Author Topic: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?  (Read 6727 times)

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Offline rickt300

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Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« on: September 05, 2008, 12:03:29 PM »
I have used my 30-06 on plenty of deer but feel it is much more gun than needed for the job. Anyone else feel this way?
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2008, 01:01:18 PM »
"The heaviest whitetail ever taken was a buck shot by Carl Lenandor in 1926 in Minnesota. It had a dressed weight of 405 lbs, and was conservatively estimated to have a 500 lb live weight."

It's better have it and not need, it than to need it and not have it.

With bullet weights from 110 to 220 grains.  The .30-06 can be whatever you need it to be.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline burntmuch

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2008, 01:22:49 PM »
Never seen Too dead, You could get by with less, But why

 Can you imagine a 500 lb whitetail :o :o :o :o
I dont care what gun Im using as long as Im hunting

Offline BRL

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2008, 01:31:17 PM »
I really like that "Managed Recoil" ammo from Remington. Federal makes one too. A day at the range is quite enjoyable with that load. They water down the load to be similar to that of a .30-30. Remington uses a bullet weight of 125 grains and I think Federal's is 170 grain. Now you have two guns in one. A short range deer rifle with the Managed Recoil ammo and a standard - long range rifle with standard loads.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2008, 01:33:17 PM »
Too much? No.

More than necessary? Yes.


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Offline Mike Britton

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2008, 01:48:08 PM »
I really like that "Managed Recoil" ammo from Remington. Federal makes one too. A day at the range is quite enjoyable with that load. They water down the load to be similar to that of a .30-30. Remington uses a bullet weight of 125 grains and I think Federal's is 170 grain. Now you have two guns in one. A short range deer rifle with the Managed Recoil ammo and a standard - long range rifle with standard loads.
BRL, can I buy these loads anywhere?
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Offline rickt300

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2008, 03:39:20 PM »
Recoil isn't really an issue but massive destruction caused by full power reloads and factory loads is.  I have come to the conclusion that my 7x57 which I push a 150 grain bullet to 2700 fps is just about perfect for deer. I could load my old favorite 30-06 down a bit to this level easily or as I have been doing use heavier bullets at standard velocities. This approach also seems overkill on deer weighing less than 200 pounds at ranges less than 150 yards.
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2008, 06:07:40 PM »
I have used my 30-06 on plenty of deer but feel it is much more gun than needed for the job. Anyone else feel this way?

Now boy, it's midnight here on a Friday night and I'm 18 beers into a 12 pack, and you go askin a question like this!!!   ::)  You might just as well said the 243 is a little less gun then needed for the job!   :-\  Let's see if you can still eat corn on the cob in a couple days and I'll speak my piece on the 30/06...  ;D
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Offline Dave in WV

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2008, 03:58:56 AM »
Yes, the 30-06 is too much and the .243 is too little. There are very few cartridges that are correct for hunting deer.  ;)  ;D  Seriously, IMHO there's no such thing as too much as long as the bullets you use work. A .458 mag with solids will work but the 30-06 with proper cup and core bullets will work better over all.
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Offline Masterblaster1

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2008, 05:09:59 AM »
I would say a 30-06  is a great round for someone who doesn't mind alot of bloodshot meat. I shoot a .280 Remington and with loads over 2600 FPS bloodshot meat increases by a bunch. Thats why I like my .44 magnum. Far less ruined meat. Oh and my favorite .280 load pushes a 175 grain hornady interlock spire point to around 2600 maybe a bit less, and cuts down on meat loss. Another way to save meat is only take behind the shoulder lung shots, broadside. Raking shots and shoulder shots destroy alot of meat.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2008, 05:24:58 AM »
Most people don't eat the meat where the bullet passes through, so that seems like a non-issue.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline TCBrian

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2008, 07:57:16 AM »
I have shot 2 deer with the 30-06 and not one had a problem with bloodshot meat and both were dead instantly. One I shot in the neck with my elk loads of 180 grain Barnes X, the other with a 150  sierra game king through the ribs. Use the right bullet and make the right shots and there will be no bloodshot meat. The deer I have seen ruined the most, were all shot in the front shoulder, one by me with the 6.5x55 and the rest by others using all kinds of calibers from the 30-30 and 243 up to 300 win mag. If you shoot a deer in the shoulder and hit bone, you are ruining meat, no matter what cartridge and bullet combo you use.

