Author Topic: rifle scope advice. (Read 1551 times)

double tap · « **on:** July 31, 2003, 07:27:28 PM »

Howdy,

I've been visiting this forum for a little while, and it seems there are lots of folks here with more knowledge than I have about the current offerings in the rifle scope world. Also, I appreciate the fact that ya'll don't flame each other at every turn.

I'm looking for a scope to put on a new Savage 12bvss in .300wsm. I hunt primarily in SE Alaska, so rain and snow are often my constant companions in the woods. Also, daylight is not exactly plentiful later in the fall, and when the weather closes in it can seem like dusk all day long!

Unfortunately, I don't have much in the way of sporting goods stores locally, so I can't get any "hands on" experience with all the scopes I'm interested in.

I think I've narrowed my choices down to the Bushnell Elite 3200/4200 line (Rainguard!!!), Weaver Grand Slam, or Leupold Vari-X II. Problem is, nobody locally carries either the Weaver or Bushnell Elite scopes for me to play with. I've heard that the Bushnell's are a little thin in the eye-relief department, while the Leupold should have ample eye-relief. I am open to other options/recommendations, but don't have an unlimited budget. I'd like to limit my purchase to the $300 - $350 price range if possible.

If ya'll are willing, I'd sure like to hear any opinions (positive and negative) about the scopes I'm considering. Also, I'd like to hear about any experiences you have had with Rainguard and/or the Firefly reticle on the Bushnell scopes, as well as comparisons of the 3200 series with the 4200 series scopes (in other words, do the 4200 scopes justify the extra $$$?). Finally, I am considering a 50mm objective lens in the hope that they really do allow more light to reach the hunters eye. Am I off base here, or is there a noticeable difference?

I hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew here! Thanks for any info. you're willing to offer.

KN · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2003, 08:10:18 PM »

I have a 4200 Elite and absolutly love it. I also have an older Baush&Lomb 3000 that is an excellent scope. I believe it is the same as a 3200 except without the rain guard. In the $350 range your probably looking at a 3200 or equvilant. KN

TheOpticZone · « **Reply #2 on:** August 01, 2003, 01:19:46 AM »

In your situation, since you will be hunting in foul weather alot, I would recommend the Elite 4200. I am not familiar with SE Alaska and what type of terrain you will be hunting, but one come to mind, the Elite 4200 2.5-10x50. This is close to your budget of $350.00 and offers your 50mm objective. Yes, the 50mm is going to add more light, but I personally am not a big fan of them. I would prefer to have a 40mm, due to being able to use low rings. I think with high rings, you have the potential of knocking the scope and you lose a little accuracy, due to having to pull your head off the stock. If you are think a little about the 40mm, the Elite 4200 4-16x40 or 2.5-10x40 fit the bill again.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #3 on:** August 01, 2003, 03:49:02 AM »

Since you listed the Leupold VariX II I'll recommend a scope you didn't list and that is a Nikon Monarch 3x9. They are as bright and clear as a VariX III and are in your price range. ( at least at The Optic Zone) I bought my son one for Christmas last year. He had bought a Leupold VariX III 2x8 last year and he thinks the Nikon is as good if not better. The Nikon costs $150 less. If you are willing to move up in price $50 Jon at The Optic Zone has Nikon Gold 1.5x6 scopes for $399 and that is $100 less than everyone else. The Nikon Gold is a 30mm tube scopoe that is reported to be extremely bright, clear, and tough. It's a little heavy but all 30mm scopes are. Another $399 priced scope is a Zeiss Conquest 3x9. The Nikon Gold scopes and the Zeiss 3x9 have 4" of eye relief. I've found if you use the Butler Creek lens covers (the solid black ones, not see through models) and keep them closed until you are going to shoot, thay don't get fogged on the outside and the rain/snow is kept off the lens. I have B&L binos with the rain guard and it works. I stayed away from the Elites because of the eye relief. Dave

Zachary · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2003, 03:03:12 PM »

double tap,

First off, WELCOME ABOARD.

You asked about the Elites and the Firefly reticles. Well, I have both!

I have an Elite 3200 that has the Firefly reticle. Let me tell you - IT WORKS GREAT!! And Rainguard is something that I wonder how I ever lived without. The only thing I don't like about the Firefly is that the reticles are kinda thick. It really doesn't bother me that much, but I would prefer a thinner reticle.

If money is tight, then get the Elite 3200. If you can afford to spend a little bit more (which I recommend), then please note that the Firefly reticle is available in the Elite 4200 (the 2.5x-10x-40mm).

