Author Topic: How much Range time to hunt (Read 987 times)

sonof_perdition · « **on:** September 02, 2008, 05:09:35 AM »

Hello all. I hunt with a Handi 30-06 and a 12 gauge shotgun. I hope I'm not opening up Pandora's box here but I get a lot of flack from anti-single shot rifle people. So I am wondering what kind of statistics you single shot rifle hunters think I should be shooting for. i.e.
How much range time for practice? Once a week, hours a week, etc?
How tight of groups? 1"@ 100yrds, 1.5"@200yrds?
At what yardage should I be comfortable at? 100, 200, further?
And any other advice, tips or experience you might want to give.

Also, I have been thinking of getting a .444 marlin. Anyone have any experience with big game and that caliber?

I am a new hunter but know better than to take an iffy shot on an animal. I don't really care what others think but want my hunting buddies to be comfortable with what I want to hunt with. I'm not looking to have trophies or wall mounts. That being said; I am newer and do very well with goals. So please let me know some ideas about range time and proficiency so that I may know if I am up to par.

Thanks

fastbike · « **Reply #1 on:** September 02, 2008, 05:31:03 AM »

You need to hit where you aim at the ranges you think you will take the shot when hunting. You don't need MOA accuracy for deer sized targets, but you should be able to hit within say a palm's width of your aim. This is not about statistics, this is about your ability with your gun. It takes as much time as it takes.

Quote from: sonof_perdition on September 02, 2008, 05:09:35 AM

Hello all. I hunt with a Handi 30-06 and a 12 gauge shotgun. I hope I'm not opening up Pandora's box here but I get a lot of flack from anti-single shot rifle people. So I am wondering what kind of statistics you single shot rifle hunters think I should be shooting for. i.e.
How much range time for practice? Once a week, hours a week, etc?
How tight of groups? 1"@ 100yrds, 1.5"@200yrds?
At what yardage should I be comfortable at? 100, 200, further?
And any other advice, tips or experience you might want to give.

Also, I have been thinking of getting a .444 marlin. Anyone have any experience with big game and that caliber?

I am a new hunter but know better than to take an iffy shot on an animal. I don't really care what others think but want my hunting buddies to be comfortable with what I want to hunt with. I'm not looking to have trophies or wall mounts. That being said; I am newer and do very well with goals. So please let me know some ideas about range time and proficiency so that I may know if I am up to par.

Thanks

Tencubed · « **Reply #2 on:** September 02, 2008, 06:30:42 AM »

It never ceases to amuse me when some guy that thinks he has to have the latest super magnum with a two to sixty power scope and a magazine a foot long looks down at my choice in rifles. Over the years I've found it best to just ignore the obvious ignorance and let the results of the hunt speak for itself. Often it's fun to have an impromptu shooting session at the end of the season where the abilities of the various hunters will show up.

You ask how much range time to put in. Not easy to answer that but I would suggest you do more than shoot from a bench. Learn to shoot standing, sitting and prone. Way to many folks work hard at getting a load and rifle that will shoot the stinger off a bee at extreme range but never learn to shoot that fine piece of equipment as it will be used in the field. And don't be afraid to admit to your limitations. At my age I carry a shooting stick as I'm no longer able to hold a rifle really steady as in years past. I don't consider this a weakness but rather just dealing with reality and doing the best I can with what my present skill level allows.

The placement of the first shot on a game animal is critical. This first shot opportunity is the only time you have the real option of taking it or letting the animal go unscathed. Too many times an animal is hit badly the first round because the shooter believes the hype about his super guns ability to knock them down with just a minor hit. Many folks also depend on being able to use multiple hits to finish the animal off. Way better to make sure of the first round. The limited amount of time it takes to load a second round in a single shot rifle will make very little difference in the outcome if a second shot is needed. At least that has been my experience.

Guess what I'm saying is just practice till you feel comfortable with your rifle and shoot the loads you will be hunting with. You'll know how far you can reasonably take a shot and abide by this knowledge. Don't be concerned with what others say about using a single shot or the quality of the rifle. My Dad used to tell me to watch the man who has but a single rifle for, generally, he will shoot it well. He was right, and I also came to realize that the man that has the confidence to hunt with a single shot generally was an excellent hunter.