Funny thing, I am shopping coues deer guides right now and they all tell me the 30-06 is not flat enough. I have assured them that I know my my gun and it will be fine. The 06 is only about 5" less flat at 400 yards than a 300 mag, making it plenty of gun for any deer out to that distance. Still, no deer is too dead. I usually use something else for deer, but never felt the 30-06 is too much gun for deer.

Brian


Offline Swampman

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2008, 08:03:01 AM »
A good boattail hunting bullet can cut that drop by 1/3 easy.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Freezer

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2008, 08:18:11 AM »
   I've hand loaded reduced velocity rounds for friends for years.  As long as they site in and follow the ballistics charts they work fine.  The 06 has far more power than is needed but so do a lot of other deer calibers 300 win, 7mag, 45 70.  If you like your 06 try managed recoil loads or hand load so you can build custom ammo for your taste.  It's a fun hobby and you'll shoot more.
   I shoot 280 and 308 for deer.  Two different rifles for different locations and changing terrain.  I have gone full circle with my loads.  I used to like lite bullets and reduced recoil.  I now shoot heavier bullets and full loads because they can extend my range and hold tighter groups in my rifles.  I will own a 6.5 x 55 someday.  That, 260 and 257 Roberts offer the best combo for flat trajectory, lite recoil and are still enough cartridge for deer.

Offline BRL

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2008, 09:50:58 AM »
Mike,

I've been able to find "Managed Recoil" loads in all gun shops that I've been in. Bass Pro Shop and Cabela's has them. But, I usually order them from Midway USA's website. Midway has both Remington and Federal loads and they have good sales. When they have an ammo sale, I usually buy a large quantity of all my ammo there. 

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Offline Land_Owner

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2008, 04:07:26 AM »
Not one person, till now, has suggested that if a gun "fits" you and "suits" you, then use it with confidence.  Your confidence in using the weapon of choice solves MOST of your problems.  Aim small - miss small. 

Your local hunting regs tell you what can't be used.  Everything else is "enough" in the hands of a confident shooter.  There is no means by which to evaluate whether a deer is "Too dead" (ref: burntmuch).

Correct bullet, faster/slower velocity, shot placement, recoil, hand loads v. factory, eating corn on the cob, etc. are AFTER-THE-FACT considerations (good one ATLAW - LOL  ;D).

Offline buck460XVR

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2008, 06:33:23 AM »
I would say a 30-06  is a great round for someone who doesn't mind alot of bloodshot meat.

from my experience when hit in the correct spot, a '06 will destroy not much more GOOD eating meat than a arrow from a compound bow. Again, that's my experience. Even then, considering that the average hunter spends $2000** a year to enjoy their 18 days in the woods, a coupla dollars worth of blood meat from a successful hunt is really quite trivial. As responsible hunters we should respect our quarry enough to assure them a quick and humane death....and the '06 does that and does it well. Is it overkill, maybe, but not by much. A friend of mine runs the sporting goods dept at Wallyworld here where I live. It's in the west central district of Wisconsin.... the middle of deer central. He says that they sell twice as many boxes of '06 ammo than all of the other deer cartridges combined. Goes without sayin'....."if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Funny how so many are still searching for that elusive "perfect deer cartridge"......hate to say it, but with all the variables involved with deer hunting, there never will be one perfect round for every deer hunter and every deer hunting situation. Do the best with what you have and make the most of your opportunities. Make a good shot and cherish the memories......that's what hunting deer is all about. Don't waste the time  worrying if the hole you made is too big. 


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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2008, 07:12:19 AM »
The variables are so great in the country I hunt in one day the 30-06, or calibers of similar case capacity make a good fit.  I have a great little scoped Marlin 30-30 that spends most seasons forgotten.  Last fall was an exception because I spent a few days hunting an Oak, Pine, and brush covered area that was idea for the shorter, lighter Marlin.  On day three I found myself in a series of browse ways that showed a concentration of tracks, and pellets.
 

