new 30-30 ammo

[Inrut24/7]

I just saw in the new cabelas catolog that i got today that winchester has a new 150 grain ballistic silver tip load for the 30-30, this might be a good load for the handis, but i do wonder if the box has a warning about using them in lever actions.

[quickdtoo]

It's a blunt BST.

Tim

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrdetail.aspx?symbol=SBST3030&cart=MzAtMzAgV2luY2hlc3Rlcg==

[FLNT4EVR]

At the price Winchester is asking ,I can get 4 boxes of Rem Core locked when outfits like Dicks and Wally world  put them on sale.

[petemi]

I've shot probably 250 170 gr. Remingtons through my Marlin 336, two of them at deer, the rest through paper.  They kill paper beautifully, but failed miserably on the deer, both shot through the boiler room.  The first went almost a quarter mile and was killed, stumbling, by another hunter.  The second was shot as a blizzard was moving in and I couldn't wait for it to lay up because of snow cover.  The storm got so bad so quickly the blood and tracks were covered.  I did a couple of large figure eights looking for it before I had to give up, afraid of being disorientated.  The next morning, I followed the crows and ravens and found the deer more than 300 yards from where it was shot, half eaten by coyotes.

I've used 170 gr. Winchester silvertips in that same rifle for all of 50 years.  I never lost one out of at least 35 deer, and I don't ever remember having to use a second shot.  The first deer I killed with that rifle and the Silvertips was an open sight head shot at 168 paces at age 17.  The second, the same day, was 225 yards known distance between fence lines.  Hit in the heart lungs, it went 50 yards pumping blood out both sides, jumped a stone fence and was dead on the other side.  The snow looked as if you had taken a 5 gallon bucket and poured blood across the field.  The Remington shot deer, shot through, left a fine spray of blood you might find here and there.  It has been my opinion, possibly incorect, that the Cor-Lokts don't open fast enough in the slow .30-30.  Friends of mine use them successfully in their '06s.

[STUMPJMPR]

Sorry to here that petemi....I have had good luck with the core-lokts in 30-30.... every animal i ever shot died right there.... I have shot the silvertips but never at game.... They were both just as accurate but never could justify the price difference.... If i'm not mistaken the silvertip is a tougher bullet designed for deeper penetration as opposed to winchester's power point....

[petemi]

Sorry to here that petemi....I have had good luck with the core-lokts in 30-30.... every animal i ever shot died right there.... I have shot the silvertips but never at game.... They were both just as accurate but never could justify the price difference.... If i'm not mistaken the silvertip is a tougher bullet designed for deeper penetration as opposed to winchester's power point....

I'm glad you're home and hope all is going well.  I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking the Silvertip is a soft point.  All I can tell you it opens a big hole on the off side.

[Graybeard]

petemi you are in my opinion making some bad assumptions based on lack of data.

No deer shot thru both lungs or the heart is gonna run the distance you mention it just cannot happen. With a hole even from a .22LR solid thru both lungs they will bleed out and die far sooner than that. Any size hole thru the heart will do the same.

So no matter how convinced you are that your shot was

both shot through the boiler room.

that just simply cannot be the case. I know we all hate to admit we made a poor shot but nonetheless it does happen to all of us from time to time even if we refuse to admit it.

Your bullets for whatever reason did something else besides go thru the two lungs. A deer hit in only one lung can go an amazing distance with that one good lung but with a hole thru both they are normally down inside 200 yards and most times less. Same with a hole in the heart they just cannot go that far as they bleed out and the oxygen starvation to the brain puts them on the ground and there is nothing they can do about it.

I've seen so many such situations where the hunter was so certain the shot was good but it wasn't. In one we trailed a really nice buck all over creation one day following a decent blood trail but it was clear from the blood color it was not a lung hit. Another hunter found the deer and finished him off with a single shot to the neck. I personally examined the deer after it was field dressed and there was no hole in the chest cavity at all. The first shot broke the leg just below the chest but no bullet or bone fragments entered the chest. The only other hole was in the neck where the hunter killed it.

Myself and the guy I was with who hit it first and the other guy with us all examined it and agreed his shot would not have been fatal. The guy who killed it offered it up to the fellow who made the first shot if he felt it was really his deer and he declined admitting his shot was not a killing shot.

Then after they left with the deer he began having second thoughts cuz it was a truly fine wide heavy ten point rack on that deer. He talked himself into a frenzy over it and allowed as how that guy stole HIS deer and that it was definitely already laying on the ground dead when he put the bullet thru the neck just to pretent he killed it. I tried to protest and convince him he was in error but he'd have none of it.

