug barrel and muzzle loader for the 12 Ga frame.  While a break action on the bench may be a little more difficult to shoot, in the field I can shoot faster than most people i know shoot semi-autos. Now I have been shooting break action single shoots since 1978 (age 7) and have put a LOT of rounds through them. With al ittle practice and planning you can shoot a single shot fast. Buttstock cartridge holders are very important. I have a belt pouch for the 45-70 and my mother in law is making me a wrist band for .22 ammo.  As far as accuracy in a .204 Handi I can't say as I've never had one. All my NEF guns are rimmed cartridges though, so I don't know if the extraction problems other folks have discussed on the rimless cases would be a problem.  what are you gonna hunt where rate of fire is important? For me it only matters with feral hogs, squirrels, and dove.

[quickdtoo]

Extraction problems are a non-issue considering all recent production(some starting in 2004 and pretty much all since 2006) centerfire rifles have mechanical extractors, ala the same as TC Encore. Even older ejectors can be "tuned" to prevent sticking brass which is the main complaint of rimless chamberings, mainly because they operate at higher pressures.

Tim

[hotburn76]

If you get a Handi 204 I would say you would do pretty good with it.  I like you did not want to spend a bunch of money and ended up spending 300 bucks on a ultra handi in 204.  I liked the gun and killed some ground hogs with it the first year.  The problem that I had was I started reloading and accuracy became a issue for me.  I could get less then one inch pretty consistently with factory and reloads.  I tried six different powders and five different bullets over the coarse of about six hundred loads.  a couple of times I did half inch but was not consistant with it.  One thing that drove me nuts about my handi was the pop opens.  I had a dry shelf, and still had to slam it shut every time to get to not pop open.  I hated slamming it shut with a nice scope on it.  The deal breaker for me was wanting to get a trigger job done.  I do not desire to mail my gun out and the only shop close by that I like and trust was not really interested in doing it.  He told me he could not be sure it would be right the first time and could take several attempts.  He admitted to his little experience with break opens, but he is well know and respected in my area.  SO with that I decided to buy a Savage 12, and most places you can find a them with blued barrels and synthetic stocks for less then 500, only 200 more then my Handi.  After only about 150 rounds my Savage has made sloppy holes.  So for killing a Hog or Dog, my Handi will do the job just fine, but for what I was after the Handi could not give it to me.  There is a long list of things in the facts that you can do to a Handi to help them.  I only did the latch shelf thing to help with pop opens.  The rest I did not do, I do not think a guy should have to do all that to get a gun to shoot IMO.  The only thing the savage has had done is a 25 dollar trigger job.  I would say my bolt gun loads faster then the handi since the handi I had to take off the rest and slam shut, compared to just cycling a bolt.  The 500 bucks bought me a heavy bull barrel also, a sporter barrel can be had for a little over 400 bucks.

Here is a pic of what my best Handi group did and the next one is my Savage, both at 100 yards.  The first pic shows the Handi can do well, I just became obsessed with wanting better, my fault, not Handi's.

 

[burntmuch]

Ive had more than a few.  handis, All of them more than accurate enough for hunting. When I started reloading, I would get frustrated when I would have two holes touching then 2 inches away Id have 2 more holes touching. With same point of aim.
Never knew if it was  my reloads or the way the gun was sitting on bag. Now thats my fault I know. I went with a remington 700 for a 7 mag, a 35 whelen, & a 223. I kept my NEF 45/70 a 357 max , 20 guage USH & 50 cal huntsman, & I love them.  The handis are a great way to try out a new caliber, I dont think Ive lost money on any of the ones I decided to let go, maybe a couple bucks here & there, But Ive made a couple bucks on a few too. , . If you decide to go with a handi, you ve got a built in tech support team right here. , Enjoy & take a kid shooting.  Jay

[PHATINJUN]

Partsman I bet if you was to be able to shoot faster you could tighten that group up some. Kurt

[Singleshotsam]

If I had to choose between calibers mentioned, I would pick a .204.  Decently economical (escpecially if reloading) and an outstanding performer on prarie dogs out to the 500 mark. 

[Sourdough]

I guess you could call me a gun collector, I own almost every type of rifle made.  Bolts, levers, semi-auto, pumps, and single shots.  I have Contenders, Encores, TCRs, and Handis.  When it comes time to go into the field I usually carry a Handi.  Why?  They are lighter, more rugged, more accurate, and I am more comfortable with them.

[PartsMan]

Partsman I bet if you was to be able to shoot faster you could tighten that group up some. Kurt

 
I just hope I can get 5 like that on a card for the postal match.
Usually have a flier on a 5 shot. Opens me up to like a 1/2" group.

[MISSEDSHOT]

One of the poster's original uses for the Handi was to "play" with.Economics was also a consideration.With NEF's price point,a bolt rifle of this price range sometimes won't cycle from the magazine anyway and we wind up tinkering to get it to pull a cartridge from the magazine or paying someone to do it or send it back, all end up costing more.Then we work on the trigger..A Handi in .204 is not a bad choice...When looking at it from the billfolds' perspective..Yes I'm talking about a Savage 200 being the main competitor.

[krod47nw]

You mentioned you are on a fixed budget.  You could buy the 204 handi and a 223 barrel for it for less than you would probably spend on a bolt.  Another option is put the extra $$ into the scope. 

Kevin

[krod47nw]

Partsman I bet if you was to be able to shoot faster you could tighten that group up some. Kurt

 
I just hope I can get 5 like that on a card for the postal match.
Usually have a flier on a 5 shot. Opens me up to like a 1/2" group.

A 1/2" flier.  Everybody needs a problem like that 

[Jimbo47]

I would take a group like that any day of the week, and I'm sure the critter I take down won't know one bit of difference!

[Singleshotsam]

Thats what amazes me about the handi's, I've owned had a CZ 550 target and Winchester Model 70 Coyote Lite that wouldn't print groups that good w/ quality factory ammo... They both held consistant 1" @ 100 yds which was fine, but both ran around the $550.00 mark w/o scope!

[mitchell]

ok let me just start out by saying that i don't even know how many handis i have loss count a long time ago, but i will also say when ever i need to thread a needle my handis stay home, i've never won a competition with a handi (besides the ones on here) . all my handis will shoot 1/2 moa every time i take them out , my 204 shoots in the .2's but all of my handis took work to get them that good. i'm a bolt gun fan for shooting off a bench or long range hunting. but for just an other day in the woods my handis get the call every time. i have three different handis that have shot groups in the .2's and better but if all you want is straight up freaking accuracy get a bolt gun, because you can put a lot more upgrades on them then you ever will a handi. small shot groups aren't cheap i have over $3000 in one of my custom guns but it shoots better then i can (really it does i can't seam to shoot a group under .1 but i know the gun can) but at the same time i have handis that shoot in the .2's that i only paid $200 for , so make your own decision , if your on a budget i would go for the handi if you just want a kick butt rifle build one.