Mike

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #3 on:** September 02, 2008, 07:22:52 AM »

All you need to know is your weapon, and know your game. I can say honestly that you can be just as successful, if not more successful w/ your single shot, than the gun snobs are w/ their _____________. (fill in the blank)

You gun should be able to hit the vital area of whatever game it is you are hunting. A deer for example should be shot just behind the front shoulder in an area about the size of an 8" circle. I've seen a lot of guys practice shooting at pie tins at various distances from 50 yards out to 500. If they can hit the tin 5/5 times consistantly on a cold bore shot, at whatever distance, then that is how they figure out their distance limitations for deer hunting. We practice this in practical shooting posistions. I do best prone and sitting.

With your 30-06. you should (theoretically) be able to kill a deer out to 600 yards (maybe farther) if your shooting MOA and can accuratly judge windage, distance, and compensate for bullet drop. I can't say that I would try that myself, but it is possible.

Practice until you are able to consistantly hit at your chosen distance.

You should be comfortable shooting at whatever yardage you can consistantly hit at.

I have no experience w/ a 444 myself.

Like the others have stated, If you are comfortable w/ your handi, and are comfortable w/ your abilites, then don't worry about what others think of you.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 02, 2008, 08:17:18 AM »

Basically as a new hunter you need to be concerned about knowing exactly how capable you are with your rifle.

You need to shoot enough that you don't anticipate the shot and flinch just before the hammer falls, which can throw a shot off target.

The 06 is a great hunting rifle, but it does cause the problem of too much recoil, and flinching.

Control that with a proper firm grip on the stock, and keep your cheek tight to the stock, sqeezing and not jerking the trigger, and concentrate on the target and not on the recoil.

Shoot at 100 yards and concentrate on the mechanics of firing the rifle, and forget about range and trejectory.

Sight in at 100 yards about 2 1/2" high, and you will be right on target out to 200 if you do all the mechanics with your rifle correctly, and thus get comfortable shooting the gun.

As for how tight a group you need to for hunting purposes, you must be able to place all of your shots into a circle the size of a paper plate, and still be able to cover all the shots by placing your hand over them, and if you can do that, then you are ready to take a deer!

Once you are comfortable and build up you're confidence at 100 then you can try at 200 just for grins.

In reality most of your hunting shots will be within 125 to 50 yards range, and most will be inside of 80 yards, unless you are hunting on the high plains.

Make sure of your target, and never shoot at the animal if it is moving, facing directly at you are away from you, because those are low percentage shots that can only lead to trouble with a wounded animal.

Strive for a slightly quartering shot, or standing broadside shot, and learn to stop a deer if the deer is moving by either a sharp whistle, a loud grunt, (which I use) or even holler "Heh" and soon as the deer freezes take careful aim and fire.

The above only works on calm deer, and if the deer are spooked they will just run off faster, so just let them go, and never try a risky hail mary shot.

If you have a problem with recoil like most new hunters do, you can get some of the low recoil ammo made by Remington for that 06, and it will help you if you have that problem.

Hope this helps!

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #5 on:** September 02, 2008, 11:59:10 AM »

I was taught the pie tin method myself, And that its worthless to have a rifle that will shoot a 1" group at 100 if YOU can't hit a pie tin at any givin range from 50 to say 150 yards first time.

I really like the one hole group way of thinking,, Practice shooting at various ranges from diffrent shooting position (real world hunting positions) Take one shot, Hit your target (vitals/pie plate) You will put meat in the freezer if you can do that.

.30-06 and a 12 guage, I think you are well equipped to hunt anything walking in this country or any other on the face of this planet.

.444 Good rifle, I'd get a .45-70 thou alot more options with it and most people go goggle eyed when they first see one, Giggle factor is way up there with the old war horse.

Good luck and good hunting, shut the know it alls up by putting meat in the freezer.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 02, 2008, 12:10:47 PM »

The amount of range time - enough to feel comfortable with the loads and the gun...Enough so you have confidence you are going to hit what you are aiming at through the distance you are going to be shooting. It may depend on what you consider a comfortable range is. You will not need to spend as much range time if you limit yourself to 50 yards shots as you would if you are going to be taking them at 200 yards. Vary your distances at the range until you have the confidence to hit every single time at the distances you are going to be shooting at with the conditions you are going to shooting in the field. If you use a tree stand with a bar for a rest, then duplicate that as much as possible. If you are shooting off a bi-pod then do that at the range. Do not take a shot further than you feel comfortable with - period.