He jumped in this truck and took off after them intend to taking it by force if necessary even at gun point. Luckily he never caught up as the confrontation likely would have gotten ugly.

What we think we did is not always what we really did.

Remington Core Loct bullets are NOT over hard they WILL NOT zip thru without opening and are in fact one of the softer bullets that definitely open wide if there is enough velocity left for any bullet to open at the range it hits. For a rifle like the .30-30 or any such standard non magnum round they are as good as any.

[LONGTOM]

I can't comment on the 30-30 ammo first hand having never tried them but can attest to the fact that my deceased brother used corelocks exclusively in his 53 vintage model 94 with excellent results. This was in the mid 50s to the early 70s. Don't know about the current crop of corelocks.

I used to use 150gr corelocks in my pre 64 model 70 in 270 for years back in the late 60s to mid 70s if I recall right with only two bad experiences.
One was a complete blow up of the bullet at about 70yds on a quartering towards me shot that hit the point of the shoulder.
Probably my fault for poor shot placement.
I was only eleven at the time,1969. WOW A LONG TIME AGO!!
The other was the same gun, same ammo at 80yds and again at the same deer at 60yds, yes he actually came closer to me after the first shot hit him in left shoulder.
Again quartering towards me. The second shot was placed at the same spot and he stood there as if he was never even shot.
I thought I had missed with both shots.
Lowered my sights and squeezed off another that hit the dirt below him.
At that point he took flight on a hard run.
The 4th shot was at about 160yds while he was still on a hard run.
I pulled out in front of him stopped and when he crossed the front bead I sent another his way.
That one did the trick, he was down.
That shot tore out his throat.
When we pulled the hide we found that the first two shots had hit within 1.75" of each other.
One bullet broke his shoulder but did not go through it.
The other was just under the hide on the same side as it had entered.
The point was smashed but no penetration.
At the time all shots sounded the same but at least one of the first two shots had to be under powered to have no pentration.
It was the 4th shot that put my first trophy on the wall.
A really nice 11pt dropped by a luck shot.
Switched to WINCHESTER SILVERTIPS and have never used REMINGTON on deer again.
I will say the old silvertips did do a lot of damage.
I don't know about the current crop of silvertips.
Will try them on deer this year in my 30-30 handy.
They shoot good.
Time will tell!


LONGTOM

[petemi]

Bill, both deer were well hit by lung shots, displayed a tiny exit hole and sprayed frothy pinkish blood in small quantities from both sides.  The Rems poked a pencil hole through them. I saw both deer and know where the bullet went.  It definitely killed them, but not soon enough.  I'll go along with Longtom and stick with my Winchesters.

All I can relate is what happened.

As a side note, I've shot about a dozen deer with .308 168 gr. Winchester Ballistic Silvertips.  All but one died within 10 feet, the one went 75 yards with its heart shot out and a shoulder broken.

[STUMPJMPR]

Everyone has their opinion...Once a bullet fails for you its hard to regain trust in it.... I have had the CoreLokts fail in .270 win... It could have been shooter error or bullet failure... The deer was killed a week later he was hit kind of low but we found the jacket in the shoulder on the far side.... As far as the 30-30 corelokts go i have killed everything i have ever shot with them.... I use what i feel comfortable with as we all should...

[coyotejoe]

Well, just to venture an opinion here, I feel the almost universally recommended 170 grain bullet for the 30/30 is really a poor choice for deer.  I much prefer the 150s or even 130s. Heavier bullets are intended for deeper penetration but when 150s pass through and keep on going how much more penetration can one use? I feel that the use of 170 grain bullets ON DEER is just sacrificing velocity, expansion and shock for the sake of penetration which isn't needed on deer, maybe on elk or moose, maybe.

[petemi]

Well, just to venture an opinion here, I feel the almost universally recommended 170 grain bullet for the 30/30 is really a poor choice for deer.  I much prefer the 150s or even 130s. Heavier bullets are intended for deeper penetration but when 150s pass through and keep on going how much more penetration can one use? I feel that the use of 170 grain bullets ON DEER is just sacrificing velocity, expansion and shock for the sake of penetration which isn't needed on deer, maybe on elk or moose, maybe.

I can't argue with your reasoning, it is logical.  However, 50 years of success on whitetails with 170 gr. .30-30s and 168 gr. .308s offsets that by a bit.  Last December, I took a nice buck with a 470 gr. Maxi Hunter and 100 gr. of Tripple 7.  He was a Bang Flop kill.  Was the 470 Maxi overkill?? Perhaps, but it did the job.  I use the lighter loads for DISTANCE AND TRAJECTORY, not expansion, shock or velocity.