I checked out a few vantage points and used my Nikon 800 rangefinder to deer determined the maximum range.  I realized that the chance of a shot at 160-to-200 yards could present itself.  These narrow browse ways presented the deer the opportunity to enjoy young, tender vittles and immediate escapes cover.  I felt that I needed a little more rifle, and a better scope for long range shooting, and stopping power.

Another issue was a series of cliffs off one side of the area, if a wounded deer made it to that area it could easily drop off a cliff and be lost.  A deer and bear trail snaked downslope between the drop offs. 

That night the Marlin was cleaned up and put away for the season, but not forgotten.  My old favorite Remington 760 in .270 Winchester was brought out, with its 3x9 power Burris scope.  While not a 30-06 I considered it close enough to do the job, and the 3x9 power scope over the 4x scope on the Marlin provided a number of advantages. 

I like the 30-30 Marlin, and it has proven adequate on deer for years.  With its 4X scope, it is handy when creeping around in heavy cover, and it is a good shooter.  It has a niche in the scheme of things, and a better fit when hunting heavy cover for deer then a longer, heavier magnum, or 30-06 class cartridge depending on the action type.

The old Remington 760 and 7600 series help bridge the gap between the short-range rifle and the long-range rifle.  I have seen a lot of deer taken with the two mention models in a variety of calibers.  Back in the day when California deer herds were in a boom cycle, and I was validating a lot of deer tags the Remington 760 in 30-06 was the most common of the Model 760 rifles.

I no longer have a 30-06, but I never felt over gunned with it.  As a hunter I feel I have the duty to make clean kills.  I also have enough field experience to know that there is a big difference between a killing shot, and a shot that quickly kills and puts game down.

We all know that a lesser gun will do the job.  I admired a neighbor who hunted mule deer in an area covered with lava ridges, and huge Mountain Mahogany.  He always collected mules.  The most outstanding was a large Western count 6x6 or 14-point if you live on the other side of the Rockies.  Live weight of the deer must have been over 300-pounds because it made 196-pounds minus it’s gut and lungs.  The buck was moving away from the hunter between 50 and 100-yards.  The hunter quickly put five rounds behind the shoulder bringing the buck down, with the old Remington Model 141, in 30 Remington. The nicely mushroomed bullets were found on the far side. 

This low power round did the job, because this expert hunter, had quickly place multiple rounds behind the shoulder of the deer. 

I was impressed with the nicely mushroomed bullets recovered from the deer, but I would have been more impressed with an exit hole(s) on the far side.  In my opinion the damage done by the five, 150-grain bullets was equivalent to the damage done by a high velocity 150-grain bullet from a 30-06.  The hunter was fortunate to have been in the position to see the buck, and be able to put additional rounds into it.

Last years buck did not fall to a 30-30, 270 Winchester or a 30-06.  It fell to a .300 Savage, with a handloaded 165-grain bullet, pushed to 2670 fps.  I was prepared for the long shot, but it came at about 50-yards.  The 30-30 would have done the job.




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Offline Swampman

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2008, 08:18:35 AM »
"......hate to say it, but with all the variables involved with deer hunting, there never will be one perfect round for every deer hunter and every deer hunting situation."

I believe the .30-06 is as close to it as you can get.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2008, 09:14:54 AM »
If'n it ain't a 7-08, it's wrong, wrong, wrong. In documented case after case, it has been proven that the 30-06 kills the average deer much too dead. ;)

Offline rickt300

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2008, 10:43:31 AM »
I went out and shot some paper with a recently tuned up Model 670. The result wasn't all that ugly, it put five 150 grain Federal High Shoks into 1 1/4 inch and the holes were rather neat if I say so not messy or anything.  I agree that the perfect rifle only exists for the perfect situation.  I am considering another trip to the range with some loads in the aforementioned range, 150 grains at 2700 fps or just leave things as they are and use the rifle as a loaner with the factory shells. Ya'll are right about there being no "too dead" as far as deer are concerned.
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Offline SharonAnne

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2008, 07:01:18 AM »
for whitetails I like the 6.5x55 or its modern iteration the .260 Remington. It will handle all sizes of American deer. Even the misnamed Moose. In Europe they call it Elk, and they had it first. The 6.5x55 is considered THE Elk cartridge in Finland.

Our 'elk' is properly the Wapiti.

