Author Topic: accuracy issues  (Read 696 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline eodusa

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65
accuracy issues
« on: August 29, 2008, 01:43:26 PM »
Weird problem I am having.

I have a contender with a 10" 357 mag barrel.  A Nikon UCC 2.5-8X scope on it.

With the Magtech 158 gr stuff i have it sighted in  at 50 yds.  I shoot 10 rounds it consistently clover leafs with three fliers due to me.

I then switch to American Eagle stuff, 158 gr, approx same load.   And I am all over the place, about 3 inch low and 3 inch right, grouping is about 4-5 inches at 50 yds.

I have a hard time understanding this.

All were shot from a sandbag rest, target at 50 yds... ???


Offline Grumulkin

  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2028
    • http://www.orchardphoto.com
Re: accuracy issues
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2008, 02:41:02 PM »
It isn't hard to understand at all.  Give me any gun no matter how accurate and I can make a load that will shoot all over the place.  With a lot of guns the "sweet spot" comes in a range of maybe 1 to 1.5 grains of powder.  A little below this or a little above this, accuracy won't be as good and the point of impact will change.  What complicates things even further is the fact that the sweet spot is many times different for different guns shooting the same cartridge.

Offline blhof

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 738
Re: accuracy issues
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2008, 04:13:22 PM »
I have a DW 357max and it took me 4 years to find the right combo to get tight groups.  Many years ago I had a DW357mag and it did well with most ammo, but best with 158 cast.  The best I've got with the Max is with 200 LBT cast. I have 2 contender frames, one as a rifle and the other as a pistol and of course several barrels and I've played with the loads in all to get the best and then stick with what works.

Offline eodusa

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65
Re: accuracy issues
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2008, 05:26:13 PM »
Enlighten me more, I currently don't reload.

Do barrel harmonics come into play due to the charge variation?

I know the charge accuracy between rounds is important, and also the depth the bullet is seated.  I believe bench rest guys want the rifling to barely touch the bullet.

I am not looking for one hole groups, just good consistency between various off the shelf loads.  Perhaps this doesn't exist.

50 yds for the contender is not asking for too much...am i? ???

Offline Grumulkin

  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2028
    • http://www.orchardphoto.com
Re: accuracy issues
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2008, 12:19:28 AM »
Do barrel harmonics come into play due to the charge variation?

I believe harmonics play a role but there are other factors as well.  Powder burns differently at different pressures and the pressure obtained with identical cartridges in different guns can be quite different.  If the powder burn is inconsistent, accuracy will suffer.  Also, bullet rpm will change with different velocities and can affect bullet stability.  Then there is the barrel twist rate; if the twist in the barrel the load was worked up in is different than the barrel you're shooting, accuracy could be affected.

I know the charge accuracy between rounds is important, and also the depth the bullet is seated.  I believe bench rest guys want the rifling to barely touch the bullet.

Seating the bullet to almost touch the rifling compensates for things like inconsistent neck tension, a suboptimally aligned throat, etc.  If the barrel, throat and chamber are perfectly aligned and the neck tension is consistent, having the bullet almost touch the rifling is less important.  In the case of Barnes bullets, and I presume other copper bullets, you will probably get better accuracy with the bullet not almost touching the rifling.

I am not looking for one hole groups, just good consistency between various off the shelf loads.  Perhaps this doesn't exist.

Yes, I think you're asking too much.  Even with good handloads, it would be the exceptional gun that didn't have a decided preference for a certain bullet/powder charge combination.  Factory loads have to be a compromise between all the guns they will potentially be shot in.  Just be glad if you can find at least one factory load that works well.

50 yds for the contender is not asking for too much...am i? ???

In a scoped Contender handgun with good handloads and reasonable cartridge selection, I would expect to get no worse than 1 to 1.5 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards and some will do quite a bit better.  Some cartridges aren't designed for 100 yard shooting and won't do as well (for instance such things as 9mm Luger, 380 Auto, etc.).  I've never worked with a scoped 357 Magnum so don't know how it would do at 100 yards; I suspect it would do fine and there should be no problem with 50 yards.

Offline Hawkster

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: accuracy issues
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2008, 03:59:55 AM »

             I have a .357 mag in stainless for my contender. No matter what you do I can't get it to sight in. 25 to 50 yards it will make holes all over the paper. Tired factory loads and reloading still nothing that looks like group, more like a shotgun blast. Sure would like to slove the mystery of what is going on with it.

                           Ken

Offline blhof

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 738
Re: accuracy issues
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2008, 07:33:20 AM »
Get a slug kit from Veral at LBT and see if you have a smooth bore and what diameter it is.  I had a 357max barrel that was rough and I firelapped with the LBT kit and now it shoots tight groups; I also got an LBT mold, so I guess it's a combinationof the two.  Veral's book has a lot of ideas to get the best accuracy possible out of any gun.

Offline eodusa

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65
Re: accuracy issues
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2008, 06:32:45 AM »
Hawkster
Is yours a 10 inch barrel?

I wonder if the 14 inch will improve accuracy.



Offline Hawkster

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: accuracy issues
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2008, 04:56:55 PM »

                Yes, 10 inch. Wanted to use it for shooting steel. My 14 inch 44 mag barrel shoots dead on never a problem.

                               Ken