Another thought, ask anyone here hunting deer with .45-70 Handis how many wounded deer they have chased.  Not many, if any, I think.  They're all pretty good hunters and kill cleanly.

I think if you look at ballistic tables you'll find that larger bullets at lower velocity deliver more energy at short range POI than lighter, faster bullets.

[Mike Britton]

Gotta throw my chips in here. I've downed a few coyotes with the 170 gr. Silvertip .30-30, and they looked like HUBCAPS when we dug them out!
Usually on the inside of the off side of the hide. Most shots within 200

[petemi]

The first Michigan deer I killed was a six point, shot through and breaking both shoulders broadside.  The .30-30 170 gr. Silvertip was laying up against the hide on the off side and fell to the ground when I was skinning him.  I guess that suggests two questions:

1.  How much more penetration can one use?

2.  Where do armor plated coyotes live?  The ones around here usually die from a sudden pass through of lead, small hole one side, big on the other.  I have never recovered a bullet from a coyote.

[Mike Britton]

Petemi, I guess you're a better shot than I am.

[petemi]

Petemi, I guess you're a better shot than I am.

Mike, I'm not trying to provoke a hassle.  A few years back I heard the chickens acting nervous at about eleven at night.  I picked up the 10-22, snapped on the flood lights, and shot a coyote in the face at about 50 feet with a solid CCI.  When I skinned her, I never found an exit hole.  I suspect the bullet was inside somewhere.  Also, I haven't the slightest idea how bullets passing through has anything to do with being a better shot.  IMHO a 170 gr. Silvertip shoud pass through 3 or 4 coyotes.

[Mike Britton]

No hassle here,Petemi. My feeble attempt at humor.
We managed to salvage two silvertips from 'yotes. I can appreciate your comment 'cuz coyotes are thin skinned like dogs, and up close a solid hit from a .22 really will bring them down, no prob.
I can't explain why, maybe it was longer than normal. It was 200 paces from the mobile home my Uncle lived in to the barn, and the two we got rounds from were JUST past the barn. Both shots from a 336 Marlin.
My cousin and I jumped two of them inside the barn one morning and dispatched them both with our 1911.45s. Scared the bajeebbers out of me!!
You are very right in the fact that a LOT of dead coyotes were put down at 50 to 100 yards and the mess on the off side is impressive.
The one thing I do know is that if there is such a thing as reincarnation my first act in my next life will be ducking rounds.

[petemi]

Mike, I love the idea of swatting coyotes with a 1911!  I shot on the pistol team at Naval Air Station Cecil Field, FL in the early sixties.  The team captain, Larry Hart, a guy I worked with, invited me to dinner one day.  We were barbecuing in the back yard, when his wife jumped up ducked inside and came back out with a 1911.  KAPOWWWW   There was a little drainage ditch about 75 or eighty feet behind the porch.  She had spotted a 4 foot cottonmouth and took its head off with one shot.

[Mike Britton]

Mike, I love the idea of swatting coyotes with a 1911!  I shot on the pistol team at Naval Air Station Cecil Field, FL in the early sixties.  The team captain, Larry Hart, a guy I worked with, invited me to dinner one day.  We were barbecuing in the back yard, when his wife jumped up ducked inside and came back out with a 1911.  KAPOWWWW   There was a little drainage ditch about 75 or eighty feet behind the porch.  She had spotted a 4 foot cottonmouth and took its head off with one shot.

Geeze, I'd kill for eyes like that!!
My Uncle taught a .45 1911 course while he was in Berlin as part of the constabulary force following the war.
When my cousin and I were little tykes he took us aside and taught us the 1911. He thought the 1911 was the best combat handgun ever designed, and I agree.
I'm left handed, and Britt took the time to teach me to use the pistol with both hands, using the first and second fingers of my left hand to work the slide stop and mag release. At one time there were six 1911's in the family.
I still have the '42 Colt that came back in a duffel the same day I was born.
I have a ton of handguns, and I'm really partial to my 71/2" new Service Colts, but if I could only have one it would be the ".45"
I was about 16 or so when Gary and I spied those coyotes slipping into the barn. Gary says "we'll catch 'em in the doorway" That was all well and good until the coyotes realized they were there. They were on their way out the door of the barn wether we were there or not!!
To a sixteen year old city kid that gets to go to the country maybe once or so a month this thing was the size of bigfoot!! I spent about half of my magazine, and hit my coyote only once, but that was it. Show over.