As far as single shots go - I think the discriminating hunter uses single shot rifles and shot guns. Know where the one shot is going and make the one shot you have count. I told my brother in law that I converted my varmint bolts to single shots and he looks at me like I am from another planet. He believes that the more lead you have in the air the better. He is not the best shot I have run across either, he needs to spend more range time (see above). The only time I would want a repeater is for dangerous game or for shooting people (self defense).

petemi · « **Reply #7 on:** September 02, 2008, 10:42:10 PM »

I agree with everything previously said. The main thing is to be comfortable with your rifle. On the recoil/flinch topic, I put a synthetic stock on my Handi '06, put 36 ounces of #4 shot in a sock and packed it in the stock. Now it recoils about the same as my 7mm-08. It balances better, but it is heavier. I don't know if I'd want to tote it over mountains, but that isn't an issue where I live.

I went with the .45-70 and have absolutely no regrets. It's one rifle I'll never part with.

mitchell · « **Reply #8 on:** September 03, 2008, 02:58:08 AM »

you should be able to pick up your rifle and shoot a soft ball at what ever range you think you can kill a deer ,if you can only do it at 200 then that is your limet , your rifle will always be able to kill deer farther then you can .

tune your rifle on a bench until it can't get any better (.5 MOA is my personal standard) then move to shooting in field postions. i use a bipod and shoot from the prone a lot in the field and on a bipod with everything right i know i can hit a soft ball everytime at 400 yards , but i shoot at 400-700 a lot with my handis , and i know my rifles well enough now that i know where my bullet will hit . so the farthest you know that with out a doubt you can make a hit , thats you personal max range.

FYI my farthest deer ever was with a handi 308 at 700+ and she dropped where she was standing, that gun shot in the .2's on a bipod

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #9 on:** September 03, 2008, 04:45:59 AM »

There is really nothing I can add to the great advice already given except when the kill pictures are taken make sure the Handi is displayed as proudly as the animal is. You will also notice the gun snobs won't have any where near as big a grin on thier faces as is on yours. Kurt

GoodOlBoy · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2008, 06:18:44 AM »

You spend as much time at the range as it takes. Don't just shoot sitting. Shoot standing, shoot from the ground (if possible at some ranges you can't get on the ground without getting thrown out) etc. When you lift the rifle, fire the rifle, and hit your mark without having to think about it, plan it, and compensate for the shakes then you are ready to go IMHO. One thing though. If you are using a scoped gun, and you have to keep adjusting to keep it on target then you may be ready but the gun isn't. Make sure you don't have to constantly tweak it to keep it on target. And for the love of all that is good and holy shoot it in with the same ammo you are going to hunt with. I usually finalize my range trip by giving my gun a good cleaning and then firing one last round through it to make sure it still hits where I want it to with one shot after cleaning. When I get home I clean it again and put it up. If the scope gets bumped around I go back to the range before I got to the stand. Maybe thats why I am an iron sight guy more than a scope guy, I dunno.

Anyway the main thing is being comfortable with yourself and your gun. When you know yourself, and you know your gun you have taken the two biggest factors out of the equation. Then if you make a lousy shot, and you know you and the gun did everything you could do you don't have heartbreak over it. Either it was the ammo, or the enviroment. One you can change for next time, one you probably can't.

Good luck,and good hunting. By the way just ignore the naysayers. Why should you care how many rounds you have in the gun. The first one is the only one that counts. You are trying to cleanly kill a game animal, not spray a room full of terrorists with a uzi.

my 2 cents

GoodOlBoy

teddy12b · « **Reply #11 on:** September 03, 2008, 06:41:56 AM »

I’m with everyone else saying to shoot until you are comfortable and have confidence in your shots. I started out with a H&R Handi 30-06 and wish I still had it. It’s a great gun and one heck of a hunting rifle. After I sold my handi I ended up buying an encore 30-06 some time later because I love hunting with a single shot rifle.

I believe in shooting as much at the range as you can and try to shoot the smallest groups you can from the bench. Then stand up, kneel, and lay down to shoot like everyone said. Something else, max out how many pushups you can (or something to get your heart rate up) and then get up and take a shot from a hunting position. When you’re good to go with that, you’re ready to shoot at something.