Having said all that, the .30-06 is NOT too much gun for deer. IMO

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Offline elmer

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2008, 03:59:42 PM »
Too much blood shot meat?

My experience is that my 30-06 with 165 Corelokts does much less damage than my 7mm-08 with Winchester Supreme Ballistic Tips. Next time at the range I am going to try Corelokts in the 7mm-08. If it likes them then I will try that round this year.
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Offline Savage .250

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2008, 03:05:01 AM »
Carried an "06" around for years and it was/is a great round.  Shot a lot of deer with it
  but it seemed to get heavier as the years went by so I switched to a Sav 99 in 300 cal.
   Still have a great round, carries nice and feels lighter.  Mission accomplished.   :)
   
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Offline teddy12b

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2008, 04:31:56 AM »
I’ve shot more deer with a camera than a gun, and I’ve only killed two deer in my life so far.  Both with a 30-06 encore using factory Remington 150gr corelokt ammo.  First deer was a doe and a perfect broadside shot behind the shoulder around 50 – 75 yards away.  She sat right down looked around for a few seconds and passed away.  Second deer was a young 8pt buck quartering away about 75 – 100 yards away.  Shot was in the shoulder and he ran up a hill, then flopped over dead within 50 yards and in my sight.

I like the 30-06 because you can shoot 100gr to 220gr.  I picked the 150gr bullets because that ammo shot the best in my rifle.  Load however you want to or buy whatever power you want.

I haven’t shot enough deer to be any kind of an expert, but 30-06 worked for me.  One dropped right there and the other ran a little ways, but it worked both times.

Offline rickt300

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2008, 05:15:08 AM »
When I lived in Wyoming the 30-06 was my only rifle for 12 years and it took all manner of game from jackrabbits to elk. It seemed most of my shots were between 150 and 250 yards. I used the 150 grain Speer spitzer Hotcor for deer and a couple of elk and then started using the 180 grain Hotcor for everything. It wasn't too much for mule deer out a little ways and it was just right for elk. Living in Texas where a long shot might be 150 yards and generally under 75 the smaller deer do go down right quick when a 165 grain Sierra BTHP started at 2800 fps hits em.  I still have ammo loaded from the mid nineties for my 30-06 that if it was all I shot could carry me thru the next 5 years of hunting.
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Offline dks7895

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2009, 10:42:27 AM »
Graybeard hit the nail on the head.  The best choice is the rifle you are confident shooting.  In the state of Missouri you can use any centerfire caliber.  Semi-autos can have a max of 10 round magazine.  I have taken deer with a 223 Rem, 30-30 Win, 35 Rem, 270 Win...I hope to take one in November with 308 Win. 

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Offline 1sourdough

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2009, 12:21:59 AM »
 I've been a '308 guy' for 20+ years. It was hard to ever consider another round for deer. I went on an anterless only hunt a few days ago. I took my Classic Compact Mod 70 243 which I checked the zero recently. It's a joy to carry & deal with in a tight tree stand. I got one close vertical shot. The 95 grn partition entered the top & out the bottom taking the top of the heart on the way. In some areas I may still carry a 308 or my 284 win but with the proper shot & bullet I think I can be happy with a light 243.
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Offline Big Nasty

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2009, 03:35:30 AM »
I prefer the 375 H&H magnum for my whitetail needs. Well if you need a 30-06 you might as well go all the way. I don't understand why so many are against the .243. Too many people think too small, to much bullet drop, what ever. The first question you need to ask yourself is, can you and do you intend to make 3 and 4oo yard shot as many people think they can but can't. Ya they can pull the trigger for those distances but can they hit anything. If a .243 isn't good for deer than what is it good for. The .243 is way too much for coyotes and too small for deer, I guess the .243 needs to be extinct. Grey Beard said it best what are you comfortable with, and what are your needs for the animals you hunt. My house uses a .243 and a .308 the reason is that we can hunt deer/.243 or go to Colorado and hunt elk/.308 and yes we use the 308 for whitetail from time to time. The .308 is perfect for the plains states for hunting anything within a days drive.
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Offline Blue Duck

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Re: Is the 30-06 too much gun for average deer?
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2009, 04:23:48 AM »
Too much? No.

More than necessary? Yes.

Pretty much right on.  Depends on the situation,  but it covers it all.