Mary Rose cannon

[EL Caz 66]

DoubleD,  Just don't let her find out what she could get for it Julia's. You'll end up in black plastic garbage bag.
 No offense mate Who's Or whats Julia's ?

Ed

[Double D]

Julia's Auction

[thelionspaw]

I don't want to appear to be whipping a dead horse BUT I just found something interesting about the carriage that I am interested in building.

A handful of reproductions were made in Britain and circulated.  The original is thought to have been the work of an individual craftsman (more or less) who exercised considerable innovation in its points of assembly.  As for the reproductions, some were made of Oak and some of Elm.

Mine will be Yankee Sugar maple (a.k.a. Hard maple, Rock maple). I already have the thick wood that I need.  Monster stuff.  I may even buy a barrel somewhere in maybe beverage can size.  No piker piece, this. 

One was featured in the 1986 National Geographic Society Exhibit in Washington D.C. and is still in the U.S. Navy Museum there.  So sayeth the article.

Now how can I get a slew of detailed images?

Richard "The Crafty Craftsman" 

[thelionspaw]

Here it is at the U.S. Naval Museum, Washington, D.C.. Can anyone discern how the cheeks are fixed to the bed?  There is an odd piece of iron in the center and from the front image (previous post) there are two (02) wedged pins that are similar to the wedged pins securing the axle in the rear image (previous post). Perhaps the cheeks are mortised to the bed? And/or lag bolted from below?

Also the coin/quoin application is questionable.

Notice there are no points to secure tackle to run it up.  I got to thinking that the Mary Rose probably wasn't helped by this point of observation.  When the ship heeled, the shift in weight from cannons rolling to the low side of the decks, would have been disastrous.

rc

[Owen]

The next one is a bit bigger (20mm bore) .... but it is on the way, have to ream out the bore then make another breach and ill be happy

[Cannoneer]

   That 20mm barrel is looking better than good, Owen. I can't wait to see the carriage design you chose to mount it on.

[thelionspaw]

Owen,
Looking good!  What's the E.T.A.?  I'll be pacing in the waiting room.  I hope it's going to be a boy. 

Richard

[Owen]

picking up the reamer today and will get that done so i hope will have it finished in the next week

[Squire Robin]

There's a Mary Rose cannon in the Rotunda at Woolwich, I think they dredged it years before they raised what was left of the hull with all the goodies that contained. It's tied to an ancient looking hunk of black timber, turn left when you go in the door. I did wonder how they moved it, looks a lot better with wheels on 

[thelionspaw]

Squire;
I've never seen that Woolwich item published. Only the cannons commonly exampled.

BTW is the piece you are holding like the one I saw someone discharge from the shoulder in a video with their collar bone at risk?

This is from: Grasshoppers AND Butterflies by Caruana.

Richard "middle name Adrian"

[Squire Robin]

I've never seen that Woolwich item published.

It's odd but the enormous collection in the Rotunda doesn't seem to show anywhere. They have what may be the only surviving English Civil War gun carriage, it's an amazing contraption that rather drew my cameras attention so I didn't get a pic of the Mary Rose gun when I visited. I think someone dredged it with a grapple and they dumped it there for want of anywhere else to put it. I saw what looked like an Elizabethan bar trigger matchlock sitting in a rack, never seen it documented. They have what looks like an incredibly ancient bombard by the front door, but nobody seemed to know anything about it.

[thelionspaw]

Squire: It doesn't surprise me that treasures are not properly identified.
During the War for Independence/Revolution/Rebellion, a Pennsylvania blacksmith named William Demming, built two wrought iron hooped and staved cannon. The first at Middlesex, Pennsylvania and the second at Mount Holly Springs, Pennsylvania.  Historians on this side of the pond, had claimed that they were nowhere to be found. Actually, one of them is a war trophy from the Battle of Brandywine and is being preserved (it has been said) in the Tower of London.  How often do we read that curators "discover" something that has been in their collection for generations?

BTW I only just noticed the signature spot to click for your wall gun.  I clicked it and saw a 30 second pornography video.  I found the fact that it appeared, let alone the clip itself quite interesting; so I returned to GB and clicked a second time. There she was with the title, "Watch me spurt". My security program immediately notified me that there was a compromise and that they had corrected it.  I thought you might like to be made aware of it.

Interesting!  This was the very same day that an eMail from from Andrew MacGregor of LLoyds asked for my bank information because I had come into 147,000,000 million U.S. dollars.  How lucky can an old duffer like me be?  Two windfalls in the same day.

Richard "The Bewildered"

[Squire Robin]

I only just noticed the signature spot to click for your wall gun.  I clicked it and saw a 30 second pornography video. 

Not fair. All I get is the wallgun movie, please forward a copy of "Watch me spurt" post haste 

[dan610324]

to me also   

[thelionspaw]

It's history; gone!  Besides, the wall gun video is better and more interesting. It's something we NEVER see.

Wow!  What interest. Piggy, piggy guys. Santa's watching you. 

[Cannoneer]

There's a Mary Rose cannon in the Rotunda at Woolwich, I think they dredged it years before they raised what was left of the hull with all the goodies that contained. It's tied to an ancient looking hunk of black timber, turn left when you go in the door. I did wonder how they moved it, looks a lot better with wheels on 

Squire Robin.