With a 30-06 I’ve shot targets at 1000 yards and also missed a deer at 100 yards. The best shots in the world have and will miss deer, but practice makes perfect. Good luck on your hunts and definitely show off that handi rifle in your pictures.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 03, 2008, 05:14:06 PM »

I've never quite understood what some people have against single shots. If you need six shots to kill a deer you shouldn't be hunting. Practice til you KNOW what range you can hit the breadbasket at and don't shoot beyond it. I also use snap caps to let me just work on bringing it to my shoulder and pulling back the hammer quietly. I will sit at home and draw the hammer back and raise to the shoulder smoothly over and over.

wgr · « **Reply #13 on:** September 03, 2008, 05:39:50 PM »

lost of great advice. just shoot as much as you can and don't be afraid to ask for help. i been shooting for 51 years and still learn i hunt here in Indiana with a muzzle loader only and i have never felt out gunned. one shot make it count good luck

Sourdough · « **Reply #14 on:** September 03, 2008, 10:38:08 PM »

I'll try this again, my post got lost somewhere.

Range time is what makes you familure with your gun. How it works and how it shoots. I don't measure groups, I shoot 4" clay targets. If I bust the target I consider it a hit. I practice till I make a hit every time first shot, from 50 to 300 or 400 yards. Some of my guns are sighted in for 400 yard zeros. Yes you might be planning to hunt an area where the shots will only be 80 to 100 yards, so you only need to practice shooting at 100 yards. this is true, and in most cases you will do good, and save a lot of work and practice. But what happens when you are standing talking to the farmer, and he spots a deer crossing a fence line, or field, 200 or 250 yards out.

For 400 to 500 yards I use two liter soda bottles filled with water. 600 to 800 yards I use 1 gal milk jugs filled with water.

Good luck, Rog

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #15 on:** September 04, 2008, 01:16:15 AM »

Sometimes that 8" target gets kinda small when the "Buck Fever" sets in and you hands start rattling....

mitchell · « **Reply #16 on:** September 04, 2008, 02:13:48 AM »

Quote from: STUMPJMPR on September 04, 2008, 01:16:15 AM

Sometimes that 8" target gets kinda small when the "Buck Fever" sets in and you hands start rattling....

learn to control your heart rate and breathe. start running . when i started running everyday i watched my groups get tighter. put stress shooting into your range plan , pump out some pushups and 100 dash then pick up your rifle and see what you can hit. it will be humbleing.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #17 on:** September 04, 2008, 03:20:00 AM »

Quote from: mitchell on September 04, 2008, 02:13:48 AM

Quote from: STUMPJMPR on September 04, 2008, 01:16:15 AM
Sometimes that 8" target gets kinda small when the "Buck Fever" sets in and you hands start rattling....
learn to control your heart rate and breathe. start running . when i started running everyday i watched my groups get tighter. put stress shooting into your range plan , pump out some pushups and 100 dash then pick up your rifle and see what you can hit. it will be humbleing.

Remembering to control your breathing in any situation is the key... I know for a long time, when I shot in the field, I would find myself holding my breath or breathing heavy, I knew better but caught myself doing it anyway. Once I forced myself to breath correctly before pulling the trigger, my hit ratios went through the roof

jmayton · « **Reply #18 on:** September 04, 2008, 04:08:40 AM »

I think everyone has given terrific advice...positions, breathing, comfortable with your gun...etc. I'll add this though, I know an older (and much wiser) hunter who was a gunsmith and guide in Colorado and Texas. Having hunted all the game in North America he told me that he can count on two hands the number of times he has taken an animal at a range farther than 100yds. I'm just a young buck, but from the half dozen deer and 50+ hogs I've killed, only two have been farther than 100yds. This is in central Texas where you can make some long shots if you want to. That doesn't mean that I don't practice at longer ranges because if the opportunity presents itself, I want to be ready. I do all my sighting in at 100, but will practice often at 200 out to 400 just to know that I can do it and to know how those particular bullets are flying. As for practical accuracy, my Handi is very good (.75 moa), but I have a Mosin Nagant that groups about 2 moa. But I can hit an 8" circle at 200 offhand with it with a cold bore shot. So it doesn't have to be an extremely accurate rifle to do the job...as long as you do yours. Keep practicing and best of luck.