Don't worry about not having a local scope dealer. Trust us - you will LOVE the Elites - I own quite a few of them and love them much more than my Leupold Vari-X IIIs.

In addition, you don't need a local scope dealer because our website has the best sponsors around - theopticzone and SWFA. - I DON'T BUY MY SCOPES FROM ANYWHERE ELSE! Check their prices and I am certain that you (and your pocket book) wil be VERY HAPPY! :-D

Zachary

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** August 02, 2003, 01:47:30 PM »

Yes the rainguard coating works. In the wet environment of Alaska I'd think it would be very welcome.

Personally I'd forget the 50 mm objective. It is better in theory than in fact. Unless the rest of the scope is made to take advantage of the larger objective you are mostly being fooled into believing you are getting far more than you are. In conjunction with a 30 mm tube and larger internal optics then yes it can make a difference. But on a 1" tube it makes precious little difference. NOT nearly as much as better optics and coatings makes with a more standard 40-41mm objective. Plus it usually makes you mought the scope up so high it can interfere with natual pointing and quick shots.

The .300 magnum is not such a monster kicker that you should be worried about the eye relief of the Bushnell scopes vs. Leupolds really. Well not unless you have an exceptionally short stock for your arm length.

The scope I'd recommend to you is the one we have on my wife's Rem. Model 7 in 7-08. It is the Bushnell Elite 4200 1.5-6. Should be ideal for the use you'll be making of it. It will let you see in any light you have any business trying to shoot in for sure. We got it for her for a night hog hunt in TX. The quality of the optics and coatings combined with the objective size and power range make it ideally suited to your needs.

GB

tominboise · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2003, 03:06:53 PM »

I have two recommendations for you -

One is to try the Zeiss Conquest 3 X 9. At $399 delivered, it's hard to beat. I have one on a Sako .30-06 and it's nice. The other avenue is to go on ebay and buy my personal favorite scope - Leupold VariX - III 2.5 - 8X. You can usually pick them up for around $275, and they are a fine, fine scope for hunting. I know Graybeard has used them in the past and spoke favorably of them as well. I like them........

Tom

Cabin4 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2003, 01:37:30 AM »

I agree with GB's sentiments on the 50mm objective lens. Its hard to see how one can benifit from a 50mm lens with a 1inch tube. Not to mention that you will likly have to step up from low or med rings to high rings to accomidate the 50mm lens over a 40mm or less. This is not for certain, but something you should check out first prior to selecting the size objecive lens on the scope. IMHO, the lower you mount the scope to the bore the better when considering ease of properlly sighting in the scope to the bore and ease of range accuracy for the shooter in the field.

listed below are all the scopes I have handled/played with and or owned that are in your price range. They are all excellant scopes. I will say that the Bushnell 3200 for the money are one of the best in my opinion and yes the Raingaurd does in fact work. I have a 3200 and have experianced its Rainguard in action.

Leupold VX1 & 2
Burris Fullfield & Signiture series
Bushnell Elite 3200 & 4200 series
Nikon Buckmasters & Monarch series
Weaver Variable & Grandslam series
Swift also makes a very good and affordable line up of high quality scopes. Not like the swift of the old days.

If I were you, first I would decide what power scope you want, 3-9, 2-7, 1-6, whatever and then narrow it down to who makes that power set up in your price range. What are the typical and or average range of your shots ? The answer to this question should give us a clue as to what is the correct power scope. For a 300mag and the typical intended game animal for this cartridge, it would be hard to see why a 3-9, 2-10 or similar would be about as high a power you would ever need. On the low end, a 1-6ish would seem to be about as low as you would want to go. But not know the exact hunting situation(s) its hard to determine. Tell us more here and I'm sure you will get more input.

As a point of referance, when trying to decide what is the right objective lens size for the a particular scope, the average human eye can accept about 4.5 to 5.0 mm of light. So a scope with a 40mm lens set on 9 power will equate to 40mm divided by 9 power = 4.44mm of light. I guess thats why most all 3-9 power scopes have a 40mm lens. So that on the highest power setting they still give the shooter the most amount of light thier eye is capable of recieving. Of course quality of scope also plays a big role but again this is just a referance. A good example of this is I have Leupold VX2 in 1-4x20 on a brush gun. Many folks think I'm cheating myself out of good light in heavy timber. Not so at all. I get all the light my eye can accept.