   There were two British brothers by the names of Charles and John Deane and they were pioneers in the field of diving; in fact their credited with inventing the diving helmet.
Fishermen dropping their nets in an area of the Solent were getting their nets snagged on something on the bottom and the brothers were in that general area searching for another wreck (the Royal George a 108-gun ship-of-the-line that sank on the 28th of August 1782). The brothers decided to investigate and found that it was a timber sticking up out of the silt that was snagging the nets, that timber belonged to the hull of the Mary Rose but it wasn't until they discovered a bronze cannon that they realized the importance of their discovery. An inscription in Latin on the cannon read, "Henry the VIII, King of England, France and Ireland, Invincible Defender of the Faith, made in 1542, by Arcanus de Arcanis". The date of this discovery was June 16th 1836. They also later discovered and raised an iron cannon and some other artifacts but they abandoned their salvage effort in 1840 probably realizing that it was just too massive a task.
The cannon on display at Woolwich that you're describing might be a gun from the Deane brother's salvage attempts.

Richard "The Ogler" must lead a charmed life, I've clicked on your video a couple times and all I ever got to see was an eccentric Englishman firing what appears to be a super-sized scatter-gun.

[Bob Smith]

The Rotunda breechloader is indeed one of the Deane brothers' Mary Rose guns. The Rotunda also received a number of chambers and a couple of the bronze guns. Others raised at the time have ended up in the Armouries and at Greenwich. The Mary Rose Trust are working on the final report of the Ordnance and I hope it won't be too long till it sees the light of day; I am sure that will answer at least some of your questions.

One of the problems with the Rotunda collection is that is has been closed to the public for several years now. A few of the choicer items are now on display in the Firepower! Galleries in Woolwich Arsenal, but many, including the Mary Rose wrought-iron gun are still in the Rotunda. Adrian Caruana used its collections to illustrate his works and I have certainly published its guns, as has my wife, Ruth Brown. We used the collections to teach divers and museum curators about historic artillery a couple of years ago. We did this partly to make sure its important exhibits were better known.

Bob Smith

[dan610324]

me to   

[Squire Robin]

We used the collections to teach divers and museum curators about historic artillery a couple of years ago.

I did the diving course 

[Cannoneer]

   Thank you Mr. Smith; excellent information!

[Owen]

Brendan W who has just joined the crew here, is the person who has made the larger barrel for me thanks. My little lathe is way to small. We have made now a few interesting things together lol.

Ok the new pics of the finished barrel.

[Cannoneer]

   Nice! I like the placement of the rings. Did you cold blue it?

[Owen]

ok it has taken a while to get more work done but here is a start.

[thelionspaw]

Wow! He does it again. Give this cannon a Breechblock Man. 

[and7barton]

Thanks Boomer,
They help alot. The carriage is put together like a piece of machinery.  It looks like a knock-down-kit-built.  Possibly for ease of repair with replaceable parts?  Very little seems hard and fast. Some cotter pinning and mortise and tenon.  This project is going to take me into my 80s.  To be impressive and accent the thickness of the base (which can't be wussy), It should be 3 feet long; at least 2 feet.  I guess I should base the scale on a barrel I will never own but one that someone else might.

I told my daughter, "Look around you. This is your inheritance". She responded, "What inheritance?  I'm going to pile it on your chest and burn you like a Viking with it".  Where did I go wrong?

Somehow, this doesn't appear to be White Oak.  Adrian!  Any ideas?

rc

I'd like to think that you WILL get, or have made a suitable barrel. Personally, I've never begun work on a carriage until I have the actual barrel it will mount in my hands. I then base all my carriage dimensions upon the barrel's dimensions to get the scale exactly right. The first thing I measure is the distance that has to be between the two side cheeks, and that has to fit the barrel's requirements pretty accurately.

[thelionspaw]

I realize all of that but I am a sculptor, decoy carver and primarily a furniture designer/craftsman; so all I really care to do, is build a carriage. I will however, build it to the specifications of what I believe will be a reasonable tube in the market at present.  As for the future owners' sensibilities; be they his, hers or mine, I will refrain from carving any ducks or fish on it

Richard "The Flamboyant"

[BoomLover]

Hi, Guys, I'm just full of questions...in reply #52, picture #2, is a great drawing of the cannon, mounted on it's "carriage". Beautiful cannon and drawing, my question.. strapped down like it is, basically hortizontal, was there any way to elevate it? Or was there no need, due to it's purpose? Where was it used? On Shore? On Deck? Thanks, BoomLover

[thelionspaw]

See the quadrant (at least that's what I call it) sticking up out of the trail?  It has holes in it. You slide the stock up on it and pin it fast at the height you want. The wheeled 15th c. piece is one that I made and has the same mechanical function. Owen's has a wooden post that serves the same purpose as my curved iron one.

rc

[BoomLover]

Ah, I do see, and it makes perfect sense! I had the idea there was a wheel or wheels on the back, which didn' make any sense to me! The upright piece would be slotted at various intervals to adjust for height, right? Think I'll attempt to make one, that gave me some inspiration! Thanks, BoomLover

[thelionspaw]

Here. Look at this if you haven't surfed my old post.