mitchell · « **Reply #19 on:** September 04, 2008, 01:10:34 PM »

well dude yes and no. it all comes with your style of hunting. i've killed close to 300 deer (did a little state work) i've got 8 with a bow a few more with a muzzle loader/ shotgun and the rest with rifle's and thinking back i'll bet that only 20-30 of them where within 100 yards with most being between 300-400 yards . like i said it all in your style of hunting i like to stalk deer in open country , i love it , it puts all your skills to the test and not being the most skilled stalker more times then i not i have to take a longer shot. it all comes down to style

jmayton · « **Reply #20 on:** September 05, 2008, 06:23:30 AM »

mitchell, agreed that style, terrain, and experience make a difference. Also, if I could shoot like you, i'd be more willing to take those longer shots. i grew up shooting handguns and only recently started hunting and rifle shooting so my skills are not quite up there yet. I live in "The Deer Capital of Texas" and we have hunters from all over the country come here to hunt. Most of them shoot a box of ammo a year and have to have the blinds put 40-60yds from the feeder or they're likely to miss or would their quarry. So for myself and most newer hunters i think shots over 100yds should be avoided if possible. But if your skills and equipment are up to it, take the shot you feel comfortable with.

Tencubed · « **Reply #21 on:** September 05, 2008, 11:16:01 AM »

After I made my prior post to this thread I got to thinking about it and realized I had left a lot unsaid. Since I have been where computers ain't and just got back it was pleasing to note how many folks had responded and done, IMO, an excellent job of giving a new shooter some advice.

One thing we have all failed to mention is Don't Hurt Yourself while shooting at the range. It's very easy to get involved in the shooting and end up with a sore shoulder or cheek. Recoil from half a dozen rounds of most rifles won't bother the majority of shooters but trying to put a couple of boxes downrange can be punishing. No better way that I know of to develop a bad flinch than to hurt yourself while shooting. Switching to a 22 for practice of sight acquisition and developing the proper breathing techniques, I like to take a couple of deep breaths and let out about half of the last one, makes for a much more enjoyable day at the range. (Handyies are great because the 22's and centerfires all seem to fit pretty much the same.)

One other thing, familiarity with the rifle you hunt with. Get a set of snap caps and practice trigger pull and loading. You should be able to load that second shot without looking at the rifle.

As I said before, lot's of good advice and nice folks in this forum.

Mike

mitchell · « **Reply #22 on:** September 06, 2008, 05:21:18 AM »

Quote from: Tencubed on September 05, 2008, 11:16:01 AM

One other thing, familiarity with the rifle you hunt with. Get a set of snap caps and practice trigger pull and loading. You should be able to load that second shot without looking at the rifle.

an other good point , one thing i that i learned in the army and i do alot is dime/washer drills. it can be done in a handi too. just get a snap cap and washer out of your toolbox, get in the prone( i use a bipod) put the washet on the muzzel and see how many time you can pull the hammer and fire with the washer falling. greatest way to learn a trigger i know and it can be done at home all day for about a penny

teddy12b · « **Reply #23 on:** September 06, 2008, 07:04:15 AM »

Quote from: mitchell on September 06, 2008, 05:21:18 AM

Quote from: Tencubed on September 05, 2008, 11:16:01 AM

One other thing, familiarity with the rifle you hunt with. Get a set of snap caps and practice trigger pull and loading. You should be able to load that second shot without looking at the rifle.

an other good point , one thing i that i learned in the army and i do alot is dime/washer drills. it can be done in a handi too. just get a snap cap and washer out of your toolbox, get in the prone( i use a bipod) put the washet on the muzzel and see how many time you can pull the hammer and fire with the washer falling. greatest way to learn a trigger i know and it can be done at home all day for about a penny

I remember that training in Basic and it really does work. Excellent suggestion!

jmayton · « **Reply #24 on:** September 06, 2008, 01:13:36 PM »

Quote from: mitchell on September 06, 2008, 05:21:18 AM

an other good point , one thing i that i learned in the army and i do alot is dime/washer drills. it can be done in a handi too. just get a snap cap and washer out of your toolbox, get in the prone( i use a bipod) put the washet on the muzzel and see how many time you can pull the hammer and fire with the washer falling. greatest way to learn a trigger i know and it can be done at home all day for about a penny

i'm going to have to try that.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 06, 2008, 04:29:59 PM »

That is a good technique. Definitely one for the bag a tricks.