Good luck and welcome.

freddogs · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2003, 03:45:36 PM »

I have 3 to 9 Leopolds in both 40 and 50 mm objectives. I haven't noticed one being brighter than the other. Both scopes work well without a problem in the many years I"ve had them. If I was in Alaska I might want to try the rainguard if thats a problem there.

double tap · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2003, 06:43:30 PM »

First of all, thanks for all of the replies and info.

It sounds like some more info. about the types of hunting I do and the way I intend to use the scope may be helpful. This scope will go on my "all around" rifle, which will be used here in Alaska for deer, goats, black bear, and, with any luck, sheep and caribou. When I go "back home" (Montana) I'll be going for elk, deer, and pronghorn.

I don't intend to take many shots over 200 yards. I've belly crawled through short grass and cactus to get close enough to shoot pronghorn within that range, but sometimes you just flat out run out of concealment, so I won't discount the occasional shot over 200 yards. With the terrain here (in Southeast Alaska, anyway) most of my shots should stay within that range.

I'm inclined to stay in the 3x9 variable power range because I don't feel I have a need for anything with higher magnification than that, and have never found myself wanting more than this in my past hunts.

I've gotta say, though, with rain four of the past five days, and more on the way, the idea of Rainguard seems to be more and more appealing! I have used the Butler Creek scope covers in the past, but up here everything seems to get wet no matter how hard you try and keep it dry.

Our local dealer does carry the Zeiss Conquest (nice glass!) but I have heard that Zeiss uses some plastic parts in the scope internals. Anybody know for sure???

Also, I've been told again to stay away from the Bushnell Elites due to their short eye relief. Any of you guys have an Elite 3200 or 4200 on a .300 mag or bigger? All I have heard is they don't suit a gun with "heavy recoil," which is a pretty subjective term. Some guys think a 30-06 kicks too hard, while others can shoot a .338 all day long.

Thanks again for all of the replies and info. It's been a big help.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2003, 12:54:45 AM »

It would be hard for me and I think many folks to believe hat the Bushnell 3200 and 4200 are not up to the recoil of a heavy mag. I have a simple Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40 mounted on a 30-06 for 4 years now and a thousand or so rounds without any issue whatsoever. The Trophy is an economical ($90) and much less than the 3200. I also have a Trophy in 1-4x33 slug gun scope mounted an a 12ga slug gun. No issues here either and my 12ga slug gun kicks a hole lot more than the 30-06.

In your case I like a 2.5-10x40 in the Bushnell Elite 4200 w/Rainguard. Hard to believe this would not fit the all around ticket(price range, weather, shooting range, FOV, clarity, light, recoil quality,ect.).

Bushnell has come a long way since the old days.

tominboise · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2003, 04:13:52 AM »

You might want to check out the Nikon Monarch. Midway has the 2-7X for $279.99, 3-9X for $299.99. They are pretty highly spoken of around here.

Zachary · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2003, 04:43:38 AM »

Forget about Midway - Jon at www.theopticzone.com has the Nikon Monarch 3x-9x for $255!! :eek:

As for the issue of eye relief on the 4200s - I have a few of them. In fact, I have one - a 4x-16x-50mm on my 7mm Ultra Mag. I was a little skeptical at first because this scope "only" has 3.6" of eye relief. Well, guess what? I shot it at the range several times and the scope never touched me - so I was surprised, especially when I was wearing shooting glasses - and that 7mm ULTRA kicks like a fast Cobra! Now I don't worry about that issue anymore.

I too like longer eye relief just for the added sense of security, but even on my 7Ultra 3.6" is plenty.

Also, keep this in mind - the Swarovski PH series, which all cost between $1,000 to $1,700 - all have just 3.15" of eye relief - and people use them on even the hardest kicking rifles.

Even though the Monarch is a good value, look at Jon's prices on the Elite 4200s - you really need the rainguard for where you are. Also, you should also talk to Chris at www.swfa.com. He also sells most of the major brands for less.

Zachary

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2003, 05:34:32 AM »

Unless you are a serious stock crawler or doing something else wrong 3" of eye relief should be adequate for all but the biggest of the big boomers used mostly in Africa or as back up guns on brown/grizzly bear hunts by guides.

If you get hit with a Bushnell Elite it wasn't because of the eye relief but because you aren't using proper shooting technique. No one but Leupold puts the priority on eye relief over most else that they do. The Bushnells are about like most all others on the market in that department.

GB

longwinters · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2003, 02:50:59 PM »

Remember, lots of scopes have good eye relief at 3x. But crank em up to 8x or 9x and see what happens. :eek: :eek:

long